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Poetic Justice for Gold Farming
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Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2013-08-13 18:16:23 UTC
I laugh at this woman's loss. Why? Because it's people like this that ruin games like EVE Online that are not supposed to be pay-to-win by making it pay-to-win. Because the EVE Online EULA expressly forbids selling in-game items for real world money, and I hope whatever account(s) she's using in game to make the item transfers was one of the accounts in the recent wave of permabans.

I hope she loses the case, I applaud the thieves for delivering such poetic (however illegal) justice, I applaud AAMI for denying her claim, and I hope she cries a lot over it.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises
Otherworld Empire
#2 - 2013-08-13 18:20:28 UTC
Gold... gold... gold.

★★★ Secure 3rd party service ★★★

Visit my in-game channel 'Holy Veldspar'

Twitter @ChribbaVeldspar
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2013-08-13 18:23:01 UTC
Chribba wrote:
Gold... gold... gold.


Wow, and I didn't even have to mention your name. This is quite a surprise Shocked

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Mercas Alderau
Wholesale Merchants
#4 - 2013-08-13 18:27:39 UTC
To be honest, I'd have stuck with the virtual gold.

Actual gold is a real hassle - as proven here - and usually not worth it. Certainly not for storing most of your fortune in, way too risky.
C DeLeon
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#5 - 2013-08-13 18:38:38 UTC
I tried gold farming but it didn't worked. I planted a gold nugget in my garden and watered it every day but nothing grew out of it :(
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#6 - 2013-08-13 18:39:19 UTC
Yeah, they are discussing it like a legal matter, but it already is. By paying to play the game you agree to the EULA. That's a contract, so breaching that contract is a breach of a contract. Earning money through a breach of contract is essentially fraud.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Malcolm Shinhwa
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2013-08-13 18:42:36 UTC
I'm unclear how CCP corporate policy should keep an insurance company from paying out on property covered by a policy.

[i]"The purpose of fighting is to win. There is no possible victory in defense. The sword is more important than the shield and skill is more important than either. The final weapon is the brain. All else is supplemental[/i]."
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#8 - 2013-08-13 18:44:19 UTC
Malcolm Shinhwa wrote:
I'm unclear how CCP corporate policy should keep an insurance company from paying out on property covered by a policy.

Oh absolutely. They are denying the claim because they believe she has stolen her own goods to file a fraudulent claim. The discussion about the legality of her income is separate.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2013-08-13 18:49:49 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Malcolm Shinhwa wrote:
I'm unclear how CCP corporate policy should keep an insurance company from paying out on property covered by a policy.

Oh absolutely. They are denying the claim because they believe she has stolen her own goods to file a fraudulent claim. The discussion about the legality of her income is separate.


If AAMI have reason to suspect the claim is fraudulent, based on their reputation, there's a good chance her claim is fraudulent. They wouldn't reject it on these grounds without an investigation that finds these grounds factual. Unless they've gone totally darkside, which would suck for Australia's reputation for having some of the most trustworthy banks and insurance companies in the world.

But, that's what the trial is for, and I may have just tipped off a legal contact of mine at AAMI, anonymously of course, regarding the matter of a legally binding contract with CCP, ie the EULA, that forbids this action in the first place. As a journalist, I have a few friends in low places that might mean your contribution, Mr Kell, may not go completely unheard.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Taiwanistan
#10 - 2013-08-13 18:58:13 UTC
it's more about insurance fraud via faked robbery, than gold farming.

TA on wis: "when we have a feature that is its own functional ecosystem of gameplay then hooks into the greater ecosystem of EVE as a whole, and it provides good replayability."
Pew Terror
All of it
#11 - 2013-08-13 19:06:25 UTC
People are stupidly overrating real money...
I mean that stuff cant even buy proper spaceships.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2013-08-13 19:06:37 UTC
Taiwanistan wrote:
it's more about insurance fraud via faked robbery, than gold farming.


The judge has directly addressed the legality of gold farming, which makes it part and parcel of the case.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
S Byerley
The Manhattan Engineer District
#13 - 2013-08-13 19:22:58 UTC  |  Edited by: S Byerley
Remiel Pollard wrote:
But, that's what the trial is for, and I may have just tipped off a legal contact of mine at AAMI, anonymously of course, regarding the matter of a legally binding contract with CCP, ie the EULA, that forbids this action in the first place. As a journalist, I have a few friends in low places that might mean your contribution, Mr Kell, may not go completely unheard.


**** journalists for perpetuating this EULA nonsense.

It doesn't take a lawyer to know that unless Australia rules the activity illegal (rather than just in breach of contract - and it seems like they'd rather just tax it normally) it has no bearing on a separate insurance claim.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#14 - 2013-08-13 19:24:48 UTC
...be trippin'.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#15 - 2013-08-13 19:26:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Kaarous Aldurald
S Byerley wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
But, that's what the trial is for, and I may have just tipped off a legal contact of mine at AAMI, anonymously of course, regarding the matter of a legally binding contract with CCP, ie the EULA, that forbids this action in the first place. As a journalist, I have a few friends in low places that might mean your contribution, Mr Kell, may not go completely unheard.


**** journalists for perpetuating this EULA nonsense.

I'm obviously no lawyer, but I know damn well that unless Australia rules the activity illegal (rather than just in breach of contract - and it seems like they'd rather just tax it normally) it has no bearing on a separate insurance claim.


Bull. It was already mentioned that it was income earned through breach of a EULA, which is a legal contract. Earnings made expressly through breach of a legal contract are forfeit at best, felony fraud at worst, in just about every western nation. (which is why most RMT is through China)

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Dalmont Delantee
Gecko Corp
#16 - 2013-08-13 19:32:37 UTC
TBH she I hope she dies in a fraudulent insurance con fire. Gold farmers and gold buyers are the scum of the earth when we have a perfectly acceptable plex system.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2013-08-13 19:33:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Remiel Pollard
S Byerley wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
But, that's what the trial is for, and I may have just tipped off a legal contact of mine at AAMI, anonymously of course, regarding the matter of a legally binding contract with CCP, ie the EULA, that forbids this action in the first place. As a journalist, I have a few friends in low places that might mean your contribution, Mr Kell, may not go completely unheard.


**** journalists for perpetuating this EULA nonsense.

It doesn't take a lawyer to know that unless Australia rules the activity illegal (rather than just in breach of contract - and it seems like they'd rather just tax it normally) it has no bearing on a separate insurance claim.


In Australia, a breach of contract IS illegal, the EULA being the contract. Don't get mad just because you've got some personal problem with journalists, this is a perfectly sound legal argument.

And FYI, if it wasn't for journalists, you wouldn't have Wikileaks. If it wasn't for journalists, whistleblowers would go unheard. Don't throw all journalists into the same basket just because there are a few bad eggs.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Malcolm Shinhwa
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2013-08-13 19:46:06 UTC
I generally don't turn to internet forums for legal advise, but its my birthday so I'm going to treat myself. In what country and under what law would violating a EULA, by itself, be a criminal act resulting in state forfeiture of assets and felony charges?

[i]"The purpose of fighting is to win. There is no possible victory in defense. The sword is more important than the shield and skill is more important than either. The final weapon is the brain. All else is supplemental[/i]."
Dalmont Delantee
Gecko Corp
#19 - 2013-08-13 19:50:47 UTC
United States of Delantee. Please pass me all your assets and isk. Via contract please :P
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#20 - 2013-08-13 19:54:58 UTC
Malcolm Shinhwa wrote:
I generally don't turn to internet forums for legal advise, but its my birthday so I'm going to treat myself. In what country and under what law would violating a EULA, by itself, be a criminal act resulting in state forfeiture of assets and felony charges?

Anyone breaching a contract would be liable to pay damages to the party on the other side of the contract. While not directly a criminal matter, intentionally breaching a contract to earn money would not leave you in a healthy legal situation as it could be seen as illegal earnings. Any money you do earn from it would belong to the company owning the game anyway, as they own the "property" you are selling unless they state otherwise. In the case of EVE, seeing as you can buy plex and GTCs legally, and convert them to cash, the breach of contract would be direct loss of earnings for CCP so you'd be liable for that too.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
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