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we need mini nukes...

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Plastic Psycho
Necro-Economics
#161 - 2013-08-11 23:19:23 UTC
Actually, they're arguing in their own interests. If we had BillionBombs, very soon the game would be a wasteland, and their fun would stop.

Call it enlightened self-interest; the best kind of self-interest.
Trii Seo
Goonswarm Federation
#162 - 2013-08-11 23:42:44 UTC
True! If we obliterated them with endless nukes, there would be no-one left to nuke tomorrow. Hey, it got into the serious part of the thread!

It's the hallmark of a great leader to rally others with your voice, to push redcross-shooting sheep into a banzai charge the likes of which happened in 6VDT. The change of mentality is necessary to truly attack anyone - a pilot needs to accept being blown up, and the proper response to "You will die" is "I don't care, as long as I take more with me."

...because in reality, anything that would happen would be banzai charge that would be slaughtered by a rookie Fleet Commander. Burning through the system sov of an entity like the CFC without capital support sounds borderline impossible, and not the sort of impossible you can just wing and be smug afterwards.

By the time someone's mentality shifts to that, he ceases to be a carebear - he becomes much like a line coalition pilot. All in all, the entire operation, spare for some grudge against a particular alliance and a lot of poasting, sounds like any small entity that harasses the CFC (and most of them do much more than blasting random cynoships.)

Proud pilot of the Imperium

Arek'Jaalan: Heliograph
Mayhaw Morgan
State War Academy
Caldari State
#163 - 2013-08-12 00:00:18 UTC
Plastic Psycho wrote:
Actually, they're arguing in their own interests. If we had BillionBombs, very soon the game would be a wasteland, and their fun would stop.

Call it enlightened self-interest; the best kind of self-interest.


Hey, ummmm, random forum person who is in no way affiliated with the CFC, how do you know so much about the CFC and what is in their interests? Just out of curiosity. What makes you so sure they wouldn't like to just destroy everything and blow everyone up, but in the best interest of the game and other players, are advocating against changes that would allow them to do just that?
Daedalus Kitaran
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#164 - 2013-08-12 00:22:18 UTC
Trii Seo wrote:
You know what, totally support this idea.

The [Faction] "Darwin" Billionbomb:
"Stick it to the man!"

Volume: 3000m^3
Explosion Radius: 500km
Signature Radius: 1m (It needs to hit even pods for full damage, of course!)
Damage: 1,000,000 HP EM (Blood Raider)/Kinetic (Guristas)/Thermal (Serpentis) or Explosive (Domination)
Restrictions: Cannot be fired, just detonated while in hold. Will vaporize the owner's ship and hurl his ass, still on fire, away from the mayhem so he can watch. Can be used in all of space.

"The pirate factions of New Eden long warned the Empire that if they start rewarding Capsuleers for hunting down their own, bad things will happen. Tags4Sec program was the straw that broke the camel's back, and all four turned to the likeminded pod pilots for help - providing them, as immortals, with blueprints of bombs that would remind High Security Space just what exactly fear is."

Blueprint:
~1b worth of minerals to build, perfect skills will reduce to 999,999.99 million ISK (+ tax, of course. Gotta pay The Man!)
Available FREE at your local NPC pirate station!
30 days build time.

(At this point honestly I still don't know if harry is trolling or is he really trying to do something.)


What if you changed the explosion radius to 100m * pilot's age in active subscription days, to reduce jihad alts?
Also add the penalty of the pilot being biomassed after all killmails are generated.
Plastic Psycho
Necro-Economics
#165 - 2013-08-12 00:38:55 UTC
Mayhaw Morgan wrote:
Plastic Psycho wrote:
Actually, they're arguing in their own interests. If we had BillionBombs, very soon the game would be a wasteland, and their fun would stop.

Call it enlightened self-interest; the best kind of self-interest.


Hey, ummmm, random forum person who is in no way affiliated with the CFC, how do you know so much about the CFC and what is in their interests? Just out of curiosity. What makes you so sure they wouldn't like to just destroy everything and blow everyone up, but in the best interest of the game and other players, are advocating against changes that would allow them to do just that?

Are you new here, or something?
Mayhaw Morgan
State War Academy
Caldari State
#166 - 2013-08-12 01:19:42 UTC
Plastic Psycho wrote:
Are you new here, or something?


I see what you're saying and I think you may be on to something.

You are proposing that rather than just win the game outright by dominating everything to the point that CCP literally has to "nerf Goons", the CFC would like to preserve the current game balance as it is both incredibly favorable to them and being the "status quo", it requires a critical mass of ideas/people/events to get changed. I think what you are saying is that some drastic addition to the game like a "mini-nuke" or some sort of doomsday device would force their hand. They would either have to use such a device and thus make their dominance far more apparent, or they'd have to risk the possibility of their enemies using it against them first in order to preserve the CFC's image as "the good guys". This would be especially dangerous since a "doomsday" device might actually be able to turn the tide of an engagement, and if used strategically, could even turn the tide of an entire war.

Yes, I think you are correct. It IS in the best interest of the CFC to argue against any sort of "doomsday" device. The only thing that is confusing me is how that is in some way an "enlightened" point of view.
Yang Aurilen
State War Academy
Caldari State
#167 - 2013-08-12 01:57:15 UTC
Trii Seo wrote:
You know what, totally support this idea.

The [Faction] "Darwin" Billionbomb:
"Stick it to the man!"

Volume: 3000m^3
Explosion Radius: 500km
Signature Radius: 1m (It needs to hit even pods for full damage, of course!)
Damage: 1,000,000 HP EM (Blood Raider)/Kinetic (Guristas)/Thermal (Serpentis) or Explosive (Domination)
Restrictions: Cannot be fired, just detonated while in hold. Will vaporize the owner's ship and hurl his ass, still on fire, away from the mayhem so he can watch. Can be used in all of space.

"The pirate factions of New Eden long warned the Empire that if they start rewarding Capsuleers for hunting down their own, bad things will happen. Tags4Sec program was the straw that broke the camel's back, and all four turned to the likeminded pod pilots for help - providing them, as immortals, with blueprints of bombs that would remind High Security Space just what exactly fear is."

Blueprint:
~1b worth of minerals to build, perfect skills will reduce to 999,999.99 million ISK (+ tax, of course. Gotta pay The Man!)
Available FREE at your local NPC pirate station!
30 days build time.

(At this point honestly I still don't know if harry is trolling or is he really trying to do something.)


Too OP man. Make it only buildable in Sov Null. That was good ole' Harry can have his precious bombs protected by CFC while under construction.

Post with your NPC alt main and not your main main alt!
Terranid Meester
Tactical Assault and Recon Unit
#168 - 2013-08-12 02:18:17 UTC
No we don't
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#169 - 2013-08-12 02:21:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Mayhaw Morgan wrote:
Stuff

Yes, I think you are correct. It IS in the best interest of the CFC to argue against any sort of "doomsday" device. The only thing that is confusing me is how that is in some way an "enlightened" point of view.

It's enlightened in that Goons want to ruin your game, not the game. Eve is one of the few games that allows Goons to be Goons, if such a weapon was made available it would ruin the game for everybody, including them.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Mayhaw Morgan
State War Academy
Caldari State
#170 - 2013-08-12 05:04:59 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
1. It's enlightened in that Goons want to ruin your game, 2. not the game. 3. Eve is one of the few games that allows Goons to be Goons, 4. if such a weapon was made available it would ruin the game for everybody, including them.


Hi, random forum person who is totally, completely, and wholely unconnected to the CFC and has no vested interest in defending them whatsoever and whose participation in this discussion is motivated by completely different reasons than those of the CFC.

Yeah, so, your comment was enlightening, but I had a few questions about it:

1. How is it that they are trying to ruin MY game versus THE game? What makes you think this is the case? Have you interviewed CFC members? What is the special insight you have into their mindset?

2. Is there really a difference between ruining everybody's game but theirs and just ruining everybody's game? Wouldn't you say that to a certain extent, the enjoyment of 1 player in a game depends on the enjoyment of the other players?

3. What aspects of being a "Goon" are disallowed from most games? Why do you think other games disallow them from expressing that? How do you know this, given that you are not a "Goon"? Do you have psychic powers? How is this relevant to a discussion about a supposed "mini-nuke"? Do you propose that a "doomsday" weapon would interfere with the Goons ability to be Goons in EVE Online?

4. In what sense would a "doomsday" weapon ruin THE game? Given that the Goons could field a virtually unlimited number of these weapons, how would their game play be ruined, specifically? How would it ruin the game play of those people (such as yourself) who are NOT Goons, specifically?

You seem to be making a lot of assertions, and that is very helpful to efficient communication. I thank you for that.
Trii Seo
Goonswarm Federation
#171 - 2013-08-12 05:49:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Trii Seo
1. They will try to make whatever your favorite activity is impossible and laugh at you while you try (and likely die, following which laugh at your fitting/pod in public).
2. Yup, take hisec ice miners in Caldari space now vs. interdiction pilots. The latter are having a blast, the former not so much - given how used they are to safety of hisec, their game is getting ruined at the moment.
3. Edit: Misread - they'd run out of people to murder, simple.
4. The same way titan AoE DDs ruined the game for those who weren't the guys in titans. Or tracking titans for that matter.

And, if we're talking political differences, worth noting CFC != Goons. "Goon" applies ONLY to the members of Goonswarm Federation, whose members recruit from Something Awful (the actual reason they are Goons, and one can be a Goon without being in GSF.)

CFC includes multiple alliances allied with GSF but still considered separate entities that have their own culture.

Proud pilot of the Imperium

Arek'Jaalan: Heliograph
Mayhaw Morgan
State War Academy
Caldari State
#172 - 2013-08-12 07:04:27 UTC
Trii Seo wrote:
1. They will try to make whatever your favorite activity is impossible and laugh at you while you try (and likely die, following which laugh at your fitting/pod in public).
2. Yup, take hisec ice miners in Caldari space now vs. interdiction pilots. The latter are having a blast, the former not so much - given how used they are to safety of hisec, their game is getting ruined at the moment.
3. Edit: Misread - they'd run out of people to murder, simple.
4. The same way titan AoE DDs ruined the game for those who weren't the guys in titans. Or tracking titans for that matter.


1. What is the functional difference between ruining MY game and ruining THE game?
2. What is the functional difference between ruining an ice miner's game and ruining THE game?
3. We're immortal, in game. Also, couldn't they just start murdering eachother? Also, wouldn't murdering more people faster equate to more fun?
4. What is the functional difference between ruining a non-titan-pilot's game (with titan AoE DDs and tracking titans) and ruining THE game?

I don't think I was very concise in my questions. Let me try again:

Mayhaw Morgan wrote:
1. Why do you think the Goons only want to ruin MY game? Why do you think the Goons don't want to ruin THE game? If ruining others' game was their objective, then wouldn't ruining the entire game be the most efficient means to that end?

2. How is ruining even a single person's game not the same thing as ruining THE game? Consider a player, Jim, who has just downloaded two games, EVE Online and some other MMO. He chooses to try EVE first, and gets ganked immediately because "rofl lol haha scrub!". So, he decides to think about that experience and in the meantime, loads up the other MMO to try that one out. Now, having so much fun in the other MMO, he forgets about EVE and never comes back, and so will never contribute anything to our game play again. Has that not diminished THE game of EVE?

3. What makes people not like "Goons"? What consequences do "Goons" face in other games for being bad? What consequences do they face in EVE? What consequences SHOULD they face, if any?

4. In what sense did the AoE "doomsday" weapon ruin THE game? Given that the Goons could field a virtually unlimited number of these weapons, how was their game play be ruined, specifically? How did it ruin the game play of those people who were NOT Goons, specifically?
Plastic Psycho
Necro-Economics
#173 - 2013-08-12 07:20:38 UTC
Mayhaw Morgan wrote:
Plastic Psycho wrote:
Are you new here, or something?


I see what you're saying and I think you may be on to something.

You are proposing that rather than just win the game outright by dominating everything to the point that CCP literally has to "nerf Goons", the CFC would like to preserve the current game balance as it is both incredibly favorable to them and being the "status quo", it requires a critical mass of ideas/people/events to get changed. I think what you are saying is that some drastic addition to the game like a "mini-nuke" or some sort of doomsday device would force their hand. They would either have to use such a device and thus make their dominance far more apparent, or they'd have to risk the possibility of their enemies using it against them first in order to preserve the CFC's image as "the good guys". This would be especially dangerous since a "doomsday" device might actually be able to turn the tide of an engagement, and if used strategically, could even turn the tide of an entire war.

Yes, I think you are correct. It IS in the best interest of the CFC to argue against any sort of "doomsday" device. The only thing that is confusing me is how that is in some way an "enlightened" point of view.

Enlightened self-interest is self-interest with a deeper understanding of cause and effect. It in no way means that the exercise of such self interest is 'enlightened' in a spiritual manner, or even in an honorable manner, merely that its use reflects a deeper understanding that allows the individual or oganization to make seemingly non-intuitive choices that bring them greater benefit them in the longer run; than those of seemingly more obvious and pragmatic choices which have immediate gain, but cause long-term loss.

CFC are not nihilists. The BillionBomb is only really useful to nihilists; therefore it is in CFC's interests to oppose such a tool, despite the hilarity of its potential.

IOW, it's TOO big a hammer.
Trii Seo
Goonswarm Federation
#174 - 2013-08-12 07:47:21 UTC
Mayhaw Morgan wrote:

1. What is the functional difference between ruining MY game and ruining THE game?
2. What is the functional difference between ruining an ice miner's game and ruining THE game?
3. We're immortal, in game. Also, couldn't they just start murdering eachother? Also, wouldn't murdering more people faster equate to more fun?
4. What is the functional difference between ruining a non-titan-pilot's game (with titan AoE DDs and tracking titans) and ruining THE game?


1. If they ruined THE game, they'd ruin it for themselves and friends. They don't want to do it to themselves, or their blues - only bad 'pubbies'.
2. Said ice miner is a target of their game of ruining the game of others. Their way of playing it, enjoying it, is to make him stop undocking. His is to sit in a belt and mine, slowly gain wealth. They block his way of playing, make it impossible - thus, ruin it.
3. No - murdering fellow goons or allies is considered bad. You ride with your allies and pitchfork the outsiders, not the other way around. (Sides from "Shoot blues, tell Vile Rat" events I guess, and hilarious bombing accidents.)
4. It makes the playstyle of non-titan-pilot unfeasible and impossible to enjoy unless you're into losing a lot of ships for no kills whatsoever.

It was said - they don't want a wasteland in which all non-goons have quit.

Proud pilot of the Imperium

Arek'Jaalan: Heliograph
cyndrogen
The Greatest Corp in the Universe
#175 - 2013-08-12 07:57:30 UTC
Harry Forever wrote:
CCP needs to support individuals who want to go big

I'm thinking of a nukebomb at the price of 1 billion

100.000 HP damager on a 40k radius



You're a clown. lol

Every day in every way I improve my skills and get better.
Harry Forever
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#176 - 2013-08-12 08:00:29 UTC
cyndrogen wrote:
Harry Forever wrote:
CCP needs to support individuals who want to go big

I'm thinking of a nukebomb at the price of 1 billion

100.000 HP damager on a 40k radius



You're a clown. lol


right, it should be 100k radius, sorry for that...

Harry Forever vs. Goonswarm
Harry Forever
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#177 - 2013-08-12 08:05:31 UTC
I'm happy that the mini nukes spread so much fear in new eden

I'm not scared somebody will use this weapon against me, guess why

this bomb is there to break up those big groups that have become cancer to this game

PS: I updated the radius of the bomb to 100k

Harry Forever vs. Goonswarm
Yaturi
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#178 - 2013-08-12 08:12:26 UTC
My ship, the Terrapin, has a 7km smartbomb radius and 2 bomb launchers...just sayin
Trii Seo
Goonswarm Federation
#179 - 2013-08-12 08:13:39 UTC
Harry Forever wrote:
I'm happy that the mini nukes spread so much fear in new eden

I'm not scared somebody will use this weapon against me, guess why

this bomb is there to break up those big groups that have become cancer to this game

PS: I updated the radius of the bomb to 100k


Fear? Why we all approve! Bring it on!

Big groups that generate massive battles such as 6VDT or Asakai and bring EVE publicity.
Leadership structures that provide content to thousands of players.
Conflicts that span multiple layers, from massive fleet battles to covert warfare and provide content to people that enjoy all aspects of Spreadsheets in Space.
Heists that make the news headlines.

This has got to be the best cancer ever.

Proud pilot of the Imperium

Arek'Jaalan: Heliograph
Plastic Psycho
Necro-Economics
#180 - 2013-08-12 08:24:31 UTC
Harry Forever wrote:
I'm happy that the mini nukes spread so much fear in new eden

I'm not scared somebody will use this weapon against me, guess why

this bomb is there to break up those big groups that have become cancer to this game

PS: I updated the radius of the bomb to 100k

The above statement underlines your utter failure: It won't break up the groups that have become a "cancer" (your label, not mine); It will be a positive BOON to them. Nihilists would run rampant, and destroy not only the things you loathe, but the things you love as well.

What you propose is so hilariously dangerous that even Goons & CFC - the very groups most likely to be able to afford to actually use them - agree that the BillionBomb is a threat to the game.

In short: You'd ruin the game for everyone.