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[Odyssey 1.1] Dominix bonus change

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Flex Carter
Caldari Independant Mining Association
#201 - 2013-08-09 12:56:17 UTC
I once again foresee another wet-dream forever "metaphorically altered" by those that be CCP.
Marc Callan
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#202 - 2013-08-09 13:01:46 UTC
Gief ISK wrote:
Marc Callan wrote:
Haven't had a chance to fly the Odyssey 1.0 Dominix yet, so I can't really offer an opinion on that front.

However, on the issue of the bonus: apparently what we refer to as "bonus" comes from the Latin bonum, a good thing ("bonus" in Latin meant a good man), the plural of which was bona. English being the way it is, things kind of evolved, to the point where "bonuses" became an acceptable plural for "bonus".

More importantly, the plural of "Dominix" is "potatoes".


Sorry, but trying to be pretentious while aparently lacking ANY form of formal education is laughable...

"bonus" is the masculine nominative, "bona" is feminine nominative and "bonum" is neuter nominative.
"boni" is masculine plural.

Source: Actual major in latin in school, you should really try out school...


I'll admit that neither of the languages I speak or read is Latin, nor did I take classes in Latin during twenty years of schooling. I'll defer to your judgment in that regard, as superior to the quick and dirty research I did into the etymology of the word "bonus".

In my defense, I wasn't trying to be pretentious; I was trying to be humorous. I'll grant that I may have failed in that regard as well.

Wonder why it took until now to notice that it was possible to use massed sentry drones in a game-breaking manner? I spotted a reference in Ripard Teg's blog dating back to January 2011 (reference).

And I'm curious as to what the adjustments to the Dominix portend for the Gurista lineup.

"We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be." - Kurt Vonnegurt
XXSketchxx
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
#203 - 2013-08-09 13:12:12 UTC
Irya Boone wrote:
I don't really understand the need of nerfing of Gallente ships ,
when you "balanced the BS" you put some EWar bonus on other BS of the other races but ... Gallente NO.

We Have to get close to do some good damage but our PvP tank is generally passive armor tanking ...so making your ship an anvil...

railguns ... don't even talk about it ....( except some mega fit )

And we had domi with sentries ... and now because of your ****** tournament you nerf it too.. what's wrong with you people

For years we are asking for some changes and you don't give a **** .. but you spend Dev time on things NO ONE ASK YOU...
i don't get

Really ..THX ccp

and for god sake be honest and tell people to stop skilling drones or Gallente ships because you don't like them

ps: don't forget to make the Domi uglier , and more uglier too!!!


lol
Brakko Mussua
Doomheim
#204 - 2013-08-09 13:17:45 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
Quote:
I don't think this is a needed change. It's not soul crushing, and I'm not going to rage about it, but clearly you are targeting how powerful sentry drones are with their massive tracking and range.


You're right that there's some distinct disadvantages to using drones (and sentries especially), but think about all the ways the ship is already accounting for that. The biggest one is that it gets more bonuses to its primary weapons than a missile or turret based ship would. This one bonus is giving +50% optimal AND +50% tracking; imagine a Megathron or Maelstrom with that kind of bonus. Drone disadvantages are also balanced by things like having a free top rack that you can use to get even more damage or pick up tons of utility or the ability to switch weapon sizes and damage types freely.



Maybe and only maybe ebcasue drones IS THE ONLY FKN WEAPON SYSTEM THAT CAN BE DESTROYED!? Are you evenr eal? what ar eyou doing balancign anything?
Bezdar22
Destructive Influence
Northern Coalition.
#205 - 2013-08-09 14:25:56 UTC
this seems a JOKE.
nerfing domi what abt megathron???
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#206 - 2013-08-09 14:40:42 UTC
Bezdar22 wrote:
this seems a JOKE.
nerfing domi what abt megathron???



Why would Mega need nerfing? Because we brought to many for you?
Endeavour Starfleet
#207 - 2013-08-09 14:44:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Endeavour Starfleet
CCP Rise wrote:
Quote:
I don't think this is a needed change. It's not soul crushing, and I'm not going to rage about it, but clearly you are targeting how powerful sentry drones are with their massive tracking and range.


You're right that there's some distinct disadvantages to using drones (and sentries especially), but think about all the ways the ship is already accounting for that. The biggest one is that it gets more bonuses to its primary weapons than a missile or turret based ship would. This one bonus is giving +50% optimal AND +50% tracking; imagine a Megathron or Maelstrom with that kind of bonus. Drone disadvantages are also balanced by things like having a free top rack that you can use to get even more damage or pick up tons of utility or the ability to switch weapon sizes and damage types freely.



You are comparing a ship that has to stand still to do its DPS and hope to recover the drones with Turret based ships?! Ships that NEVER have to worry about their DPS perma removed from them with a well planned AOE attack?

Why should I as a player accept this from you CCP RIse? Hell if you got a problem with NPC posting alts just say so and I will reveal my main characters. Why? Because it is worth it if it stops this horrifying start to a likely long chain of nerfs.

Again why is development time being spent on this unwanted and unwarranted nerf when there are far better changes that could be done in time for 1.1?

Will you please remove this change from plans for 1.1?
Boss McNab
Tactical Chaos Corp
#208 - 2013-08-09 14:45:53 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
Quote:
I don't think this is a needed change. It's not soul crushing, and I'm not going to rage about it, but clearly you are targeting how powerful sentry drones are with their massive tracking and range.


You're right that there's some distinct disadvantages to using drones (and sentries especially), but think about all the ways the ship is already accounting for that. The biggest one is that it gets more bonuses to its primary weapons than a missile or turret based ship would. This one bonus is giving +50% optimal AND +50% tracking; imagine a Megathron or Maelstrom with that kind of bonus. Drone disadvantages are also balanced by things like having a free top rack that you can use to get even more damage or pick up tons of utility or the ability to switch weapon sizes and damage types freely.




Ever think that maybe this is becuase you can only fly 5 drones whill all other weapons types can have 6,7 even 8 turrets or launchers..... thats why drones should have a bit more bonus
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#209 - 2013-08-09 14:50:34 UTC
Boss McNab wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:
Quote:
I don't think this is a needed change. It's not soul crushing, and I'm not going to rage about it, but clearly you are targeting how powerful sentry drones are with their massive tracking and range.


You're right that there's some distinct disadvantages to using drones (and sentries especially), but think about all the ways the ship is already accounting for that. The biggest one is that it gets more bonuses to its primary weapons than a missile or turret based ship would. This one bonus is giving +50% optimal AND +50% tracking; imagine a Megathron or Maelstrom with that kind of bonus. Drone disadvantages are also balanced by things like having a free top rack that you can use to get even more damage or pick up tons of utility or the ability to switch weapon sizes and damage types freely.




Ever think that maybe this is becuase you can only fly 5 drones whill all other weapons types can have 6,7 even 8 turrets or launchers..... thats why drones should have a bit more bonus



Not to mention that Omnis were around a LONG time before drone damage amps, and to my knowledge omnis weren't putzed with.

Even then for all of the drawbacks to dedicated drone hulls they deserve to be nasty.
Endeavour Starfleet
#210 - 2013-08-09 14:51:28 UTC
DP Lip wrote:
right.... sentry's drones dominated the tournament and this nerf is good Pirate


Tournaments have nothing to do with how things happen day to day on TQ. That is why using ANY data from those crap tourneys to balance anything in EVE is a bad idea from the very start.
Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
#211 - 2013-08-09 15:23:09 UTC
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:
...Hell if you got a problem with NPC posting alts just say so and I will reveal my main characters.


Why don't you use your Main(s)? Posting on the Forum is not a dirty sinful act you know Smile it shows awillingness to engage with the community to improve it and better the game we all love. I just don't get why people hide behind alts on the Forums.

My statement for August which shall be known as "Anti-Alt Month": Come out, come out, whoever you are! Roll

[b]Fast Character Switching "XP Stylee" Undocking - More Routes Out of Station[/b] Here's my tear jar > |_| < Fill 'er up!
MacKael
Perkone
Caldari State
#212 - 2013-08-09 15:49:30 UTC
Wow this guy is going to destroy every ship in eve. Does he even play anymore.
Gief ISK
Doomheim
#213 - 2013-08-09 15:54:12 UTC
Marc Callan wrote:
Gief ISK wrote:
Marc Callan wrote:
Haven't had a chance to fly the Odyssey 1.0 Dominix yet, so I can't really offer an opinion on that front.

However, on the issue of the bonus: apparently what we refer to as "bonus" comes from the Latin bonum, a good thing ("bonus" in Latin meant a good man), the plural of which was bona. English being the way it is, things kind of evolved, to the point where "bonuses" became an acceptable plural for "bonus".

More importantly, the plural of "Dominix" is "potatoes".


Sorry, but trying to be pretentious while aparently lacking ANY form of formal education is laughable...

"bonus" is the masculine nominative, "bona" is feminine nominative and "bonum" is neuter nominative.
"boni" is masculine plural.

Source: Actual major in latin in school, you should really try out school...


I'll admit that neither of the languages I speak or read is Latin, nor did I take classes in Latin during twenty years of schooling. I'll defer to your judgment in that regard, as superior to the quick and dirty research I did into the etymology of the word "bonus".

In my defense, I wasn't trying to be pretentious; I was trying to be humorous. I'll grant that I may have failed in that regard as well.

Wonder why it took until now to notice that it was possible to use massed sentry drones in a game-breaking manner? I spotted a reference in Ripard Teg's blog dating back to January 2011 (reference).

And I'm curious as to what the adjustments to the Dominix portend for the Gurista lineup.


Soz, you kinda got hit with the full on rage of having to learn useless latin for 9 years and then seeing an opportunity to FINALLY appropriately use this knowledge to point to the fact that someone could be wrong on the internets.
At least i can tell people now latin learning was worth it.
Caius Sivaris
Dark Nexxus
#214 - 2013-08-09 15:54:34 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
We are going to put a small change in for 1.1:

Dominix's drone tracking and optimal range bonus lowered from 10% per level to 7.5% per level.

This brings the bonus in line with all other damage application bonuses we give, such as turret tracking bonuses or missile explosion velocity/radius bonuses. The Dominix hasn't been oppressively powerful but it is extremely strong and there is no need for the over-allocation with regards to this bonus.

In case some of you think this is a reaction to the way the Domi performed in the alliance tournament, I can tell you that we will never make balance decisions based on that environment. The tournament certainly highlighted the strengths of sentry drones and damps, which are both powerful on TQ as well, but it removed many of their drawbacks and so it is not an effective way to assess balance or power in normal EVE.


What about addressing the other glaring issues with sentry drones, their perfect scan res. The issue with sentry drones instagibbing stuff before it even got a chance to move because they are assigned to an extremely high scanres ship, would be greatly diminished if sentry drones had a scan resolution stat on par with a BS. Same with switching target etc...

lack of scanres is not really an issue with other drones because they got to travel on target, but ideally they should get the same treatment.
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#215 - 2013-08-09 16:03:52 UTC
Caius Sivaris wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:
We are going to put a small change in for 1.1:

Dominix's drone tracking and optimal range bonus lowered from 10% per level to 7.5% per level.

This brings the bonus in line with all other damage application bonuses we give, such as turret tracking bonuses or missile explosion velocity/radius bonuses. The Dominix hasn't been oppressively powerful but it is extremely strong and there is no need for the over-allocation with regards to this bonus.

In case some of you think this is a reaction to the way the Domi performed in the alliance tournament, I can tell you that we will never make balance decisions based on that environment. The tournament certainly highlighted the strengths of sentry drones and damps, which are both powerful on TQ as well, but it removed many of their drawbacks and so it is not an effective way to assess balance or power in normal EVE.


What about addressing the other glaring issues with sentry drones, their perfect scan res. The issue with sentry drones instagibbing stuff before it even got a chance to move because they are assigned to an extremely high scanres ship, would be greatly diminished if sentry drones had a scan resolution stat on par with a BS. Same with switching target etc...

lack of scanres is not really an issue with other drones because they got to travel on target, but ideally they should get the same treatment.



So what turrets have scan res again?

Seriously.
ZoraTestra
Doomheim
#216 - 2013-08-09 16:17:23 UTC
What's not good is for players-turned-CCP to micromanage stats, especially as the result of recent experience.

Let it sit.

Eve is, all around, becoming way too micromanaged by CCP. Yes, says CCP, it's supposed to be a sandbox, but we'd really prefer that you play in it our way.

At some point we'll be left with a knuckledragging arcade game of nothing but turret tank and gank.
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#217 - 2013-08-09 16:21:24 UTC
Gorski Car wrote:
Drone assign mechanics are far more broken tbh.



The 10% bonus is certainly too strong and needs changes but I can agree with you on this one too.

So CCP Rise when are you implementing weapons assist to FC so that when he target paints something our weapons shoot?

This would not be game breaking at all at least not more than drone assist and AFK youp__n.

removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#218 - 2013-08-09 16:27:29 UTC
MacKael wrote:
Wow this guy is going to destroy every ship in eve. Does he even play anymore.



Despite HAC changes not being pushed far enough, CS ships actually looking more like T2 DPS BC's than CSs, this is a well needed change on Dominix.

Can you perfectly track fast frigates with huge traversal: with your arties -with your rails - with your beams?

No you can't, with Domi you can and this is wrong. It will still be very strong but doesn't need to be OP as it is.

removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#219 - 2013-08-09 16:30:24 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
The biggest one is that it gets more bonuses to its primary weapons than a missile or turret based ship would.

This is because drones ships are still being balanced around the mystical "15" drone scenario, and why drone interfacing grants a huge bonus also.
CCP Rise wrote:

This one bonus is giving +50% optimal AND +50% tracking; imagine a Megathron or Maelstrom with that kind of bonus.

While I do not disagree with toning down the tracking bonus, this is a horrid comparison. When you can't move your Megathron or Maelstrom when firing and need a carrier to change its position on grid, then they will be comparable.
CCP Rise wrote:

Drone disadvantages are also balanced by things like having a free top rack that you can use to get even more damage or pick up tons of utility or the ability to switch weapon sizes and damage types freely.

Lets not forget that for some unknown reason drone ships have -1 slot, have tighter fitting thresholds because "drones"

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#220 - 2013-08-09 16:37:55 UTC
Maximus Aerelius wrote:
Why don't you use your Main(s)?


This is stupid a question. IN what CCP supposed Dev are concerned they are happy about alts, that's why their company business is hugely based on alts not be able to train in the same account or yes but more money to pay.

So stop this hypocrisy and actually discuss arguments instead of the validity on an NPC corp character. This hypocrisy is even more insulting coming from CCP personnel and SDs than random pawn posters.

removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne