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Intergalactic Summit

 
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Blue on blue attacks - Diana Kim, Pyre Falcon, The Republic, The Federation

First post
Author
Stitcher
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#301 - 2013-08-13 15:42:41 UTC
well as a rule of thumb, if a great many vehicles are driving towards you, sounding their alarms and flashing their lights, then you are probably on the wrong side of the road.

A similar principle can, I think, be applied to being called a traitor. If the overwhelming majority of your peers who are loyal to the State are saying "you are a traitor" then it's time to start taking that suggestion seriously.

That's not to say it's automatically true, of course. Only to say that you need to have some damn good arguments ready to justify yourself in that situation.

AKA Hambone

Author of The Deathworlders

Alex Etolle
Shadowfire Exploration and Security
#302 - 2013-08-13 15:57:38 UTC
Stitcher wrote:
well as a rule of thumb, if a great many vehicles are driving towards you, sounding their alarms and flashing their lights, then you are probably on the wrong side of the road.

A similar principle can, I think, be applied to being called a traitor. If the overwhelming majority of your peers who are loyal to the State are saying "you are a traitor" then it's time to start taking that suggestion seriously.

That's not to say it's automatically true, of course. Only to say that you need to have some damn good arguments ready to justify yourself in that situation.


and she doesn't... I can't help but wonder if Kim has some sort of obsessive crush on Heth. Would explain why she refuses to see reason. I've seen it all too often in Gallente society and Capsuleer fangirls... which makes me nervous I'll be stalked when i start baselining in Gallente space. *shudders*
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#303 - 2013-08-13 18:42:40 UTC
Veikitamo Gesakaarin wrote:
Anslo wrote:

Can I get a hug?


You are not kirjuun.

However if you were, you simply do as any of my kirjuun and walk into my office and stand atop the entry [Delete: trapdoor] to the hugs room [Delete: Slaver hound pit] then I push the button and down you slide to enjoy the attentions of Corporate Hugs Specialists. [Delete: Rabid and starving Slaver Hounds]


I always enjoy getting summoned to Veikitamo's office to play with her puppies.

What?

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#304 - 2013-08-13 18:44:47 UTC
Scherezad wrote:
I do have a somewhat serious question. Maybe it's more of a riddle. It is directed at no one in specific.

How would you know if you were a traitor to the State you love? What things would inform you of this?


I suppose the fact that I believe the CEP should be overturned, the Megas nationalised, all the CEOS imprisoned, all the Caldari Loyalist Capsuleers arrested / executed for treason and so on would be the big clue.

Hint: If you hate everything about the State, you might not be a State Loyalist anymore?

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Caellach Marellus
Stormcrows
#305 - 2013-08-13 19:00:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Caellach Marellus
Not being a loyalist doesn't necessarily make you a traitor.

I'm not a traitor to the Federation, I strongly disagree with the path it has taken and the men who run it. I believe it's a far cry from the ideals which it was formed upon, ideals I'm very much loyal to.



Of course the above doesn't really apply to this scenario, but I just thought I'd throw that tidbit in.

When your gut instincts tell you something is wrong, trust them. When your heart tells you something is right, ignore it, check with your brain first. Accept nothing, challenge everything.

Katarina Musana
Clan Leshya Offworld Venture Enterprise
#306 - 2013-08-13 19:43:42 UTC
Veikitamo Gesakaarin wrote:
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:


I'm beginning to lose track of which of my kirjuun you're mad at now, Minmatart.


She does seem rather upset. Then again losing track might happen when your NeoCom browser is minimized by accident and you find yourself unable to respond as you wished.



I haven't the foggiest idea what you are referring to.


Quote:
How would you know if you were a traitor to the State you love? What things would inform you of this?


Unless you're deliberately betraying your State with the intention of being a traitor, I think it would be very difficult to know if you, yourself, are a traitor.

Even in that exception listed, you may well see yourself as not a real traitor, but merely being labelled a traitor because the State does not recognize what you see as necessary for the benefit of the State.

The ability to rationalize is both a boon and a curse.
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#307 - 2013-08-13 20:00:24 UTC
Scherezad wrote:
I do have a somewhat serious question. Maybe it's more of a riddle. It is directed at no one in specific.

How would you know if you were a traitor to the State you love? What things would inform you of this?

If you love the State, then it is almost impossible to be the traitor.
But generally, it is these things:

- lack of love to own State
- love to enemy
- close relations to someone from enemy side
- support of enemy ideas
- desire to make own State weaker
- or desire to make enemy stronger
- preventing own forces from damaging property of enemy
- or helping enemy forces to damage our property
- supporting enemy with either money or force
- making blue pacts with enemy

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#308 - 2013-08-13 20:01:17 UTC
Veikitamo Gesakaarin wrote:
Diana Kim wrote:

Logic? After that?
You don't have one, only insults.


I only insult delusional and sick Gallente Traitors like yourself who cannot get the logic of why the Federation must be destroyed!

Incorrect. That would be your person, not me.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#309 - 2013-08-13 20:02:52 UTC
Stitcher wrote:
well as a rule of thumb, if a great many vehicles are driving towards you, sounding their alarms and flashing their lights, then you are probably on the wrong side of the road.

A similar principle can, I think, be applied to being called a traitor. If the overwhelming majority of your peers who are loyal to the State are saying "you are a traitor" then it's time to start taking that suggestion seriously.

That's not to say it's automatically true, of course. Only to say that you need to have some damn good arguments ready to justify yourself in that situation.

This is quite primitive point of view, but I think it would work.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

iyammarrok
Drunken Beaver Mining
Gnawthority
#310 - 2013-08-13 20:04:49 UTC
Diana Kim wrote:
Scherezad wrote:
I do have a somewhat serious question. Maybe it's more of a riddle. It is directed at no one in specific.

How would you know if you were a traitor to the State you love? What things would inform you of this?

If you love the State, then it is almost impossible to be the traitor.
But generally, it is these things:

- lack of love to own State
- love to enemy
- close relations to someone from enemy side
- support of enemy ideas
- desire to make own State weaker
- or desire to make enemy stronger
- preventing own forces from damaging property of enemy
- or helping enemy forces to damage our property
- supporting enemy with either money or force
- making blue pacts with enemy



nopenope.. FAR too easy.
I shall leave this to others.

Not indicative of corporate policy unless otherwise stated.

Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#311 - 2013-08-13 20:08:33 UTC
Alex Etolle wrote:

and she doesn't... I can't help but wonder if Kim has some sort of obsessive crush on Heth. Would explain why she refuses to see reason. I've seen it all too often in Gallente society and Capsuleer fangirls... which makes me nervous I'll be stalked when i start baselining in Gallente space. *shudders*

Freaking gallente scum! Stop spreading already your filthy hedonistic lies!
I am Caldari officer! I am not allowed to have something like "obsessive crush" on Heth-haan!!

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#312 - 2013-08-13 20:19:01 UTC
Katarina Musana wrote:

I haven't the foggiest idea what you are referring to.

But do you have a froggiest idea maybe?
Ha-ha.
It is a joke.
You see, frog, froggiest.
Haha.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Alex Etolle
Shadowfire Exploration and Security
#313 - 2013-08-13 22:04:22 UTC
Diana Kim wrote:
Alex Etolle wrote:

and she doesn't... I can't help but wonder if Kim has some sort of obsessive crush on Heth. Would explain why she refuses to see reason. I've seen it all too often in Gallente society and Capsuleer fangirls... which makes me nervous I'll be stalked when i start baselining in Gallente space. *shudders*

Freaking gallente scum! Stop spreading already your filthy hedonistic lies!
I am Caldari officer! I am not allowed to have something like "obsessive crush" on Heth-haan!!


oooook.... even though I'm writing this just when I initiated warp to get away from God knows how many Serpentis destroyers, crusiers, and battlecruisers while doing recon,,, i didn't think you'd have that severe a reaction. Even though you'll most likely dismiss this as lies, I actually respect the Caldari. For pete's sale my superior in Shadowfire is a Caldari! and you're an Empyrean, as in so unbound that not even death can claim you. Sheesh, it was just a comment...
Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#314 - 2013-08-13 23:47:28 UTC
Protip: the reason she gets so angry is because it's uncomfortably close to the truth.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.

Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#315 - 2013-08-13 23:59:39 UTC
Alex Etolle wrote:
Diana Kim wrote:
Alex Etolle wrote:

and she doesn't... I can't help but wonder if Kim has some sort of obsessive crush on Heth. Would explain why she refuses to see reason. I've seen it all too often in Gallente society and Capsuleer fangirls... which makes me nervous I'll be stalked when i start baselining in Gallente space. *shudders*

Freaking gallente scum! Stop spreading already your filthy hedonistic lies!
I am Caldari officer! I am not allowed to have something like "obsessive crush" on Heth-haan!!


oooook.... even though I'm writing this just when I initiated warp to get away from God knows how many Serpentis destroyers, crusiers, and battlecruisers while doing recon,,, i didn't think you'd have that severe a reaction. Even though you'll most likely dismiss this as lies, I actually respect the Caldari. For pete's sale my superior in Shadowfire is a Caldari! and you're an Empyrean, as in so unbound that not even death can claim you. Sheesh, it was just a comment...

It was a stupid comment!
Don't comment with your comment like this!
Ever!

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Vikarion
Doomheim
#316 - 2013-08-14 00:41:15 UTC
Diana Kim wrote:
- lack of love to own State
- love to enemy

Well, you've certainly demonstrated this with your calls for the dissolution of the CEP, the nationalization of the Megas, and the condemnation of the Caldari Megacorporate leadership.

And you have the second one down pat as well, embracing the Gallente-spawned idea of nationalizing corporations for the benefit of a central federal government with a singular head. Hell, you're more Gallente on this than some Gallente - after all, many didn't want anything to do with this idea, seeing corporate independence as important. You know, one of those pesky Caldari ideas that lead to our original war for independence.

Diana Kim wrote:
- close relations to someone from enemy side
- support of enemy ideas

Such as Heth, a declared enemy of the State. As in, the CEP, the only legitimate representative of any Caldari, declared Heth to be an enemy of the Caldari State and the Caldari people.

And...like your support for nationalizing corporations?

Diana Kim wrote:
- desire to make own State weaker
- or desire to make enemy stronger

As you desire, insofar as you desire to bring back the most incompetent, ineffectual leader we've ever had, and, in the process, put the State under the boot heel of a declared enemy of the State.

Yes, you wish to make Heth, a declared enemy of the State, into the leader of the State. This would definitely make him stronger. It would also make the Gallente Federation stronger, seeing as Heth has proved to be utterly incompetent against them. Also, in trying to kill Pyre Falcon, you tried to remove one of the most effective Caldari militia forces from their campaign against the Gallente. Making the Gallente stronger.

Diana Kim wrote:
- preventing own forces from damaging property of enemy
- supporting enemy with either money or force
- or helping enemy forces to damage our property

Yes, as in your attempts to prevent Pyre Falcon from their usual task of fighting the Gallente on the war front.

Diana Kim wrote:
- making blue pacts with enemy

I don't know if you are blue towards Heth, a declared enemy of the State, but you certainly seem to have a bit of a crush on him. Friendly relations, at least.
Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#317 - 2013-08-14 01:49:56 UTC
Wow. So Vikarion and I are in pretty much complete accord about something. Kim really is a miracle worker.

I made this picture that I think neatly illustrates the effect at work here.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.

Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#318 - 2013-08-14 03:01:57 UTC
Vikarion wrote:
Diana Kim wrote:
- lack of love to own State
- love to enemy

Well, you've certainly demonstrated this with your calls for the dissolution of the CEP, the nationalization of the Megas, and the condemnation of the Caldari Megacorporate leadership.

Yes, I demonstrate that I love the State quite often, both with words and actions.
As for condemnation of certain corporation leadership, it is exactly because it loved enemy so much, to come to them on their kneed to beg for access to the planet.
He disgraced himself, his own corporation and whole State with such indecent move.

Vikarion wrote:

And you have the second one down pat as well, embracing the Gallente-spawned idea of nationalizing corporations for the benefit of a central federal government with a singular head. Hell, you're more Gallente on this than some Gallente - after all, many didn't want anything to do with this idea, seeing corporate independence as important. You know, one of those pesky Caldari ideas that lead to our original war for independence.

Are YOU sick, man? I never embrased anything gallentean.
YOU left the service to the State, not me. You probably have to see what I do with gallentean or those, who promote their ideals. Are you same as them? Eh? Want to feel it on your own skin?

Vikarion wrote:

Diana Kim wrote:
- close relations to someone from enemy side
- support of enemy ideas

Such as Heth, a declared enemy of the State. As in, the CEP, the only legitimate representative of any Caldari, declared Heth to be an enemy of the Caldari State and the Caldari people.

Are you that DUMB?
Enemy = Federation.
Heth-haan is NOT enemy. He is the HERO. He has done in these 5 years more good for the State than anyone else. Petty independent capsuleer. How dare YOU to call him enemy? What has YOU done to the State, except your constant ramblings?
Maybe CEP could call him this way.
BUT YOU DIDN'T DESERVE IT! You are not merited enough!

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#319 - 2013-08-14 03:11:05 UTC
Vikarion wrote:

Diana Kim wrote:
- desire to make own State weaker
- or desire to make enemy stronger

As you desire, insofar as you desire to bring back the most incompetent, ineffectual leader we've ever had, and, in the process, put the State under the boot heel of a declared enemy of the State.

Utter lie.
Because I desire to bring counterwise: the most COMPETENT and the most EFFECTUAL leader we've ever had!
And after this crush the heck down the enemies of the State (the Federation, of course)

Vikarion wrote:

Yes, you wish to make Heth, a declared enemy of the State, into the leader of the State. This would definitely make him stronger. It would also make the Gallente Federation stronger, seeing as Heth has proved to be utterly incompetent against them. Also, in trying to kill Pyre Falcon, you tried to remove one of the most effective Caldari militia forces from their campaign against the Gallente. Making the Gallente stronger.

What the bullshit is this?!
First: He won't make them STRONGER, he will freaking CRUSH them down!
Second: Do you really have no idea what is going on in the warzone?! Claiming that i want to remove whole corporation from militia?! What is wrong with you, got stuffed with gallentean propaganda?
Stop being such ignorant and learn to read. Really.

Vikarion wrote:

Diana Kim wrote:
- preventing own forces from damaging property of enemy
- supporting enemy with either money or force
- or helping enemy forces to damage our property

Yes, as in your attempts to prevent Pyre Falcon from their usual task of fighting the Gallente on the war front.

I told you already, stop being freaking ignorant!
They actually interfered in my action, but your ignorance avoid you to study the problem and you scream like a little gallentean kid, blaming soldier of the State in things like this.
You are simply disgusting, Vikarion!

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#320 - 2013-08-14 03:26:24 UTC
Vikarion wrote:

Diana Kim wrote:
- making blue pacts with enemy

I don't know if you are blue towards Heth, a declared enemy of the State, but you certainly seem to have a bit of a crush on him. Friendly relations, at least.

Blue towards Heth?!...
Man, are you on mushrooms?
Stop already being so obsessed with Heth!
Enemy of the State is the Federation, and you replace enemy with who.... with Heth?!
With the man, who started the war with Federation?
With the man, who has returned us Caldari Prime?
With the man, who restored real meritocracy in the State?...

Who are Federation for you now, Vikarion?! FRIENDS?!!
In all my replies about enemy you replace this concept with Heth. You are so obsessed about him, that I am really hardly can find words. You treat him like he was like what... your ex-wife, whom you put sticks into wheels, because you was bad husband?

And you freaking was bad husband of the State! I have heard a lot of bad stuff about Heth-haan while he was Executor. And this can't make you a good citizen. Actually, it would put you more like among those filthy decadent scum, that were acting against the Executor and the State, when Heth-haan became our leader.

Now Heth-haan is not Executor, and it doesn't matter, will you agree with him or not (of course disagreeing doesn't include insults - since he is the Caldari Hero, and unmerited persons like you has neither authority nor moral ground to insult such merited persons like him). But if you were acting and speaking against him while he was Executor, you are the dissident and outcast, and maybe even possible traitor or spy.

Go hug your dissident scum friends, but remember, that those, who were booted because of nepotism, will never get their places back, even without Heth-haan. You can't stop the progress.

And meanwhile I have some real enemies to kill...

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.