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[Odyssey 1.1] Jump Clone skills *Updated with Advanced Infomorph Psychology*

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Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#481 - 2013-08-10 19:37:20 UTC
Just make it a -2 hour reduction per skill level and everything else is fine (14 hours max).

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Ines Tegator
Serious Business Inc. Ltd. LLC. etc.
#482 - 2013-08-10 21:48:06 UTC
Perfect as-is. Have my babies.

This will be a 1x skill right? I mean, being able to change clones once per daily gameplay session should be a core feature of the game. I don't really want to sped 2 weeks training for it.

Overhaul Dscan!
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#483 - 2013-08-10 23:58:21 UTC
Will Infomorph Synchronizing have any prerequisites? Other than Infomorph Psychology lvl 1 because that would just make sense, but I don't think there's any need to require, say, Infomorph Psychology 5.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Nazowa
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#484 - 2013-08-11 00:10:39 UTC
So you have correctly identified that there is a problem in terms of playability regarding jump clone timers yet you try to "fix" it with a new skill ? So cheap What?
Max Zerg
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#485 - 2013-08-11 12:35:26 UTC
Dear CCP Rise

Decreasing jump-clones cooldown is a nice gift.

Players’ suggestions in this thread:
- Truncate basic interval to 20 hours instead of 24
- Make skill-based delay percentage based (e.g. not 1 or 2 absolute hours per skill level, but 5% or 10% per skill level)
are highly reasonable, please, DON'T IGNORE them.

and yes, would you like to know a secret: not everyone plays EVE Online 23.5/7

Thanks
Lolita Troublemaker
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#486 - 2013-08-11 13:05:10 UTC
Longinius Spear wrote:
Let’s be real here CCP, how could you not know this would go over like a wet pancake?

Your continual release of skills that just make current content less annoying doesn’t bring anything to the game.

Skills to make ECM slightly less effective, or armor slightly more agile is like teasing us. It doesn’t address actual problems and looks like you're simply throwing scraps to your players.

Want to make this skill a game changer? Change it to 4 hours per level. THAT would bring content. At max level it would knock it down to 4 hours between clone jumps. A person could roam in a throw away pvp ship for a few hours, die in a fire of pod goo and go back to skilling the rest of the day.

You would have more people not stressing about pod death, more roams, more pvp, more emersion, less people sitting in a station because they are scared to lose millions in implants.

But changing it from 24 to 19 at max level.. is like showing us you can do it… and not actually doing it, just cause. I personally think that’s worse.




This states it all. I know I would be able to undock my mains much more thereby having more fun and stimulating the economy by blowing up FAR more often!
Caleb Ayrania
TarNec
Invisible Exchequer
#487 - 2013-08-11 13:21:31 UTC
Lolita Troublemaker wrote:
Longinius Spear wrote:
Let’s be real here CCP, how could you not know this would go over like a wet pancake?

Your continual release of skills that just make current content less annoying doesn’t bring anything to the game.

Skills to make ECM slightly less effective, or armor slightly more agile is like teasing us. It doesn’t address actual problems and looks like you're simply throwing scraps to your players.

Want to make this skill a game changer? Change it to 4 hours per level. THAT would bring content. At max level it would knock it down to 4 hours between clone jumps. A person could roam in a throw away pvp ship for a few hours, die in a fire of pod goo and go back to skilling the rest of the day.

You would have more people not stressing about pod death, more roams, more pvp, more emersion, less people sitting in a station because they are scared to lose millions in implants.

But changing it from 24 to 19 at max level.. is like showing us you can do it… and not actually doing it, just cause. I personally think that’s worse.




This states it all. I know I would be able to undock my mains much more thereby having more fun and stimulating the economy by blowing up FAR more often!


Considering that the community is not "perfectly" represented in the forum posting group, its worth noting how much agreement there is regarding this topic..

So many good ideas of things that would actually improve the whole clone mechanic, at least some of them must be possible to consider instead of these endless band aid patchings? Most of the ones mentioned arent even that "huge" a challenge code wise, since its practically already half in, as are so many features it seems..

Also as mentioned more destruction means a lot more content and countering of stock-flation. Also adding some sort of long term isk sink instead of the one time skill costs really should go on the radar as I mentioned in an earlier post.. This is a great point where ccp can tweak many lateral elements at once, it seems stupid not to use the opportunity.
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#488 - 2013-08-11 13:32:43 UTC
Please stop adding new skills to make the game less annoying. Just make the game less annoying...

PS - just remove attribute implants completely and and base training times accordingly.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Smoking Blunts
ZC Omega
#489 - 2013-08-11 17:49:00 UTC
any chance we can get a skill that reduces the cost of new clones by 10% per lvl?. make it rank 10 or something and 250mil for the book

OMG when can i get a pic here
Dysgenesis
Dhoomcats
#490 - 2013-08-11 18:24:26 UTC
I like both of these skills, the reasoning for reducing Jump clone timer by only 1 hour per level is sound imo. Having just trained Infomorph Psychology to V, I would really like some more clones.
BugraT WarheaD
#491 - 2013-08-11 21:57:18 UTC  |  Edited by: BugraT WarheaD
Have you ever think of ... I don't know ... Removing the JC system from the game ?
Reppyk
The Black Shell
#492 - 2013-08-11 22:27:15 UTC
BugraT WarheaD wrote:
Have you ever think of ... I don't know ... Removing the JC system from the game ?
+1.

Implants were made to specialize further your toon. 10 jump clones ? That's 110 implants... In my head.
And they are part of the "force projection" madness that nobody, even Rise or Fozzie, tried to nerf.

I AM SPACE CAPTAIN REPPYK. BEWARE.

Proud co-admin of frugu.net, a French fansite about EVE !
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#493 - 2013-08-12 05:21:33 UTC
Reppyk wrote:
BugraT WarheaD wrote:
Have you ever think of ... I don't know ... Removing the JC system from the game ?
+1.

Implants were made to specialize further your toon. 10 jump clones ? That's 110 implants... In my head.
And they are part of the "force projection" madness that nobody, even Rise or Fozzie, tried to nerf.

Because nerfing "force projection" reduces the possibility of large fights, which are a staple of EVE.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Balzac Legazou
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#494 - 2013-08-12 05:33:50 UTC
Victor Rayl wrote:
Akturous wrote:
Now just add the ability to store all your clones in one station and hot swap them with no or very little cooldown and I'll love you long time.

Why not just make implants unpluggable then? Switching implants is the only valid use of your proposal and I'm against it for obvious reasons.


Making them unpluggable would allow you to sell them again, or transfer them to a different character. Allowing JC swaps in-station (with no cooldown) would not.
Balzac Legazou
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#495 - 2013-08-12 05:45:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Balzac Legazou
FT Diomedes wrote:
Please stop adding new skills to make the game less annoying. Just make the game less annoying...


Move with the times, man. Trolling is the new game design, and waiting is the new gameplay. I hear the next version of Android will cut off all your calls at 30 seconds, until you press an icon and wait 19 days for it to train "Working Properly V". Users are really excited about being given that opportunity to fix... er, I mean interactively improve their phones.
Caleb Ayrania
TarNec
Invisible Exchequer
#496 - 2013-08-12 08:11:26 UTC
One of the things I would really like to replace current jump clone mechanics, is something that takes over from the whole alts usage..

Jump clones should be "unique" new versions of your character, with hyper fast training times boosted by originals level. Thus if your original had level 5 you would get training time 5 times faster on the jump clone. (Maybe JC should not have inject skills not on original)

The clone could be in other corps, but not in npc corps. JC affiliations would be shown as normal in corp history.

With something like this a lot of new mechanics and dynamics could arise, and force projection would be partially nerfed, yet not in a totally disruptive way.

Jumping to clones would have transmission cost based on range and cost of the target clone, thus adding an isk sink that lasts. Base cost to clone jump could simply be the target clones total skill points. Jumping back to "Original" would always be free.

Cool down could be based directly on the clones. So the cool down would depend on the skill points of the Jump Clone. No cool down on the original.

Some added benefits from this line of thinking could be that it would give the mechanic for a mentoring based boosting of training times to new characters linking up with higher skilled corp and alliance members. A mentoring link skill could have 1-5 mentees linked, and boost skill training 10-50% based on skill level difference.

Also letting the Jump Clones be more like a totally different character would be interested in future ideas regarding WiS.

Just a few thoughts, generally without some proper changes to Jump clones I see them merely as a bad fast travel system and reduction of risk of loss regarding implants.
P J Sapphire
Reckless-Endangerment
Manifesto.
#497 - 2013-08-12 11:37:19 UTC  |  Edited by: P J Sapphire
The Jump portion of changing clones is not really an issue for me. I do not mind 24 hours when I want to change locations. The pain in the ass for me is changing clones in the same station when my corporation or alliance needs me to participate in PVP and I am stuck in an expensive PVE clone. Being able to change the clone every 19 hours is not going to make a hell of beans to many of us. I cannot speak for everyone, but very rarely do I have to relocate from Null to High sec. Living in Null, I spend most of my time on my characters in a clone with zero implants due to the spontaneity of PVP action. Nothing is worse than having a full 100 Million worth of implants in your clone and not be able to switch into your PVP clone to participate in combat when a fleet enters your system or region. Having to just sit there and watch what happens from inside the station is not what I log into Eve to do.

Leave the jump portion at 24 hours if you want, if you think a new skill lowering it to 19 will help, then we can just agree to disagree. The real issue is the changing of implants, or the ability to switch clones in a station at will. If you are not going to allow us to have more than one clone in the same station, and switch between them as developing situations arise, then at least let us unplug implants without them being destroyed. To minimize the impact on the market of implant sales, you can lock unplugged implants to the character they were removed from so that you cannot unplug and trade, or repackage/resell them.

If we could switch implants, then that would allow us to plug in our training implants upon logging off and plug in our PVP/PVE implants when we log back in. That would be AWESOME IMO!!!!

Just my 2 cents
Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#498 - 2013-08-12 11:46:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Zappity
Or, just get rid of training implants. They are one of the most awful mechanics in the game.

Replace them with boosters. At least add learning boosters (can't be used in combination with an attribute implant).

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
Stealth Manufacture
24th Imperial Crusade
Amarr Empire
#499 - 2013-08-12 11:57:16 UTC
This doesn't really make a big difference. 24h or 19h. It doesn't really matter.
Nocturnal Phantom
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#500 - 2013-08-12 18:31:54 UTC
Stealth Manufacture wrote:
This doesn't really make a big difference. 24h or 19h. It doesn't really matter.



Agreed, 19hrs would still feel 'almost' the same as 24hrs... Perhaps reducing it to 9hrs cooldown at level V or even 5hrs. Now, if there was some way to make the skillbook cost 500mil-1bil ISK...