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Public Service Announcement concerning wormhole data and relic sites [Sisi now updated]

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NEONOVUS
Mindstar Technology
Goonswarm Federation
#41 - 2013-08-12 12:39:11 UTC
So this was the simple method of nerfing T3s?

Looking through the new market data, a lot of people seem to be running COSMOS sites now.
Perhaps the people originally running daytrips swapped over?
ChaseTheLasers
Ekchuah's Shrine Comporium
#42 - 2013-08-12 18:59:17 UTC
Maximus Andendare wrote:
ChaseTheLasers wrote:
Thanks for the post, Fozzie.

Do you have any plans to iterate on the game design itself? As you can see from this thread and many more on here, there is a lot of dislike for the current mechanics.

I hope that CCP still has staff playing in wormholes and can see / hear the dislike of the current system on coms. It really makes for tedious gameplay.
You mean you don't like huddling up with your corpmates around a can to grab a small can on a cluttered screen only to get that piece of coal when a hack is "successful"??? :)


If you had my corp mates, you'd understand why I don't like huddling with them at the best of times.
Ad'Hakim Tahous
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#43 - 2013-08-13 22:35:32 UTC
CCP Fozzie:

Please consider the possibility that the potential to identify, select, and then collect specific mini-cans can be diminished by any hesitation, any false twitch of a mouse, or even a delay in my screen displaying a can's identifying type.

However well-intentioned, gathering loot from the spray of mini-cans is often a matter of pure luck to gather anything of value. The risk/reward curve does not seem to be worth the effort for w-space.

No skill we could train would improve our ability to manage that moment, nor will any module or rig. The mechanic itself is unique among all other loot drops. Thanks for the effort to bring something new to the game. IMHO this isn't really working out. Please look at options to modify this, substantially, or to remove it?

Thanks.
Scythi Magellen
Marmite Archaeologists
#44 - 2013-08-14 13:25:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Scythi Magellen
Speaking as a noob to all this I found I actually enjoyed it at first. I even discovered a way to successfully hack first time, every time (but sometimes its random like all this stuff). And if you're aware of the names of the containers as they scatter you can quickly ignore all the ones containing things like coal. But there is a knack to it, and if you're not patient enough to learn all of the tricks needed I can see people easily getting fed up with it.

Regarding working in teams - I've taken my friend with me to hoover up all the cans I've missed, but to be honest his gains are minimal and I found I get just the same results working alone. Perhaps this is different in WH's? He rarely hacks sites because as has been said on this thread, he finds it annoying these days.

However....if there's anything I'd like to see improve is the odd blip during scanning when it picks up a site that's in the middle of being looted by another player. As the scanning narrows down and pinpoints the location the signal goes up and down as the other player works their way around the site. I'd like to see it remain strong till the other player has finished the whole site, or weak till the other player has left. Not wishy washy as it is now. Perhaps its just me?

I'd like to eventually venture into WH space, but I'm waiting till my skills allow me to survive longer. Till then I'll read folks posts on threads such as this and hope I live long enough to find a sleeper site before everyone finds me.

"To know the true path, but yet, to never follow it. That is possibly the gravest sin"

- The Scriptures, Book of Missions 13:21.
Svodola Darkfury
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#45 - 2013-08-14 21:19:32 UTC
3rd page, probably won't be read...

Hacking Mini-game is interesting, and it draws attention from the hacker away from the main game, meaning it's not too hard to land on them for kills. Scatter cans punishes solo players (which in C1-C3 is kind of silly) and isn't compelling. I think opening a cargo container style can is easier and less obnoxious.

Also, we pretty much stopped doing C5 data sites cans because they are worthless now, and relic sites are dropping in the order of 650 million in loot in C5 sites. So not only is the hacking slightly annoying, the scatter cans very annoying, but the loot that we are retrieving is going to plummet in price soon reducing the overall reason of even bothering with mechanics of hacking is going to cease to exist.

The mini-game is annoying, but I really don't mind it. It's the scatter cans, not having enough room for loot, and the worthlessness of data sites that is bugging me.

Svo.

P.S. any other long-term wormholers finding themselves editing their posts to replace Radar with Data and Mag with Relic? :p

Director of Frozen Corpse Industries.
Necharo Rackham
The Red Circle Inc.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#46 - 2013-08-15 08:18:50 UTC
We have not seen any hulls recently either. The only way I can make sense of the OP is if; there are always three hulls in the same container, and they never show up via a cargo scanner.

Though that would be broken in other ways (the ship with the highest bonus for hacking wouldn't have a large enough cargo bay by default to hold the container contents).
Zara Arran
Overload This
#47 - 2013-08-15 12:25:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Zara Arran
Sylvanium Orlenard wrote:
I have records of all the loot that was collected by the E-UNI Wormhole Campus from before and after the Odyssey change.

I can confirm that not a single Hull Section (Wreck, Malfunctioning or Intact) has been collected by us since the Odyssey change. I am having trouble believing that all the Hull Sections that dropped were not looted because of lacking cargo space . . . That seems like a statistical impossibility.

Disclaimer: We usually farm a C3 wormhole and yes hull sections dropped rarely before the odyssey change they still dropped. Now we never see them.

Regarding the Use of Cargo scanners : It has been our experience that cargo scanning is unreliable as they don't give you the full content of the can just a partial list.


I did get an intact hull out of a C5 site a week or two ago. So they do drop (but I don't remember the site).

I found the mechanics tedious, especially that one person is busy with the minigame, and the others just have to wait. Also, I believe when two people click the same can it (usually?) ends up not being looted by either but disappears.
Elemental Order
Cycle of Decay
#48 - 2013-08-17 15:42:04 UTC
Still haven't had any drop according to corpmates. A little too busy with RL to do too many myself.

Any updates on this?
ExookiZ
The Dark Space Initiative
Scary Wormhole People
#49 - 2013-08-17 15:56:47 UTC
Zara Arran wrote:
did get an intact hull out of a C5 site a week or two ago. So they do drop (but I don't remember the site).

I found the mechanics tedious, especially that one person is busy with the minigame, and the others just have to wait. Also, I believe when two people click the same can it (usually?) ends up not being looted by either but disappears.


liar. there are no hull sections.

Also why dont WH cans explode once youve failed them? I find it rather silly that you let us sit there forever and just keep derping until suddenly piles of isk fall out.

Event Organizer of EVE North East
Job Valador
Professional Amateurs
#50 - 2013-08-18 20:41:37 UTC
kill the loot spew. I don't mind the mini game too much though

"The stone exhibited a profound lack of movement."
Zara Arran
Overload This
#51 - 2013-08-20 07:12:41 UTC
ExookiZ wrote:
Zara Arran wrote:
did get an intact hull out of a C5 site a week or two ago. So they do drop (but I don't remember the site).

I found the mechanics tedious, especially that one person is busy with the minigame, and the others just have to wait. Also, I believe when two people click the same can it (usually?) ends up not being looted by either but disappears.


liar.

stuff.


Exo is making friends....
Alundil
Rolled Out
#52 - 2013-08-21 19:44:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Alundil
As has been said all over the forums, mini game is fine. Scatter mechanic is awful. Data sites in w-space, so far have been not worth the time and effort.

I'm right behind you
Maximus Andendare
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#53 - 2013-08-21 20:05:11 UTC
Scythi Magellen wrote:
Speaking as a noob to all this I found I actually enjoyed it at first. I even discovered a way to successfully hack first time, every time (but sometimes its random like all this stuff). And if you're aware of the names of the containers as they scatter you can quickly ignore all the ones containing things like coal. But there is a knack to it, and if you're not patient enough to learn all of the tricks needed I can see people easily getting fed up with it.

Regarding working in teams - I've taken my friend with me to hoover up all the cans I've missed, but to be honest his gains are minimal and I found I get just the same results working alone. Perhaps this is different in WH's? He rarely hacks sites because as has been said on this thread, he finds it annoying these days.

However....if there's anything I'd like to see improve is the odd blip during scanning when it picks up a site that's in the middle of being looted by another player. As the scanning narrows down and pinpoints the location the signal goes up and down as the other player works their way around the site. I'd like to see it remain strong till the other player has finished the whole site, or weak till the other player has left. Not wishy washy as it is now. Perhaps its just me?

I'd like to eventually venture into WH space, but I'm waiting till my skills allow me to survive longer. Till then I'll read folks posts on threads such as this and hope I live long enough to find a sleeper site before everyone finds me.
I think the "I get more from being with teammates" is true, in an absolute sense, but fails miserably in a relative one. What I mean by that is sure you'll make more isk by being in a team, because you'll get *that* last bit of coal or scrap metal, but are you *really* making more? Well, no, not really. Whoever finds that worthless junk valuable, shoot me a pm and I'll contract all my coal and other garbage to you. ;)

Enter grid and you're already dead, destined to be reborn and fight another day.

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Merkal Aubauch
V0LTA
OnlyFleets.
#54 - 2013-08-22 13:47:27 UTC
Guys it's all good. Soon T3 production will stop cos market of hull sections is empty. Working as intended. GL
CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#55 - 2013-08-23 15:03:02 UTC
Hey everyone. Team Kuromaku has identified and fixed a problem that was preventing the hull sections from dropping in many cases. The fix will be deployed in Odyssey 1.1 and is on Sisi now if you want to investigate for yourselves and let us know what you think.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie
Voivod Jones
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#56 - 2013-08-23 16:14:28 UTC
Wormhole Data and Relic cans DO NOT explode upon failing the mini-game twice like known space. This needs to be fixed! Relic loot prices are down well over 50% from the introduction of Odyssey

Also, C1-4 Relic site's loot needs to be iterated. Since the mini-game was introduced, it is no longer worth anyone's time to play the game for the paltry Wrecked loot that they disperse in C1-4s.

And Data site loot in ALL wormhole classes is a joke. So bad now after factoring in time for the mini-game that I think mining is better ISK per hour
Metal Icarus
Star Frontiers
Brotherhood of Spacers
#57 - 2013-08-26 13:24:03 UTC
Voivod Jones wrote:

And Data site loot in ALL wormhole classes is a joke. So bad now after factoring in time for the mini-game that I think mining is better ISK per hour


This. So much this! Data sites are worthless even in 0.0!
Necharo Rackham
The Red Circle Inc.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#58 - 2013-08-29 08:07:44 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hey everyone. Team Kuromaku has identified and fixed a problem that was preventing the hull sections from dropping in many cases. The fix will be deployed in Odyssey 1.1 and is on Sisi now if you want to investigate for yourselves and let us know what you think.


While I'm sure we are all glad you fixed this, the history of this issue seems to indicate a need to investigate things a little more thoroughly in future - or some of you need to start playing in Wormholes instead of 0.0 Smile
Pri Mark
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#59 - 2013-08-29 15:27:24 UTC
I would love to be able to comment on this thread but only one Data site has spawned in the C4 I live in in the last 10 weeks since I moved in - no Relic sites have spawned at all. I am 100% certain that no-one else has run them, as the system is checked daily and monitored for NPC kills on Dotlan daily too. I also have characters in another WH corp and the spawns seem ok there (most folks think the sites are not worth doing though).

I've lived constantly in WH's since 2010 and I am fully aware that site spawns are random, but one Data site in 10 weeks and no relic sites??

It seems like there is also a problem with the spawn mechanics of these sites that needs looking into, not just the scatter mechanics!
M1k3y Koontz
House of Musashi
Stay Feral
#60 - 2013-09-03 17:02:07 UTC  |  Edited by: M1k3y Koontz
Ion Blacknight wrote:
I do not do data or relic sites any more since Odyssey, the new mechanics are both tedious and annoying and the rewards are not there.


^ This, we don't bother trying to hack the cans, just kill the sleepers. It just isn't worth the time required to hack the sites, they are incredibly hard in C6s.

As for the SCATTER mechanic, its pointless. I already managed to beat the mini-game, why is there another mini-game where half the loot is destroyed?


Edit: To be clear, I don't dislike the hacking mechanic (except that evil evil thing that reduces my virus's attack strength, that needs to be removed. Immediately. I had no idea CCP employed the devil until I found that thing in a site, nobody else hates people enough to put 4 of those in a single can.) I hate the the scatter mechanic though. Its entirely pointless.

How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.