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unidentified Brutor male believed to be between the ages of 18-25, who was apparently taken into cus

Author
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#81 - 2013-08-11 17:37:00 UTC
This is standard procedure. Whenever you have a bodycount you need to make sure you follow the procedure. Whether these Gallente students were the agressors or not, they have families and those families need to be reassured that all the facts of the matter were properly gone into.

The Brutor student killed three men. Unless he's a product of some outstanding school of martial arts there has to be some question about how this was achieved. There also has to be some question as to what point he used lethal force to defend himself - was he capable of withdrawing? Had the confrontation become physical already, or was it at the pushing and shouting stage? Did the three persist in their efforts to attack him until the end, or did they try and withdraw, with him pursuing and killing them? Did the Brutor use an illegal weapon to defend himself?

All these questions must be ascertained. It is quite possible for the Brutor student to have been defending himself and yet to have broken the law egregiously. If he has broken the law, then he should be served with due process.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Katarina Musana
Clan Leshya Offworld Venture Enterprise
#82 - 2013-08-12 05:25:02 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
This is standard procedure. Whenever you have a bodycount you need to make sure you follow the procedure. Whether these Gallente students were the agressors or not, they have families and those families need to be reassured that all the facts of the matter were properly gone into.

The Brutor student killed three men. Unless he's a product of some outstanding school of martial arts there has to be some question about how this was achieved. There also has to be some question as to what point he used lethal force to defend himself - was he capable of withdrawing? Had the confrontation become physical already, or was it at the pushing and shouting stage? Did the three persist in their efforts to attack him until the end, or did they try and withdraw, with him pursuing and killing them? Did the Brutor use an illegal weapon to defend himself?

All these questions must be ascertained. It is quite possible for the Brutor student to have been defending himself and yet to have broken the law egregiously. If he has broken the law, then he should be served with due process.



While it does seem suspicious to me, you make a good point, Pieter. On the other hand, this is also a more delicate situation than such a thing would normally be.
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#83 - 2013-08-12 06:45:04 UTC
Deaths are always delicate, Katarina. In my opinion suspicions are best laid to rest by investigating - business as usual.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Katarina Musana
Clan Leshya Offworld Venture Enterprise
#84 - 2013-08-12 19:33:35 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Deaths are always delicate, Katarina. In my opinion suspicions are best laid to rest by investigating - business as usual.



I meant politically delicate, but yes, I agree. I just hope the investigators are both impartial and forthcoming.
Bryen Verrisai
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#85 - 2013-08-12 20:05:44 UTC
Katarina Musana wrote:
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Deaths are always delicate, Katarina. In my opinion suspicions are best laid to rest by investigating - business as usual.



I meant politically delicate, but yes, I agree. I just hope the investigators are both impartial and forthcoming.

And I'm sure that if the investigators aren't suitably forthcoming, the Republican Fleet will be.
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#86 - 2013-08-13 00:06:01 UTC
Katarina Musana wrote:
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Deaths are always delicate, Katarina. In my opinion suspicions are best laid to rest by investigating - business as usual.



I meant politically delicate, but yes, I agree. I just hope the investigators are both impartial and forthcoming.


I hope politics is kept out of it as far as possible. That's the only way to MAKE this impartial.

This is a complex investigation with many facets that need to be examined minutely. Give the investigators time and the space they need to do their jobs. If it's any consolation, I would consider the Brutor student to be a vital person of interest in the case and would also have had him detained.

It's far too easy to slip onto a shuttle and be across the border.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#87 - 2013-08-13 00:42:03 UTC
Bryen Verrisai wrote:
Katarina Musana wrote:
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Deaths are always delicate, Katarina. In my opinion suspicions are best laid to rest by investigating - business as usual.



I meant politically delicate, but yes, I agree. I just hope the investigators are both impartial and forthcoming.

And I'm sure that if the investigators aren't suitably forthcoming, the Republican Fleet will be.


Well, if the Republic Fleet wants to threaten safe navigation in Federation border systems with Dreadnought wreckage again, they should remember that the cost of clearing up everytime they 'whelp' a fleet is more than paid for by the salvage.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Andrea Okazon
Laurentson INC
#88 - 2013-08-13 01:51:22 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
This is standard procedure. Whenever you have a bodycount you need to make sure you follow the procedure. Whether these Gallente students were the agressors or not, they have families and those families need to be reassured that all the facts of the matter were properly gone into.

The Brutor student killed three men. Unless he's a product of some outstanding school of martial arts there has to be some question about how this was achieved. There also has to be some question as to what point he used lethal force to defend himself - was he capable of withdrawing? Had the confrontation become physical already, or was it at the pushing and shouting stage? Did the three persist in their efforts to attack him until the end, or did they try and withdraw, with him pursuing and killing them? Did the Brutor use an illegal weapon to defend himself?

All these questions must be ascertained. It is quite possible for the Brutor student to have been defending himself and yet to have broken the law egregiously. If he has broken the law, then he should be served with due process.


This post was useful in levelling my mood. Thank you.
Katarina Musana
Clan Leshya Offworld Venture Enterprise
#89 - 2013-08-13 06:41:16 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Katarina Musana wrote:
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Deaths are always delicate, Katarina. In my opinion suspicions are best laid to rest by investigating - business as usual.



I meant politically delicate, but yes, I agree. I just hope the investigators are both impartial and forthcoming.


I hope politics is kept out of it as far as possible. That's the only way to MAKE this impartial.


Yeah, but politics is like sand. It gets everywhere.

Quote:
This is a complex investigation with many facets that need to be examined minutely. Give the investigators time and the space they need to do their jobs. If it's any consolation, I would consider the Brutor student to be a vital person of interest in the case and would also have had him detained.

It's far too easy to slip onto a shuttle and be across the border.


I agree, and as far as I know, it would be handled the same way in most of the Republic. The political context, however, is what makes the whole situation dicey.

For now, though, we can only wait and see what happens.
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#90 - 2013-08-13 07:58:45 UTC
Indeed. Heat coffee. Acquire Donuts. Read Paper.


Commence investigation.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

TomHorn
Horn Brothers Holdings Inc.
#91 - 2013-08-27 01:32:59 UTC
How long can the Federation hold someone without charge before they have to release him. This male has been held now for close on a month.

I would of thought the FIO would of beaten a confession out of him by now. Looks like he is a pretty tough guy.
Constantin Baracca
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#92 - 2013-08-27 23:44:55 UTC
Hmm. Considering the empires have a habit of evaporating hundreds of thousands, if not millions, over small slights and outright power grabs, I'm somewhat surprised that it became news that someone killed three people.

We can always be optimistic. Perhaps three murders being newsworthy means we have shifted our perspective if ever so slightly.

"What good will it be for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul? Or what can anyone give in exchange for their soul?"

-Matthew 16:26

Motoko Kasaki
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#93 - 2013-08-27 23:50:51 UTC
Constantin Baracca wrote:
Hmm. Considering the empires have a habit of evaporating hundreds of thousands, if not millions, over small slights and outright power grabs, I'm somewhat surprised that it became news that someone killed three people.

We can always be optimistic. Perhaps three murders being newsworthy means we have shifted our perspective if ever so slightly.


We can but hope, though I imagine it will be because one or other of these people are in someway important. I must admit, one person being able to take down three is a little suspect. I could do it and I'm sure other people could too, but I'd still wonder how it happened, unless he had a weapon of some description. I'd also question self defence required the killing of all three unless they were likewise armed. However as Mr Tuulinen says, we must wait for the investigation to be complete and reveal its findings.

Glory to the State.

Constantin Baracca
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#94 - 2013-08-27 23:58:49 UTC
Motoko Kasaki wrote:
Constantin Baracca wrote:
Hmm. Considering the empires have a habit of evaporating hundreds of thousands, if not millions, over small slights and outright power grabs, I'm somewhat surprised that it became news that someone killed three people.

We can always be optimistic. Perhaps three murders being newsworthy means we have shifted our perspective if ever so slightly.


We can but hope, though I imagine it will be because one or other of these people are in someway important. I must admit, one person being able to take down three is a little suspect. I could do it and I'm sure other people could too, but I'd still wonder how it happened, unless he had a weapon of some description. I'd also question self defence required the killing of all three unless they were likewise armed. However as Mr Tuulinen says, we must wait for the investigation to be complete and reveal its findings.


True enough, though I would not be so impressed by the numbers. It would depend, quite a bit, on who those three were. I have had some amount of formal combat training, so it would hardly be difficult for me to kill three unarmed civilians, no matter how belligerent or what I was armed with.

I suppose that, in the case your theory is correct, we can assume one of three things is suspicious. Either he killed someone important enough to warrant an investigation into whether it was well and truly self defense (empires tend to dig until they find the evidence they want to find about their favored sons), he managed to kill three people that no average citizen should have the capacity to kill (such as well-trained riot teams or soldiers) and thus they are questioning his amateur status, or Gallente and Matari relations have fallen to the point where even cases of reported self defense warrant deep investigation.

Either way, hopefully we can all look forward to days when political outcry rabbles over three deaths. We had an industrial mining accident not far from Amarr that killed ten slaves and their handler. That didn't even make the local headline.

"What good will it be for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul? Or what can anyone give in exchange for their soul?"

-Matthew 16:26

Ganque
Ganque's Squad
#95 - 2013-09-14 17:35:06 UTC
Constantin Baracca wrote:

True enough, though I would not be so impressed by the numbers. It would depend, quite a bit, on who those three were. I have had some amount of formal combat training, so it would hardly be difficult for me to kill three unarmed civilians, no matter how belligerent or what I was armed with.

I suppose that, in the case your theory is correct, we can assume one of three things is suspicious. Either he killed someone important enough to warrant an investigation into whether it was well and truly self defense (empires tend to dig until they find the evidence they want to find about their favored sons), he managed to kill three people that no average citizen should have the capacity to kill (such as well-trained riot teams or soldiers) and thus they are questioning his amateur status, or Gallente and Matari relations have fallen to the point where even cases of reported self defense warrant deep investigation.

Either way, hopefully we can all look forward to days when political outcry rabbles over three deaths. We had an industrial mining accident not far from Amarr that killed ten slaves and their handler. That didn't even make the local headline.


I've been doing my own investigating, and biding my time hoping this young brother would be set free, but no, still chained, well I have to do something about that as promised.

So today I took a small team and hunted down a supposed journalist from the Scope who, in my opinion, had failed to do any real investigation into this sorry tale, instead preferring to moonlight as a miner in Balle whilst submitting corporate fluff pieces as content. So he got Ganqued, his Mackinaw and Pod were put to the torch. No doubt he is waking up with a headache today.

I can only say this will continue as long as my Brutor brother is held captive.

Peace out.
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#96 - 2013-09-14 18:46:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Pieter Tuulinen
You realise, of course, that you have just slaughtered a fair percentage of the crew of that Mackinaw? Someone, somewhere, knows the names and numbers of those dead men and women and will be seeking out Brutor corpses to balance the scales.

Vigilante Justice is not Justice. It breeds response and escalation. There are many who say that the Matari will NEVER know peace for so long as they cannot act according to civilised norms.

Let the authorities deal with it.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Fredfredbug4
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#97 - 2013-09-14 22:18:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Fredfredbug4
Constantin Baracca wrote:
Hmm. Considering the empires have a habit of evaporating hundreds of thousands, if not millions, over small slights and outright power grabs, I'm somewhat surprised that it became news that someone killed three people.


"One death is a tragedy; a million is a statistic."

The media typically follow the quoted belief. When people look to their holoprojectors and find that a thousand people were gunned down they say "Oh how horrible!" and go back to eating dinner. When they see that the ex-Prime Minister was one of those thousands, a more vocal response is delivered.

Watch_ Fred Fred Frederation_ and stop [u]cryptozoologist[/u]! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it!

Fredfredbug4
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#98 - 2013-09-14 22:28:41 UTC
Ganque wrote:


I've been doing my own investigating, and biding my time hoping this young brother would be set free, but no, still chained, well I have to do something about that as promised.

So today I took a small team and hunted down a supposed journalist from the Scope who, in my opinion, had failed to do any real investigation into this sorry tale, instead preferring to moonlight as a miner in Balle whilst submitting corporate fluff pieces as content. So he got Ganqued, his Mackinaw and Pod were put to the torch. No doubt he is waking up with a headache today.

I can only say this will continue as long as my Brutor brother is held captive.

Peace out.


Congrats, you've managed to give the inbred U-Nats a Casus Belli to continue to discriminate and commit acts of violence against your people.

Watch_ Fred Fred Frederation_ and stop [u]cryptozoologist[/u]! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it!

Ganque
Ganque's Squad
#99 - 2013-09-14 22:46:07 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
You realise, of course, that you have just slaughtered a fair percentage of the crew of that Mackinaw? Someone, somewhere, knows the names and numbers of those dead men and women and will be seeking out Brutor corpses to balance the scales.

Vigilante Justice is not Justice. It breeds response and escalation. There are many who say that the Matari will NEVER know peace for so long as they cannot act according to civilised norms.

Let the authorities deal with it.


They've got escape pods, non synchronous clones and what knot, and they knew what they was signing up for, I've given plenty of warning in Balle local to my intentions. So why should I care about that? And those folks you are talking of would be seeking Brutor corpses regardless.

Justice is a vague concept in this cluster, mostly it's a mask for lies and prevarication, I'm not dispensing vigilante justice or any kind of justice for that matter, I am providing consequences.
Ganque
Ganque's Squad
#100 - 2013-09-14 22:50:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Ganque
Fredfredbug4 wrote:
Ganque wrote:


I've been doing my own investigating, and biding my time hoping this young brother would be set free, but no, still chained, well I have to do something about that as promised.

So today I took a small team and hunted down a supposed journalist from the Scope who, in my opinion, had failed to do any real investigation into this sorry tale, instead preferring to moonlight as a miner in Balle whilst submitting corporate fluff pieces as content. So he got Ganqued, his Mackinaw and Pod were put to the torch. No doubt he is waking up with a headache today.

I can only say this will continue as long as my Brutor brother is held captive.

Peace out.


Congrats, you've managed to give the inbred U-Nats a Casus Belli to continue to discriminate and commit acts of violence against your people.


They was already doing so, an didn't look to be in a hurry to stop, I'm simply providing consequences for that.

It's reciprocation.

When they stop, when they free my brother, then I'll stop feeding anti matter to those that by action or inaction support them.