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Rokh vs. Raven for Lvl4's
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PhatController
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1 - 2013-08-08 02:55:59 UTC
Looking at trying a few level fours, I have better gunnery skills than missiles, so trying to decide weather I should look at a rokh, or stick with the tried and true raven.

My shield skills are mostly at lvl4 and a couple lvl 5's and cap skills mostly at lvl 4. My gunnery skills are mostly at lvl 4 vs missile skills at mostly lvl 3.

The fits I'm looking at are below:

Raven:
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I

"Adaptive Invulnerability Field II" -Mission specific hardeners
"Adaptive Invulnerability Field II"
"Adaptive Invulnerability Field II"
"Adaptive Invulnerability Field II"
Pith C-Type Large Shield Booster"
"Caldari Navy Shield Boost Amplifier"
"Caldari Navy Shield Boost Amplifier"

"Capacitor Flux Coil II"
"Capacitor Flux Coil II"
"Ballistic Control System II"
"Ballistic Control System II"
"Ballistic Control System II"

"Large Capacitor Control Circuit I"
"Large Capacitor Control Circuit I"
"Large Capacitor Control Circuit I"

Cap: 3m 53s
DPS 362 @ 144KM
Def: 408/565

My first thoughts are I could probably drop some of the CCC's for rigors and an invul for a Target painter?


Rokh:

"350mm Prototype Gauss Gun"
"350mm Prototype Gauss Gun"
"350mm Prototype Gauss Gun"
"350mm Prototype Gauss Gun"
"350mm Prototype Gauss Gun"
"350mm Prototype Gauss Gun"
"350mm Prototype Gauss Gun"

"Adaptive Invulnerability Field II" - Mission specific hardeners
"Adaptive Invulnerability Field II"
"Adaptive Invulnerability Field II"
Pith C-Type Large Shield Booster"
"Caldari Navy Shield Boost Amplifier"
"Tracking Computer II"

Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II

"Large Capacitor Control Circuit I"
"Large Capacitor Control Circuit I"
"Large Capacitor Control Circuit I"


Cap: 2m 18s
DPS 390 @ 40+34KM (antimatter)
Def: 61/461


My thoguhts are that the Rokh will have a lot more applied dps with all the tracking mods, although a much weaker tank?

Any thoughts appreciated.
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#2 - 2013-08-08 03:26:08 UTC
fit a micro jump drive and more gank mods.

that said I'd probably vote for the raven. has a free mid for whatever.
[Raven, Le Liang MJD]
Signal Amplifier II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II

Pithum C-Type Medium Shield Booster
Kinetic Deflection Field II
Kinetic Deflection Field II
Thermic Dissipation Field II
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Large Micro Jump Drive
[empty med slot]

'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Mjolnir Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Mjolnir Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Mjolnir Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Mjolnir Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Mjolnir Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Mjolnir Cruise Missile
[empty high slot]

Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I


Hobgoblin II x5
Hammerhead II x5

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
lilliann3
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#3 - 2013-08-08 15:16:18 UTC
Go with the raven...tracking disruptors will kill you in L4s....
Reese Armgo
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#4 - 2013-08-10 06:10:42 UTC
lilliann3 wrote:
Go with the raven...tracking disruptors will kill you in L4s....


While i agree to go with the Raven. Trackin disruption is only used by Sansha and sometimes Bloodraiders.
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#5 - 2013-08-10 06:38:57 UTC
Reese Armgo wrote:
lilliann3 wrote:
Go with the raven...tracking disruptors will kill you in L4s....


While i agree to go with the Raven. Trackin disruption is only used by Sansha and sometimes Bloodraiders.



And was supposed to start effecting missiles some time ago, and will in the future.

Right now the raven is the better boat. When (if ever) CCP gets balancing right, it wont be, as it is 2 notches lower on the totem pole.

Which is why it pays to learn all 4 races, all 5 weapons, armor and shield.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it
hellcane
Never Back Down
#6 - 2013-08-10 06:41:49 UTC
They have stopped talking about TD effecting missiles because they probably realized the enormous task involved in adding missiles to TE/TC(or adding new modules) and then balancing them.
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#7 - 2013-08-10 07:36:58 UTC
Quote:
When (if ever) CCP gets balancing right, it wont be, as it is 2 notches lower on the totem pole.


What totem pole?
PhatController
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#8 - 2013-08-10 09:18:52 UTC
Thinking of going for Scorpion Navy Issue instead, more dps, more tank and probably better applied dps with the extra mids being used for target painters.
The Spod
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2013-08-10 09:54:43 UTC
PhatController wrote:
Thinking of going for Scorpion Navy Issue instead, more dps, more tank and probably better applied dps with the extra mids being used for target painters.


3 warhead rigor rigs, 4 ballistics (at least 2 faction). Start from here.
PhatController
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#10 - 2013-08-10 14:08:08 UTC
The Spod wrote:
PhatController wrote:
Thinking of going for Scorpion Navy Issue instead, more dps, more tank and probably better applied dps with the extra mids being used for target painters.


3 warhead rigor rigs, 4 ballistics (at least 2 faction). Start from here.


That's the plan, and maybe a drone damage thing in the 5th low.
Steve Spooner
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#11 - 2013-08-10 17:40:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Steve Spooner
Or you can invest in a navy space potato, drop drones, afk, turn in mission. Rinse repeat. In terms of speed the Naga actually does more DPS than the Rokh which is sad and funny. Depending on the rats you're fighting if they're not serpentis or guristas you can 425mm rail fit a naga, load it with your ammo type of prefered range, and snipe them as they burn towards you.
PhatController
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#12 - 2013-08-10 17:44:58 UTC
Steve Spooner wrote:
Or you can invest in a navy space potato, drop drones, afk, turn in mission. Rinse repeat. In terms of speed the Naga actually does more DPS than the Rokh which is sad and funny. Depending on the rats you're fighting if they're not serpentis or guristas you can 425mm rail fit a naga, load it with your ammo type of prefered range, and snipe them as they burn towards you.



Not looking to cross train just atm. I used a naga with my 2nd account in a lvl 3 I was having difficulty with in a drake. The naga just about one shot everything, which were taking 4-5 volleys from the drake.
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#13 - 2013-08-10 17:55:30 UTC
Zhilia Mann wrote:
Quote:
When (if ever) CCP gets balancing right, it wont be, as it is 2 notches lower on the totem pole.


What totem pole?


I think he was referring to the old tier system that was used in Eve. The Rokh was the tier 3 battleship while the Raven was tier 1.

As far as what one is better... Go with the Raven unless you just want to fly the Rokh. It is far superior for mission running.
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#14 - 2013-08-10 18:16:12 UTC
IIshira wrote:
Zhilia Mann wrote:
Quote:
When (if ever) CCP gets balancing right, it wont be, as it is 2 notches lower on the totem pole.


What totem pole?


I think he was referring to the old tier system that was used in Eve. The Rokh was the tier 3 battleship while the Raven was tier 1.


Raven was never tier 1. Scorpion was tier 1, along with the Dominix, Armageddon, and Typhoon.

Regardless, we're supposed to be moving away from that system in the first place, so it rather makes no sense to say that the Rokh will be two notches better than the Raven when balancing is done. Quite the opposite; when balancing is done all ships are supposed to be more or less equally viable.
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#15 - 2013-08-10 18:23:11 UTC
Zhilia Mann wrote:
IIshira wrote:
Zhilia Mann wrote:
Quote:
When (if ever) CCP gets balancing right, it wont be, as it is 2 notches lower on the totem pole.


What totem pole?


I think he was referring to the old tier system that was used in Eve. The Rokh was the tier 3 battleship while the Raven was tier 1.


Raven was never tier 1. Scorpion was tier 1, along with the Dominix, Armageddon, and Typhoon.

Regardless, we're supposed to be moving away from that system in the first place, so it rather makes no sense to say that the Rokh will be two notches better than the Raven when balancing is done. Quite the opposite; when balancing is done all ships are supposed to be more or less equally viable.


You're right I forgot about the Scorpion... Oh what a nice EWAR ship! I'm not sure what he meant then.

The Rokh might be better than it is now after some buff but right now it kind of sucks for missions.

I think they're trying to make it where different ships do different things so one might be better for a specific purpose like missions but they will all be viable for their purpose. The Rokh was/ is a nice long range PVP sniper ship but it seems overshadowed by the attack battlecruiser class.
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#16 - 2013-08-10 18:38:52 UTC
IIshira wrote:
The Rokh might be better than it is now after some buff but right now it kind of sucks for missions.

I think they're trying to make it where different ships do different things so one might be better for a specific purpose like missions but they will all be viable for their purpose. The Rokh was/ is a nice long range PVP sniper ship but it seems overshadowed by the attack battlecruiser class.


Yeah, the problem is that the Rokh already got its balance pass along with the rest of the battleship lineup. We're looking at the new, improved Rokh already -- and it still isn't very good in any role that currently exists, PvE or PvP. Grid-breaking heavy sniper with barely enough cap just isn't a niche. Both Gallente rail ships outperform it in missions, ABCs do more for cheaper in sniper gangs -- plus they have mobility. And that's all ignoring the dominance of sentry drones in the first place.

Anyhow, yes, Raven is nice now. Too bad about the Rokh. But as long as on-grid warps and MJDs are a thing I think it's doomed to sit in hangars looking good.
mama guru
Yazatas.
#17 - 2013-08-10 19:55:51 UTC
Raven.


More consistant damage at all ranges.

Faster and more agile.

Can cover all 4 damage types, with higher DPS than a rail Rokh.

7 Midslots.


EVE online is the fishermans friend of MMO's. If it's too hard you are too weak.
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#18 - 2013-08-10 21:32:38 UTC
Rokh doesn't have a damage bonus.

I prefer Raven Navy Issue as it has higher DPS than a Raven. I've never understood the attraction of a Scorpion Navy issue: same gank as a plain Raven, but with more tank... tank that you don't need for missions.
Aleph Mersenne
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#19 - 2013-08-12 15:44:27 UTC
Tau Cabalander wrote:
Rokh doesn't have a damage bonus.

I prefer Raven Navy Issue as it has higher DPS than a Raven. I've never understood the attraction of a Scorpion Navy issue: same gank as a plain Raven, but with more tank... tank that you don't need for missions.

The SNI has its uses. Its gank is slightly better than a standard Raven as you can fit four BCUs without sacrificing tank, and it can better apply it's damage to small targets as you can put two rigors and a flare in the rig slots instead of capacitor control circuits. It can also lock at greater ranges even without using a sensor booster.

Its tank is great for a lower SP mission runner. Even with middling skills it can run every L4 without issue, and you don't need to panic if you accidentally aggro an entire room.

I'll be upgrading to an RNI at some point, but right now the SNI fits my needs perfectly.
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#20 - 2013-08-12 21:51:46 UTC
Aleph Mersenne wrote:
The SNI has its uses. Its gank is slightly better than a standard Raven as you can fit four BCUs without sacrificing tank, and it can better apply it's damage to small targets as you can put two rigors and a flare in the rig slots instead of capacitor control circuits. It can also lock at greater ranges even without using a sensor booster.

Its tank is great for a lower SP mission runner. Even with middling skills it can run every L4 without issue, and you don't need to panic if you accidentally aggro an entire room.

I'll be upgrading to an RNI at some point, but right now the SNI fits my needs perfectly.

For what it is worth, an old post of mine on a beginner Raven, as well has how to upgrade it, and pilot it:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=394780#post394780
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