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The best thing for all ore mining ...
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Captain Megadeath
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#21 - 2011-11-11 13:12:38 UTC
Fille Balle wrote:

In fact, more that half of the minerals that come from reprocessing stem from drone compounds. Last time I checked there weren't that many drone missions.



You do know there is an entire drone REGION in 0.0, don't you.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#22 - 2011-11-11 13:15:00 UTC
Ptraci wrote:
2) industrialists who haven't realized yet it's cheaper +faster to ...


With a Covetor using T1 strip miners and no fleet boosts, I am making 27M per hour. That isn't counting the NPCs. salvaging, sites, PI and such that I am doing.

The ore goes into corp that then manufactures, turning them a profit and all of us more prosperity.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Captain Megadeath
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#23 - 2011-11-11 13:16:45 UTC
Karn Dulake wrote:
You put a lot of work into this and have obviously been thinking about this a bit

Expect trolls and self important players who will try to derail your thoughts until you give up


(you have made a few assumptions but who doesn't)


As you can see, his whole arguement is based upon assumptions and fall apart under scrutiny.


FACT, The majority of the minerals on the market are reprocessed drone loot.

FACT, These are gained by bots in the drone regions.

Therefore the removal of drone loot + better bot removal = miners heaven.
Captain Megadeath
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#24 - 2011-11-11 13:18:18 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Ptraci wrote:
2) industrialists who haven't realized yet it's cheaper +faster to ...


With a Covetor using T1 strip miners and no fleet boosts, I am making 27M per hour. That isn't counting the NPCs. salvaging, sites, PI and such that I am doing.

The ore goes into corp that then manufactures, turning them a profit and all of us more prosperity.



27mill an hour with a single unbonused Covetor. Shocked

What system? What ore?

I call CowPoop.... Lol
Jenshae Chiroptera
#25 - 2011-11-11 13:20:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenshae Chiroptera
Captain Megadeath wrote:
... I call CowPoop.... Lol


Want to buy some A grade A ore? I have some B and C but the A is coming out of my ears P

Can 1718 x 5000 per unit cost x 3 cans per hour = 25 770 000 that is rough and I don't have my MLU because I replaced my ship and forgot I need a CPU, got a cargo expander. Oops

Oh and I am mining right now. That is the great thing. I can mine, work or be on the forums all at the same time. Two screens for the win! Lol

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#26 - 2011-11-11 13:57:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenshae Chiroptera
Now, imagine, enough support to run Rorq as FC, Orca as Wing, Hulk as Squad + MLU II + my own Hulk + T2 Strip miners + T2 drones + infinite systems as we could keep closing them.

Ptraci wrote:
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:


  • Yield drops
  • Prices remain the same


    • Thank you for pointing out your lack of understanding of economics before I had to read the rest of your post. ...


    Now back to you. It all depends on time and media. If everyone is told the change is happening, they will panic, speculate, start selling, start buying, et cetera.
    However, if the change slips in quietly, the market has ore on it, the miners start realising something has change, the price remains the same until the whole market feels the effect or knows about it.

    Buzzmong wrote:
    The entire OP's post could be fixed via one method:

    Remove the bots.


    The players would do this when they need easy targets to eliminate from the ore competition.

    CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

    Not even once

    EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
    Buzzmong
    Aliastra
    Gallente Federation
    #27 - 2011-11-11 14:01:07 UTC
    The entire OP's post could be fixed via one method:

    Remove the bots.
    Jenshae Chiroptera
    #28 - 2011-11-11 14:07:51 UTC
    Buzzmong wrote:
    ... Remove the bots.


    Bots can be detected server side by their patterns. Humans are much too random to follow that level of precision.

    CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

    Not even once

    EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
    Darrow Hill
    Vodka and Vice
    #29 - 2011-11-11 14:19:11 UTC
    Cryten Jones wrote:
    Trouble is that there is way too much coming from loot recycling etc to make a change


    Change reprocessing to require Scrapmetal Processing.

    Those that already have it (say 0.0 manufacturers) will not be impacted, but the casual recyclers (mission runners, etc.) will either have to commit significant training time to get it, sell loot as is on the market, or just ignore the crap loot drops.

    I'd rather see that done as a first step before drone goo is removed.
    IceCreamMonster
    Imperial Academy
    Amarr Empire
    #30 - 2011-11-11 14:33:12 UTC  |  Edited by: IceCreamMonster
    Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
    Buzzmong wrote:
    ... Remove the bots.


    Bots can be detected server side by their patterns. Humans are much too random to follow that level of precision.


    No that easy. Competent bots add a random time delay between actions and also output to local from a list of prepared text.
    This was back in 2005, they have certainly evolved more since then.

    [Edit] While on the subject, in my opinion, a possible way to stop bot is to make fundamental change to mining interface so that it requires human interpretation. For a rough example:

    Make mining interface into a "mini game" ... there is an GUI where lights appear randomly on a grid of space where user must click to keep the laser running. You can add some back story or reason such as turning off different valves to keep the overheating balanced throughout the system etc...

    Bots rely on a fixed grid so they can program mouse action, the randomness of the new interface and required human involvement would make it hard.

    just my 2 cents
    Jenn Makanen
    Doomheim
    #31 - 2011-11-11 14:47:28 UTC
    Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
    Buzzmong wrote:
    ... Remove the bots.


    Bots can be detected server side by their patterns. Humans are much too random to follow that level of precision.



    There's this little thing called an RNG. All computers have them. While they're not quite random, they're close enough (unless you start getting fancy like power supply manipulation. Security researchers are nuts.) A decent bot program adds random factors.

    Bot detection, without something monitoring the client, isn't easy.
    Scrapyard Bob
    EVE University
    Ivy League
    #32 - 2011-11-11 15:10:50 UTC
    Darrow Hill wrote:
    Cryten Jones wrote:
    Trouble is that there is way too much coming from loot recycling etc to make a change


    Change reprocessing to require Scrapmetal Processing.

    Those that already have it (say 0.0 manufacturers) will not be impacted, but the casual recyclers (mission runners, etc.) will either have to commit significant training time to get it, sell loot as is on the market, or just ignore the crap loot drops.

    I'd rather see that done as a first step before drone goo is removed.


    Or make it have a much bigger impact on how much you get back. Maybe you only get back 80% without it trained and for each level in the skill, you get an additional 3% back, up to a maximum of 95% (at a 50% refine station).

    Right now, without it trained at all, you can get back 99.5% at a 50% station.
    Cpt Greagor
    Liquid Relief
    #33 - 2011-11-11 15:15:54 UTC
    Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:

    Short version:
    Supply down -> demand up -> prices up -> combat up -> prices up -> players unite for combat and supply ->friendship -> more evenly spread of players across systems.


    Lol friendship in EVE.

     - Today's Goals -  Log Into Forums - [X] Make More Useless Posts - [X] Log Into EVE - [  ]
    Jenshae Chiroptera
    #34 - 2011-11-11 15:46:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenshae Chiroptera
    Cpt Greagor wrote:
    ... Lol friendship in EVE.


    LOLOLLLLOLLLOLL

    RollRollRoll

    Yes, with the right corp / alliance people meet in RL and do become friends.

    Jenn Makanen wrote:
    Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
    Buzzmong wrote:
    ... Remove the bots.


    Bots can be detected server side by their patterns. Humans are much too random to follow that level of precision.



    There's this little thing called an RNG. All computers have them. While they're not quite random, they're close enough (unless you start getting fancy like power supply manipulation. Security researchers are nuts.) A decent bot program adds random factors.

    Bot detection, without something monitoring the client, isn't easy.


    I have used static sensors to generate encryption.

    IceCreamMonster wrote:
    Make mining interface into a "mini game" ...


    I would stop mining if they implemented that. I only mine when I am doing other things on the other screen.

    CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

    Not even once

    EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
    March rabbit
    Aliastra
    Gallente Federation
    #35 - 2011-11-11 15:51:19 UTC
    Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:


    1. Yield drops
    2. Prices remain the same
    3. Frustration - some miners do other things.
    4. Supply drops
    5. Demand remains the same
    6. Prices rise
      7. ...
    7. Conflict goes up, more ships are destroyed
    8. Demand goes up
    9. Prices rise again
    10. More corps are pushed into bigger alliances and there is more people doing PVP



    won't work.
    prices up -> less people want to risk by stuff and ships -> less pvp

    The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
    Jenshae Chiroptera
    #36 - 2011-11-11 15:54:42 UTC
    March rabbit wrote:

    won't work.
    prices up -> less people want to risk by stuff and ships -> less pvp


    Less PVP, less mining for you because you aren't killing the other miners off. Works in a circle.

    CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

    Not even once

    EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
    March rabbit
    Aliastra
    Gallente Federation
    #37 - 2011-11-11 16:13:18 UTC
    Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
    March rabbit wrote:

    won't work.
    prices up -> less people want to risk by stuff and ships -> less pvp


    Less PVP, less mining for you because you aren't killing the other miners off. Works in a circle.

    only if miner will do PVP at all...... Roll

    for me it sound as LOL as if elite-PVPer will make T2 ships for his needs Shocked

    The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
    IceCreamMonster
    Imperial Academy
    Amarr Empire
    #38 - 2011-11-11 16:15:07 UTC  |  Edited by: IceCreamMonster
    "I would stop mining if they implemented that. I only mine when I am doing other things on the other screen."

    Apparently you missed my point.. and quoting me out of context.
    I'm not suggesting a full interaction "mini game" but that it requires a direct human intervention every 6 minutes or similar time cycle to empty a hulk's cargo...
    .... the main point is to not have a fixed pixel location on the screen to program the bot macro to. Whatever you want to call it whether it be a "mini game " or redesigned GUI is not important.
    Tippia
    Sunshine and Lollipops
    #39 - 2011-11-11 16:20:20 UTC
    Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
    Less PVP, less mining for you because you aren't killing the other miners off. Works in a circle.
    No. Less PvP, same mining for you, prices go down, more PvP. That is the circle.
    Jenshae Chiroptera
    #40 - 2011-11-11 17:55:07 UTC
    Tippia wrote:
    Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
    Less PVP, less mining for you because you aren't killing the other miners off. Works in a circle.
    No. Less PvP, same mining for you, prices go down, more PvP. That is the circle.


    Currently

    That is the problem, it promotes kills just for "lulz" because ships are so cheap. We should be competing for the resources, not just picking any high sec system and having no worries.

    CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

    Not even once

    EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.