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[Odyssey 1.1] Dominix bonus change

First post First post
Author
ELWhappo Sanchez
#241 - 2013-08-10 12:57:45 UTC
sad day Gallente used to be the drone boat and now they will be the we also have drones boat.
you can change domi's name to flower pot now while your at it.
thanks alot
Morrigan LeSante
Perkone
Caldari State
#242 - 2013-08-10 14:05:54 UTC
The domi was massively over-buffed and we all know it. It's more a shame this wasn't picked up in test.
Lugia3
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#243 - 2013-08-10 15:18:50 UTC
...And then a simultaneous cry from Gallente pilots all across New Eden was heard. The earth shook and cracked from all the tears.

"CCP Dolan is full of shit." - CCP Bettik

Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#244 - 2013-08-10 16:55:55 UTC
This is why CCP tend to balance things in small steps, because if they over buff something and have to take it back down a notch the wailing and gnashing of teeth can be heard for miles.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.

Peter Tjordenskiold
#245 - 2013-08-10 17:31:41 UTC
The domi isn'ty overpowered but the assist mechanic. In fact it's true for all drone ships. The point here is the code for drone mechanics is so old that CCP doesn't dare to touch this.
Saint Hecate
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#246 - 2013-08-10 19:13:10 UTC
I honestly hope this change doesn't go live. I could really understand if it was something like a Gun on a ship or missiles but the problem with drones is literally One stealth bomber dropping One bomb will take out All the sentries. You have a back up set you say? **** it, Drop another bomb! In small gang warfare it only takes one dude roaming around with a smart bomb to ruin your day as well :/.

In your latest post you stated that you are bringing them in line with guns. The problem with this logic i feel is that guns are not destructible. I can't float over to a maelstrom and snap his guns off. You Can float over to my sentries and murder them. Couple that with the Domi being a hefty battleship and during a CTA you are unlikely to be moving or you lose all your drones when your FC warps you out. I think the buff to the Domi finally brought it out of the shadow of the Megathron and I hope you dont destroy this positive change.

Here are my thoughts, I tried to lay them out in a constructive way and hope youll see my point. Hope to hear from you mr CCP Rise.

Best wishes
Saint
Jimmy P De'Souza
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#247 - 2013-08-11 01:47:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Jimmy P De'Souza
Taking the bonus down to 7.5 DOES NOT bring sentries in line with other weapon systems.

Other weapon systems can be fired effectively while the user moves.
Other weapon systems have modules which + up the falloff and not just the optimal.
Other weapon systems can be scripted.
Other weapon systems can be overheated.
Other weapon systems don't fall off of your ship if you need to warp out in a hurry.
Other weapon systems can choose their damage types without giving up range (not all).
Other weapon systems can be remotely boosted.
Other weapon systems can't be shot off of your ship.
Other weapon systems can't be bombed off of your ship.
Other weapon systems can be implant boosted.
Other weapon systems get faction modules.
Other weapon systems get faction upgrades.
Other weapon systems get faction ammo.
Other weapon systems get powerful t2 specialised ammo.
Other weapon systems damage mods are more effective.
Other weapon systems dont have the huge time delays that drones have.
Other weapon systems can be used beyond 60km without gimping out your dronebay.
Other weapon systems can easily replace loss from cargo.
Other weapon systems have immediate damage output ('cept missiles).
Other weapon systems dont need to lose ~ half of thier damage output in order to actually stay out doing damage.
Other weapon systems ...


That 10% nearly brings domis in line with other sniping fits (not entirely however). If your trying to equalise out the weapons then we need the weapons actually ******* equalised...
Xequecal
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#248 - 2013-08-11 02:35:59 UTC
Honestly, rather than nerf the Dominix or drone assist, I'd rather they add something to shake up large-scale fight strategy. RIght now it's all about optimizing the perfect alpha fleet and nothing else matters. That's why sentry domi is so potent, one person can simultaneously fire everyone's weapons at a target to guarantee an instant kill. Not only is this super one-dimensional, but it's boring as **** for everyone that's not having drones assisted to them.

Put in a module that does the following: If you receive over 90% of your ship's total HP in damage within 3 seconds, it automatically activates prevents all damage you would take for the next 8 seconds. After those 8 seconds there's a 5-minute cooldown where it can't activate, and you can't be remote repaired or boosted. Stealth bombers would still be viable, as almost noone gets one-shot by a single bomb.

One-dimenstional sentry drone alpha fleets become bad, just like all other alpha fleets. Shake up the strategy a little bit.
Irya Boone
The Scope
#249 - 2013-08-11 03:54:53 UTC
yep and don't forget drones can't be overloaded ...
guns yes
missiles yes (can't disrupt them ...)

so yes ccp go and you should nerf the Bandwith too , and drone bay too Why gallente drone boat should carry more drones than other sips ?? oO non sense

and i think domi can do well with 2 warrior II


my 2 isk

CCP it's time to remove Off Grid Boost and Put Them on Killmail too, add Logi on killmails .... Open that damn door !!

you shall all bow and pray BoB

Nolak Ataru
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#250 - 2013-08-11 07:54:59 UTC
yet another "let's make EVE Online into PVP Online" thread...
Joan Greywind
The Lazy Crabs
#251 - 2013-08-11 10:46:20 UTC
It's not that a big of a nerf anyways, adds up to 12.5% on level 5. That is a decrease of 12.5% to your total tracking, which isn't game changing, so I don't know why the excessive whining. It is more of a tweak than a change, admittedly a deserved one.
David Xavier
The Capsuleers of Unconscious Thought
#252 - 2013-08-11 10:51:15 UTC
Morrigan LeSante wrote:
The domi was massively over-buffed and we all know it. It's more a shame this wasn't picked up in test.


Look another frigates above all crusader being butthurt because there is a single battleship they can't solo.

I don't suffer from insanity.. I enjoy it !

Doed
Tyrfing Industries
#253 - 2013-08-11 10:54:53 UTC
Joan Greywind wrote:
It's not that a big of a nerf anyways, adds up to 12.5% on level 5. That is a decrease of 12.5% to your total tracking, which isn't game changing, so I don't know why the excessive whining. It is more of a tweak than a change, admittedly a deserved one.


Its more like an 8.33% overall nerf
Kane Fenris
NWP
#254 - 2013-08-11 11:10:41 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
Quote:
(Remember how in the T1 BS changes thread people said that no-one would ever fly a Dominix over a Geddon?)


Glad someone else remembers this =)


do you remember how people said nobody will fly a Tempest?
and nobody does fly a tempest!
David Xavier
The Capsuleers of Unconscious Thought
#255 - 2013-08-11 11:37:25 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
Quote:
I don't think this is a needed change. It's not soul crushing, and I'm not going to rage about it, but clearly you are targeting how powerful sentry drones are with their massive tracking and range.


You're right that there's some distinct disadvantages to using drones (and sentries especially), but think about all the ways the ship is already accounting for that. The biggest one is that it gets more bonuses to its primary weapons than a missile or turret based ship would. This one bonus is giving +50% optimal AND +50% tracking; imagine a Megathron or Maelstrom with that kind of bonus. Drone disadvantages are also balanced by things like having a free top rack that you can use to get even more damage or pick up tons of utility or the ability to switch weapon sizes and damage types freely.



You conveniently forget that drones need damage mods in the lows, tracking and range mods in the mid slots just like turrets, in addition to these high slot modules for control range are need as well! This does not leave any space neither for appropriate mod slots for the "free" weapons nor slots for the weapons themselves, plus said weapons don't receive bonuses from the hull either.

So you can fit a greatly diminished rack of "free" weapons with ****** damage, tracking and range.

Whereas a 1000+DPS turret oriented ship can still launch a flight of lights to swat/harass frigates or EWAR drones for some serious utility, also don't have to worry about their weapon systems being destroyed before the ship itself.


I don't suffer from insanity.. I enjoy it !

Morrigan LeSante
Perkone
Caldari State
#256 - 2013-08-11 13:07:27 UTC
David Xavier wrote:
Morrigan LeSante wrote:
The domi was massively over-buffed and we all know it. It's more a shame this wasn't picked up in test.


Look another frigates above all crusader being butthurt because there is a single battleship they can't solo.


Nothing to do with that, it was FAR too powerful. Utterly ridiculous. That DPS at those ranges was nonsense.
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#257 - 2013-08-11 13:20:51 UTC
Morrigan LeSante wrote:
David Xavier wrote:
Morrigan LeSante wrote:
The domi was massively over-buffed and we all know it. It's more a shame this wasn't picked up in test.


Look another frigates above all crusader being butthurt because there is a single battleship they can't solo.


Nothing to do with that, it was FAR too powerful. Utterly ridiculous. That DPS at those ranges was nonsense.

And they will lose about 5~10km so rather than bouncers being able to deal 630 DPS out to 136km they will only hit out to 125km

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.

Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#258 - 2013-08-11 13:39:08 UTC
David Xavier wrote:
...also don't have to worry about their weapon systems being destroyed before the ship itself.

Shouldn't take long if its a 1k+ dps fit .. tank is almost nonexistent when going gank like that. The 10% bonus essentially allowed long range weapons (sentries) to perform equally well at all ranges which is what got HML's nerfed if you recall. Even the toned down 7.5% is borderline as it does not discriminate between combat and sentry drones .. first thing that was done when they started on T2 hulls was to introduce that distinction so it is a big deal.

You are right otherwise, drone platforms do have some slot requirements but it doesn't even come close to the ~10 slots of gun/missile users (primary weapon system + dmg mods) and since drone boats only have one slot deficit they are still way ahead when it comes to options.

In short: Tracking is one of the best bonuses that can applied to a ship these days and can be balanced by having said ship stay in the low end of paper dps (ex. Apocalypse), but once you add damage (and in the case of the Dominix range as well) it immediately enters the "risk of OPness" column.
Even shorter: Revision is well deserved and overdue.
Oliver Stoned
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#259 - 2013-08-11 15:20:24 UTC
Veshta Yoshida wrote:
David Xavier wrote:
...also don't have to worry about their weapon systems being destroyed before the ship itself.

Shouldn't take long if its a 1k+ dps fit .. tank is almost nonexistent when going gank like that. The 10% bonus essentially allowed long range weapons (sentries) to perform equally well at all ranges which is what got HML's nerfed if you recall. Even the toned down 7.5% is borderline as it does not discriminate between combat and sentry drones .. first thing that was done when they started on T2 hulls was to introduce that distinction so it is a big deal.

You are right otherwise, drone platforms do have some slot requirements but it doesn't even come close to the ~10 slots of gun/missile users (primary weapon system + dmg mods) and since drone boats only have one slot deficit they are still way ahead when it comes to options.

In short: Tracking is one of the best bonuses that can applied to a ship these days and can be balanced by having said ship stay in the low end of paper dps (ex. Apocalypse), but once you add damage (and in the case of the Dominix range as well) it immediately enters the "risk of OPness" column.
Even shorter: Revision is well deserved and overdue.

I disagree.

My question would be "How many of the (NERF the Dominix) actually fly it on a regular basis?"
Just because it did well in the Alliance Tourney and now it's overpowered?
How many ships that did well in the Tournaments got nerfed next available patch?

Finally the Dominix starts performing like it should and it gets the Nerf whack.
It's a drone boat or a mini drone carrier. That is it's main weapon.

First they started with the EOS loosing bandwidth and now tracking on Dominix.
What's next?
kogelbiefstuk
Contraband lnc
Lack of F3CK3N Talent
#260 - 2013-08-11 15:50:49 UTC
Anharat wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:
Drone assist is a much larger issue and we aren't looking to make any changes to it for 1.1. .


This is disappointing. Time to up my media library so i can watch movies while my sentry boat shoots what the FC points at for the next year.



And lazy people like that are exactly the reason. The point is to get more people to play the game themselves, not be lazy f1 pushers.