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New dev blog: Death to the session change timer!

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Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices
Masters of Flying Objects
#41 - 2011-11-11 19:12:54 UTC
CCP Atlas wrote:
Absent Sentry wrote:
CCP Atlas wrote:
Raid'En wrote:
nice change !

and as stated before, i would love a timer visible for invulnerability, agression etc... at the same place as the current session timer

Yes, all the different timers that are in the game are quite confusing and inconsistent with how (and if) they're shown. I've seen some designs floating around which attempt to consolidate them all visually at some point in the future but I can't make any promises.


One thing I would really like is the actual time remaining for session change being shown without having to mouse over it. There is a ton of extra space to the right of the timer with the new information layout, and "scaring" new players with timers shouldn't be an issue since you have to enable it manually in the first place. As it stands now, you basically have no mouse if you're checking the actual seconds remaining.


That one is getting changed for this coming release. The session change timer will be a progress-bar thing rather than a spinning thing.

Nice great change.

Will it become an always on feature or a turn on feature. I ask becouse all the stuff that is turned off should be on from the beginning. Learning to turn them on is a part of the learning cliff that needs to be removed.

If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide

See you around the universe.
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#42 - 2011-11-11 19:16:21 UTC
you and your clicky games!

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.
Absent Sentry
#43 - 2011-11-11 19:24:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Absent Sentry
CCP Atlas wrote:
Absent Sentry wrote:
One thing I would really like is the actual time remaining for session change being shown without having to mouse over it. There is a ton of extra space to the right of the timer with the new information layout, and "scaring" new players with timers shouldn't be an issue since you have to enable it manually in the first place. As it stands now, you basically have no mouse if you're checking the actual seconds remaining.


That one is getting changed for this coming release. The session change timer will be a progress-bar thing rather than a spinning thing.


Close enough for me, and thanks again. Main issue I would worry about with a progress bar is the same desync/offset weirdness I see with the ones for modules, though. Would be a bit awkward to have the session change timer's end actually be somewhere in the middle x.X
VonKolroth
Anarchist's Anonymous
#44 - 2011-11-11 19:27:45 UTC
Swearte Widfarend wrote:
Bienator II wrote:
The session timer spinner is a little bit to generic and far to technical, i suppose most who don't do station games, or fly in nullsec or losec on a day to day basis even don't know that you can enable it in the options.

Fixed your post.



----EDIT----
Rather than double post, I'll mention some potential issues from a friend of mine DKM.

1). With the difference in session change and invulnerability, a jump freighter can now jump through a gate, and cyno out while still invisible, without a chance of being tackled.

2) Carriers can undock from a station and jump out (as long as there is no bubble) or redock without a chance of being tackled.

These are SERIOUS issues with this change - moreso than my little visible difference.


I would assume the invulnerability timer would be obsolete should the session timer be eliminated altogether. It would just no longer be needed. My guess is that it will stay put if only because of the rage that would happen if it was to go away. It doesn't matter to me if it's 30 secs or 3 secs in high-sec. If someone knows how to make a decent fast undock bookmark, they can get out of a station, even in something as large as a freighter.

How this affects capital ships, cynos, and space where bubbles are the rule of interdiction, things are a bit different for the reasons stated above. Those should be addressed.

Personally, I've always wanted to see a redesign of stations and their involved mechanics that includes a docking area that isn't particularly close to the undock. Add the ability to look out of the station (When will we have this technology?) and the only people who lose are *smug* people who play station games. If I was designing such a thing, I'd kill the dock button and make a timer. Sit in the docking area for X seconds and your docked, keeping people from using it as some kind safe zone and otherwise keeping the area full of pilots with commitment issues.

Sent from my Gallente Erabus Titan on -FA- SRP
Raid'En
#45 - 2011-11-11 19:35:15 UTC
Centra Spike wrote:
So now there is no chance to stop a capital ship from undocking and jumping out. Good change CCP.

as has said there were already no chance if the pilot wasn't lagging. won't change anything.
XIRUSPHERE
In Bacon We Trust
#46 - 2011-11-11 19:36:47 UTC  |  Edited by: XIRUSPHERE
I will keep repeating this because of the hotfix from yesterday. If CCP can fix mechanics in the span of DAYS because incursion bears had a modicum of risk injected into their runaway ISK faucet why can't CCP fix glaring problems with mechanics in the same swoop. Case in point is logi not inheriting a session penalty for RR allowing logi to remain effectively invincible on station and star gates.

If they can do that to the aggression mechanics that fast why are people allowed to dock ships with aggro into carriers and play worthless games. It would seem the writing is on the wall as far as the fact that CCP is going to turn this game into dumbed down candy land where knowledge of mechanics is usurped by hand holding and faceted with bullshit loopholes that let the risk adverse have their cake and eat it too.

You already nerfed suicides and kickouts into oblivion, now you get to dock before your invulnerability is even cycled out. If it is your true intention to make non consensual combat in this game near stations a thing of the past or allow for invulnerable loopholes make your intentions clear now. All I see is compromises being made for people who can't be assed to learn about the game they are playing.

The advantage of a bad memory is that one can enjoy the same good things for the first time several times.

One will rarely err if extreme actions be ascribed to vanity, ordinary actions to habit, and mean actions to fear.
mkint
#47 - 2011-11-11 19:40:36 UTC
XIRUSPHERE wrote:
I will keep repeating this because of the hotfix from yesterday. If CCP can fix mechanics in the span of DAYS because incursion bears had a modicum of risk injected into their runaway ISK faucet why can't CCP fix glaring problems with mechanics in the same swoop. Case in point is logi not inheriting a session penalty for RR allowing logi to remain effectively invincible on station and star gates.

If they can do that to the aggression mechanics that fast why are people allowed to dock ships with aggro into carriers and play worthless games. It would seem the writing is on the wall as far as the fact that CCP is going to turn this game into dumbed down candy land where knowledge of mechanics is usurped by hand holding and faceted with bullshit loopholes that let the risk adverse have their cake and eat it too.

You already nerfed suicides and kickouts into oblivion, now you get to dock before your invulnerability is even cycled out. If it is your true intention to make non consensual combat in this game near stations a thing of the past or allow for invulnerable loopholes make your intentions clear now. All I see is compromises being made for people who can't be assed to learn about the game they are playing.

firstly: griefer tears is best tears

secondly, the logi and carrier points are actually some damned good points. Drenched in some sweet sweet tears, but still some good points.

Maxim 6. If violence wasn’t your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it.
Melissa Blick
Blick Family Enterprises
#48 - 2011-11-11 19:46:10 UTC
Can we get different icons showing the session change timer and the invulnerability timer? Or maybe the same icon as now, but different colors. Perhaps yellow for session change, which turns blue when still invulnerable, and disappears completely when it runs out.
XIRUSPHERE
In Bacon We Trust
#49 - 2011-11-11 19:47:25 UTC
I wish I had tears to give you space friend as they make for great lube, my only aim is to expose lop sided mechanics changes that make the game safer overall while loopholes that have been pretty ridiculous are left to exist which are also silly and soft in nature. If they want to bring the hammer down on mechanics it needs to be done equally.

I would like to hear any proposals about making the game more dangerous overall rather than making it safer and easier.

The advantage of a bad memory is that one can enjoy the same good things for the first time several times.

One will rarely err if extreme actions be ascribed to vanity, ordinary actions to habit, and mean actions to fear.
Raivi
State War Academy
Caldari State
#50 - 2011-11-11 19:49:34 UTC
Reducing the session timer is an excellent improvement to make, and I can totally understand why the invulnerability timer needs to stay intact for people with slow computers or high latency connections.

That being said, the fact that this is a collateral buff to docking games should be used as motivation to bump the redesign of these mechanics up in priority. If you guys at CCP could make a docking games redesign a target for the spring expansion or even a leter Crucible patch that would be great.
mkint
#51 - 2011-11-11 19:57:14 UTC
Andski wrote:
i got 102 clicks, beat me~

132

It detects both right and left mouse clicks... 4 fingers blasting away.

Maxim 6. If violence wasn’t your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it.
Brain Gehirn
Macabre Votum
Northern Coalition.
#52 - 2011-11-11 19:57:33 UTC
Now PLEASE fix the locking delay that make cloaky ships "totally invulnerable". Twisted
VonKolroth
Anarchist's Anonymous
#53 - 2011-11-11 20:05:48 UTC
Brain Gehirn wrote:
Now PLEASE fix the locking delay that make cloaky ships "totally invulnerable". Twisted


Oooo, that's a really good point.

Sent from my Gallente Erabus Titan on -FA- SRP
Tiger's Spirit
Templars of the Shadows
#54 - 2011-11-11 20:31:23 UTC
Brain Gehirn wrote:
Now PLEASE fix the locking delay that make cloaky ships "totally invulnerable". Twisted



No. Increase 1 minute deaggro timer at station.
Zendoren
Aktaeon Industries
#55 - 2011-11-11 20:38:23 UTC
Should have a game mechanic that detects **** talking in local and if said pilot un-docks he/she is unable to re-dock for 5 min! Twisted

❒ Single ❒ Taken ✔ Playing EVE Online

CCP Guard > Where's the shoot button on this thing?

CCP Space Cadet > What's this "offline guns" button do?
Archetype 66
Perkone
Caldari State
#56 - 2011-11-11 20:44:54 UTC
Don't display invunerability timers :(( You're making this game too user friendly.
For now 90% believe that the invul timer is 30 sec after jumping threw à gate and ignore it after jump-drive.
Grath Telkin
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#57 - 2011-11-11 20:45:10 UTC
CCP Gaurd

For 8 years we've been asking you to fix the dumb that is "Station Docking Games".


So you made it worse?

I mean seriously, in one swift motion you've made station docking games infinitely worse, instead of that brief second where you might catch somebody asleep at the wheel you now give them a full 10 seconds to dock with complete immunity.

So instead of actually fixing what we asked you to fix, you compounded the problem and made it infinitely worse than it was before?

Dear CCP, please FIX docking games, this does not mean any of the followin -

1) Increased docking range by massive amounts.

2) give them 10 seconds of absolute immunity on the undock


What it does mean is that you make undocking have meaningful consequences, something you're going out of your way to purposely strip from the game. This is not what you've been asked to do.


Realistically, if you actually wanted to FIX station docking games, you'd flip your intended change so that you had 20 seconds of immunity and a 30 second station redock timer. THAT would instantly fix all station docking games, knowing that if you choose to undock, you have 10 seconds where you and your ship are vulnerable.

But instead you make things worse, thanks for that.

Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Archetype 66
Perkone
Caldari State
#58 - 2011-11-11 20:46:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Archetype 66
Archetype 66 wrote:
Don't display invunerability timers :(( You're making this game too user friendly.
For now 90% of eve's player beleive that the invul timer is 30 sec after jumping threw à gate and ignore it after jump-drive.


Just make all invul timers shorter than session change timers. + warp scrambling prevent to jump or dock Twisted
Untelo1
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#59 - 2011-11-11 21:34:04 UTC
Hey this is pretty cool. Apart from the fact that you can no longer die on the undock. Either change the session change time on undock back to 30 seconds or fix the station docking radius so that the moment you undock you are outside docking range.
Grath Telkin
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#60 - 2011-11-11 21:37:31 UTC
Did you seriously go to bed when all the people started pointing out the huge exploitable holes in this new change?


Also how is it that you, the game developers, can't see the obvious exploits this allows before you even present us with the change?

You make the game, how can you not see this stuff?

Why are low sec cap ships being made completely immune to any form of aggression now?


Camped in a station? No problem, undock your carrier and just jump out while the enemy stares at you and you're completely immune.

Jump your unscouted jump freighter into a camp? No problem, while you're still invisible just light that cyno and jump out, the only thing anybody else gets to see is a flash from your invisible jump freighter leaving system.

War dec'd by the privateers and stuck in Jita? No problem, undock your Jump freighter and jump straight to lowsec, once you arrive you have more than enough time and are COMPLETELY IMMUNE to any form of aggression while you just redock and repeat the process.


Who in CCP thought this was a good idea?

Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.