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Blackops question.

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Solutio Letum
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2013-08-12 18:20:07 UTC
they are meant to be moved only with a friend that have a covert cyno, not alone thats why
Isaac Collins
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#22 - 2013-08-12 18:39:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Isaac Collins
Not until they make a new cruiser or destroyer type class that can actually see cloaked ships on overview/ and or probes. There's a counter to literally everything in eve except cloaking.

Speed tank = Warp Scramble
Blaster R4pe = Tracking Disruptors
Ecm= ECCM
Warp Disruptor/Scrambler= Warp Stabs
And so on and so on, Cloaking is the only thing that is impervous to everything.

You can't even gate camp cloakers, If done correctly there is not even a moment for you to INSTA lock them. Maybe if they added a 1 second buffer time when they come out of gate cloak before they can cloak warp i'd be ok with Co Op ships being even more broken then they already are.

TLDR: add a 1 second buffer so I can actually target these ships at the most vulnerable moment that every ship in the game has to deal with.
Irya Boone
The Scope
#23 - 2013-08-12 18:56:32 UTC
humm to be accurate there is a counter to everything that agresses you actually ( see your list )

but i've never saw a cloacked ship target someone, or anything else .. because when you are cloak you can't do nothing except Warp ... and just move.

and when you move if you try to bump someone =decloaked

etc etc

So no need counter to something that doesn't do anything :x

CCP it's time to remove Off Grid Boost and Put Them on Killmail too, add Logi on killmails .... Open that damn door !!

you shall all bow and pray BoB
Isaac Collins
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#24 - 2013-08-12 19:20:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Isaac Collins
Irya Boone wrote:
humm to be accurate there is a counter to everything that agresses you actually ( see your list )

but i've never saw a cloacked ship target someone, or anything else .. because when you are cloak you can't do nothing except Warp ... and just move.

and when you move if you try to bump someone =decloaked

etc etc

So no need counter to something that doesn't do anything :x
When a cloaker de cloaks from the gate jump you can target them but it will never let the targeting actually start,no matter how many times you spam click target while they are clearly visible while changing into cov ops cloak. This is just pure bs. I shouldnt have to sit on gate with a smart bomb battle ship just to kill them. I should get literally 1 second to be able to target them and point them. Its pure bs that they can avoid it regardless of your scan res.
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#25 - 2013-08-12 20:33:38 UTC
Id like to know why a BO's would be overpowered if it could warp cloaked? Details.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
ISD Tyrozan
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#26 - 2013-08-12 21:20:17 UTC
Thread has been moved to Ships & Modules.

ISD Tyrozan

Captain

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department

@ISDTyrozan | @ISD_CCL
Xequecal
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#27 - 2013-08-12 22:15:30 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Id like to know why a BO's would be overpowered if it could warp cloaked? Details.


The Redeemer is a Navy Geddon with one less gun. It still does 1250 DPS, putting a covops cloak on that is absolutely ridiculous.
Tetsuo Tsukaya
Perkone
Caldari State
#28 - 2013-08-12 23:04:00 UTC
Isaac Collins wrote:
Irya Boone wrote:
humm to be accurate there is a counter to everything that agresses you actually ( see your list )

but i've never saw a cloacked ship target someone, or anything else .. because when you are cloak you can't do nothing except Warp ... and just move.

and when you move if you try to bump someone =decloaked

etc etc

So no need counter to something that doesn't do anything :x
When a cloaker de cloaks from the gate jump you can target them but it will never let the targeting actually start,no matter how many times you spam click target while they are clearly visible while changing into cov ops cloak. This is just pure bs. I shouldnt have to sit on gate with a smart bomb battle ship just to kill them. I should get literally 1 second to be able to target them and point them. Its pure bs that they can avoid it regardless of your scan res.


Lazy PVPer tears best tears. Tell me more about how sad it makes you that your gate camp can't catch literally everything.
Baron vonDoom
Scorn.
#29 - 2013-08-12 23:23:39 UTC
Xequecal wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Id like to know why a BO's would be overpowered if it could warp cloaked? Details.


The Redeemer is a Navy Geddon with one less gun. It still does 1250 DPS, putting a covops cloak on that is absolutely ridiculous.


No
ElQuirko
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#30 - 2013-08-13 00:10:15 UTC
Xequecal wrote:
The Redeemer is a Navy Geddon with one less gun. It still does 1250 DPS, putting a covops cloak on that is absolutely ridiculous.


Let's not exaggerate sweetie. And you're ignoring the fact it has the tank of a damp tissue.

Dodixie > Hek
Khanid Voltar
#31 - 2013-08-13 00:11:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Khanid Voltar
Altessa Post wrote:
A Dev mentioned at Fanfest 2013 that there are no plans to allow the Black Ops to warp cloaked because it would make them overpowered. While Devs say a lot at Fanfests, this one did so while being sober. So, it is probably not a relic of the past but a conscious design decision.


When Black Ops were first introduced on sisi they required cloaking L5, and could warp cloaked.

As in this thread there were back then many tears in case the route to adaption was not quite clear for the nubs. So when they were launched in game, 'a dev' said that they were releasing the ship pre-nerfed so they could ensure it wasn't too much of a pwn-mobile, and they removed the ability to fit cov ops cloaks.

Like many things in this game, the dev said they would 'keep an eye on it' ..... and like everything else back then this translated into 'got better things to worry about' ... but don't forget at this time there were no T3's with cloaky nullifer's. Since Black Ops BS were introduced a geometric tonne of a lot has changed.

So while many like to think that BOPS were not introduced with the ability to use cov ops cloaks for a reason, the reason is simply this - those that were worried about it now, were worried about it then, and they were the people that cried the loudest at the time.

When the ship class was first envisaged, it was envisaged with a covert ops cloak. End of story.

Does it have a utility with out the cov ops cloak? Sure it does.

Does the utility justify the price tag without the ability to fit a covert ops cloak ? In my opinion not.
Xequecal
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#32 - 2013-08-13 00:42:33 UTC
Giving a covops cloak to a ship with no lock delay after uncloaking and fairly high DPS is a serious problem. At least the covops Proteus gives you 6 seconds to escape before it can lock, the black ops can lock immediately.
destiny2
Decaying Rocky Odious Non Evil Stupid Inane Nobody
Looking for Trouble
#33 - 2013-08-13 00:53:44 UTC
Xequecal wrote:
Giving a covops cloak to a ship with no lock delay after uncloaking and fairly high DPS is a serious problem. At least the covops Proteus gives you 6 seconds to escape before it can lock, the black ops can lock immediately.

yeah except a battleship is pretty slow as well it could be out runned easily.
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#34 - 2013-08-13 02:05:26 UTC
Xequecal wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Id like to know why a BO's would be overpowered if it could warp cloaked? Details.


The Redeemer is a Navy Geddon with one less gun. It still does 1250 DPS, putting a covops cloak on that is absolutely ridiculous.


Now compare the tank....

....and consider you have to pack it to the gills to get anywhere.
Evanga
DoctorOzz
Domain Research and Mining Inst.
#35 - 2013-08-13 07:54:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Evanga
Cov ops cloak would be epic but way too overpowered Smile

They should first look into t2 rebalance for the battleships .. hopefully the blops become a bit better then their t1 versions (ehp wise)..
Khanid Voltar
#36 - 2013-08-13 11:09:50 UTC
Xequecal wrote:
Giving a covops cloak to a ship with no lock delay after uncloaking and fairly high DPS is a serious problem. At least the covops Proteus gives you 6 seconds to escape before it can lock, the black ops can lock immediately.


BS's have dismally slow lock speed. Yes this can be boosted with modules, but not to insta-locking speed.

Before you say remote sensor boosters, remember the ship offering the remote boosts needs to uncloak and lock the BS first... so no, the BS cannot lock instantly, it can only start to lock.

And because the ship was released pre-nerfed (because when the ship was designed it DID have a cov ops which was subsequently taken away without un-nerfing those pre-release stats) every slot on a BOPS BS counts, and there are not ample free slots for sensor boosters unless you are looking to gain a comedy lossmail.

It just seems like people say OMGWAYOVERPOWEREDCLOAKYBS and don't really consider the facts.

Janna Windforce
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#37 - 2013-08-13 12:56:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Janna Windforce
Khanid Voltar wrote:

BS's have dismally slow lock speed.



Especially when atm you are screwing your lockspeed by fitting non-covert cloak.

So here we have
1) Huge price tag
2) Weaksauce tank for BS
3) So-so firepower, with typical problems of dmg application of BS size guns
4) Boo scan res
5) Align and speeds of T1 BS (and BC speed if cloaked, how does that help? Imo bombers should have this bonus, as they spend much more time slowboating into positions)

Is ability to fit covert cloak too much? I don't think so.

P.S.: It would be neat to have a POS module working as (covert) cyno beacon, would save hassle with alts.
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#38 - 2013-08-13 13:43:12 UTC
Janna Windforce wrote:


4) Boo scan res
.



Not to mention further boo scan res because of the stupid cloak....which makes crappy scan res even worse.
Trii Seo
Goonswarm Federation
#39 - 2013-08-13 16:15:17 UTC
I get the stinking feeling a lot of people here not only haven't flown a blackops, they also don't have a clue as to how it should be used. Not that I disagree they deserve some love, but:

- If you're warping out as a blackops BS, you shouldn't really be cloaked. You likely just ganked someone and your cap booster is cycling so that you can jump to an extraction cyno right after exiting warp.
- If you're warping anywhere, just cloak on landing. It's a battleship, it has smaller fleet members left for it to scout or tackle things.

Granted here, it could use one thing: a bonus negating scanres penalty. The scanres is already obnoxiously low.

As for the matter of gank&tank... to have both in line with T1 variants would hugely imbalance the Black Ops. Let's not forget the massive advantage it has: jump drive (not to mention undetectable cynos that last 1/10 of the cycle time etc.) and a portal generator. It's a battleship that can bypass whatever defences are between itself and the target with a single jump and without the risk of fielding a Titan to bridge it.

Given their role as covert harassment ships, Black Ops should probably be given a damage increase. Be the Stealth Bombers among battleships, fragile but able to kill off an isolated target very quickly.

As for the covert cloak, to think of it, there's a point to it being non-covert. If someone manages to catch one in the field, he deserves at least a shot at killing it. "Covert" does not mean "Completely uncatchable and invulnerable" it means "damn hard to catch if the pilot is good"

Proud pilot of the Imperium

Arek'Jaalan: Heliograph
destiny2
Decaying Rocky Odious Non Evil Stupid Inane Nobody
Looking for Trouble
#40 - 2013-08-14 02:14:56 UTC
after doing some small field tests with my widow in lowsec, a blackops to me kinda seems like a minnie titan in a way, you bridge and log off or in blackops case warp and dock.

as soon as you see widow on grid its dead before it locks anything.

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