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Problem with level 4 mission Raven UPDATED
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Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#61 - 2013-08-08 08:02:25 UTC
Tobias Hareka wrote:
Cipher Jones wrote:
Only 4 launchers and most of the damage is from drones.


Maybe if you think it that way. Mach is by far the most expensive ship to use in level 4s. Faction ammo isn't cheap and Mach goes through piles of faction ammo so quickly it's not even funny.


Unless people think that its a contest to spend the most money, we're in agreement.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it
Tobias Hareka
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#62 - 2013-08-08 08:06:42 UTC
Cipher Jones wrote:
Tobias Hareka wrote:
Cipher Jones wrote:
Only 4 launchers and most of the damage is from drones.


Maybe if you think it that way. Mach is by far the most expensive ship to use in level 4s. Faction ammo isn't cheap and Mach goes through piles of faction ammo so quickly it's not even funny.


Unless people think that its a contest to spend the most money, we're in agreement.


Higher expenses = lower profit
Rivari Kyoshun
Perkone
Caldari State
#63 - 2013-08-08 14:05:27 UTC
Hey fellow Capsuleer!
I started playing Eve about 10 months ago, and I´ve started running lvl4s for just the same reason. I needed to realize what others said before; shield defense skills, their support and cap management ones are the first to train for, along with missile skills and drone operators. I flew a Raven for 2 weeks till I understood that for a ship which defends itself thru firepower, one needs to be patient. Make sure to fit the proper resistance with eve-survival, don´t hesitate to THINK about how you will engage the enemy - if there is a frig that scrams, take it out - practically shove a flight of hobgoblin t2 drones at its face. As I see, your key aspect is the freedom to move. You may encounter NPCs that prevent you from being free to fly, or leave to a station - those should be your primary targets, if the survival log does not tell you otherwise.
To do this, read through the topic - it has a LOT of tips, fits and advice to help you improve. Oh, and even if t2 hobs are costly, as a secondary weapon system they can help you maintain a clear overview with proper skills
Govind
Parity Labs
#64 - 2013-08-08 17:33:45 UTC
This is a good way to help train your skills in a balanced way and to know if you are lacking in a particular area:

http://www.eve-skilltracker.com/info

Create an account and associate your desired character with it. Then open up the badge for the Caldari Raven and see where you fall skill-wise. Fill out all the Basic skills before moving to Medium etc. You'll be able to see at a glance where you are lacking.

I've been using this site as a guide for leveling an alt and the process seems a lot less painful than the trial and error my main went through.
Paul Otichoda
Perkone
Caldari State
#65 - 2013-08-08 18:36:14 UTC
Govind wrote:
This is a good way to help train your skills in a balanced way and to know if you are lacking in a particular area:

http://www.eve-skilltracker.com/info

Create an account and associate your desired character with it. Then open up the badge for the Caldari Raven and see where you fall skill-wise. Fill out all the Basic skills before moving to Medium etc. You'll be able to see at a glance where you are lacking.

I've been using this site as a guide for leveling an alt and the process seems a lot less painful than the trial and error my main went through.


this is actually a pretty good site

Even without signing up I've identified some skills that I can train up for a frigate fit I've have trouble fitting.
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#66 - 2013-08-08 18:39:56 UTC
Tobias Hareka wrote:
Cipher Jones wrote:
Tobias Hareka wrote:
Cipher Jones wrote:
Only 4 launchers and most of the damage is from drones.


Maybe if you think it that way. Mach is by far the most expensive ship to use in level 4s. Faction ammo isn't cheap and Mach goes through piles of faction ammo so quickly it's not even funny.


Unless people think that its a contest to spend the most money, we're in agreement.


Higher expenses = lower profit


ROFL. Tell that to Intel when they spend 1000x what AMD spends on RnD but still makes wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyy more profit.

Income over time minus expenses = profit over time.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it
Donbe Scurred
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#67 - 2013-08-08 18:48:21 UTC
Why the rich get richer and the poor get poorer.

Poor people thinking: Higher expenses = lower profit
Rich people thinking: Income over time minus expenses = profit over time
Tobias Hareka
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#68 - 2013-08-08 18:53:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Tobias Hareka
Cipher Jones wrote:
Tobias Hareka wrote:
Cipher Jones wrote:
Tobias Hareka wrote:
Cipher Jones wrote:
Only 4 launchers and most of the damage is from drones.


Maybe if you think it that way. Mach is by far the most expensive ship to use in level 4s. Faction ammo isn't cheap and Mach goes through piles of faction ammo so quickly it's not even funny.


Unless people think that its a contest to spend the most money, we're in agreement.


Higher expenses = lower profit


ROFL. Tell that to Intel when they spend 1000x what AMD spends on RnD but still makes wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyy more profit.

Income over time minus expenses = profit over time.


Only if you get faction ammo for free. Scam?

Compare Vargur to Mach. Do you really think Vargur uses more ammo / mission than Mach?
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#69 - 2013-08-08 22:10:21 UTC
Tobias Hareka wrote:


Only if you get faction ammo for free. Scam?

Compare Vargur to Mach. Do you really think Vargur uses more ammo / mission than Mach?


It causes me to accumulate money faster over time compared to most other ships. Maybe if your vargur is dropping 1400 DPS, but I doubt that. And compared to most Battleships, yes.

Quote:
It takes money to makes money.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it
Velarra
#70 - 2013-08-08 22:51:52 UTC
This thread reminds me of the following fit...

HIGH
06 x Cruise Missile Launcher I
01 x SMALL TRACTOR BEAM 1
01 x SALVAGER I

MEDIUM
04 x LARGE SHIELD EXTENDERS
01 x 'HYPHNOS' ECM
01 x MEDIUM SHIELD BOOSTER

LOW
01 x EMERGENCY DAMAGE CONTROL
01 x ARMOR KINETIC HARDENER I
01 x ARMOR THREMIC HARDENER I
02 x WARP CORE STABILIZER I

DRONES
02 x WARRIOR I DRONES
03 x HAMMERHEAD I DRONES

UPGRADES
01 x ROCKET FUEL CACHE PARTINTION I
01 x BAY LOADING ACCELERATOR I
Paul Otichoda
Perkone
Caldari State
#71 - 2013-08-19 08:12:22 UTC
Time for an update

I've trained up some more of my skills and changed around my fittings

I am now using a tech 2 heavy caps boaster with 800 caps instead of the shield extender.

However I'm still in a problem.

I can do missions against waves of small groups (EoM) since I can stay away from them and grind them down.

However so often I come up against enemies I either can't break their tank or have loads of frigates that swarm me and drain my shield faster than I can replace it so I get to armour and have to warp out with a 3m repair bill. Most of the time my drones (using 4 hobgoblins) can taken them out and often the frigates aggress them instead meaning they keep dying and I have to expend the rest of my stock.

So I still can't really do level 4s
Archibald Thistlewaite III
The Royal Society for the Prevention of Miners
#72 - 2013-08-19 08:41:10 UTC
Sounds like you should be doing level 3 missions in a drake. There is a good chance you would earn more isk quickly completing level 3 missions than slowly doing the level 4's.

Quote:
Most of the time my drones (using 4 hobgoblins)


That suggests you only have drones trained to level 4. If thats the case you will struggle to kill the frigates in level 4 missions.

Do you still use the 3 Cap. Control Circuit (CCC) rigs? If you do then you will struggle to kill anything smaller than a BS.

Are you using Eve-Survival to identify the triggers so you don't get overwhelmed by spawns?

I fit all my Pve battleships with a MJD (Micro Jump Drive) and use range as a tank, as well as to give me time to kill any annoying frigates.

User of 'Bumblefck's Luscious & Luminous Mustachio Wax'
Paul Otichoda
Perkone
Caldari State
#73 - 2013-08-19 08:45:41 UTC
Archibald Thistlewaite III wrote:
Sounds like you should be doing level 3 missions in a drake. There is a good chance you would earn more isk quickly completing level 3 missions than slowly doing the level 4's.

Quote:
Most of the time my drones (using 4 hobgoblins)


That suggests you only have drones trained to level 4. If thats the case you will struggle to kill the frigates in level 4 missions.

Do you still use the 3 Cap. Control Circuit (CCC) rigs? If you do then you will struggle to kill anything smaller than a BS.

Are you using Eve-Survival to identify the triggers so you don't get overwhelmed by spawns?

I fit all my Pve battleships with a MJD (Micro Jump Drive) and use range as a tank, as well as to give me time to kill any annoying frigates.


no I junked one of them for a warhead rigor seems to help a bit but not much

and yes I only have drones to 4 but they take 5 days to get to level 5 and I'm at the moment training up to be able to overheat in pvp.

And I can't use a MJD but since I can only target at about 80km its not that useful.
Archibald Thistlewaite III
The Royal Society for the Prevention of Miners
#74 - 2013-08-19 08:58:41 UTC
The MJD only takes a few minutes to train, you only need it at level 1 and is very useful in reducing the damage you take from some NPC's.

If the NPC's are 20km in front of you when you activate the MJD. They will be 80km behind you when you land. You won't lose lock on any ships still in range and the frigates will MWD towards you, making them a bigger target for your cruise missiles.

Against rats that have a long range swap the MJD out for either more tank or a target painter to help apply damage better.

User of 'Bumblefck's Luscious & Luminous Mustachio Wax'
Paul Otichoda
Perkone
Caldari State
#75 - 2013-08-19 09:01:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Paul Otichoda
Archibald Thistlewaite III wrote:


Against rats that have a long range swap the MJD out for either more tank or a target painter to help apply damage better.


are target painters worth it? I haven't trained for them

because on my raven I could only fit it my removing one of my shield boost ampliers
Archibald Thistlewaite III
The Royal Society for the Prevention of Miners
#76 - 2013-08-19 09:09:22 UTC
Paul Otichoda wrote:
Archibald Thistlewaite III wrote:


Against rats that have a long range swap the MJD out for either more tank or a target painter to help apply damage better.


are target painters worth it? I haven't trained for them

because on my raven I could only fit it my removing one of my shield boost ampliers


They increase the signature size of the target, so your cruise missiles will do more damage against smaller targets.

I don't use them myself, but thats because I use 3 rigor rigs on my Raven. If you are having trouble killing the smaller ships (Cruiser/Frigate) size, then a TP will help you kill them. If you are having trouble killing the BS size rats then a TP won't make much difference.

I personally wouldn't swap a Shield boost amp. for a target painter. A hardner yes, but it all depends on what your skills allow you to fit.

User of 'Bumblefck's Luscious & Luminous Mustachio Wax'
Paul Otichoda
Perkone
Caldari State
#77 - 2013-08-19 09:12:27 UTC
Archibald Thistlewaite III wrote:
Paul Otichoda wrote:
Archibald Thistlewaite III wrote:


Against rats that have a long range swap the MJD out for either more tank or a target painter to help apply damage better.


are target painters worth it? I haven't trained for them

because on my raven I could only fit it my removing one of my shield boost ampliers


They increase the signature size of the target, so your cruise missiles will do more damage against smaller targets.

I don't use them myself, but thats because I use 3 rigor rigs on my Raven. If you are having trouble killing the smaller ships (Cruiser/Frigate) size, then a TP will help you kill them. If you are having trouble killing the BS size rats then a TP won't make much difference.

I personally wouldn't swap a Shield boost amp. for a target painter. A hardner yes, but it all depends on what your skills allow you to fit.


I can kill battlecruisers and battleships ok, cruisers are a bit of a pain but normally I can take them down.
Morrigan LeSante
Perkone
Caldari State
#78 - 2013-08-19 11:30:06 UTC
If you cant break their tank in a raven, you're not skilled enough. Hell, you can (eventually) take down a million bounty battleship with approx 300dps so yours must be very low indeed.

Furthermore I cannot emphasize enough get 5 drones now. T2 are the next step, the difference they make is huge. If you're losing them, you need to have them engage the enemy closer in so they can be recalled in seconds. I know your reaction will be to kill the frigs as far away as possible but that'll just cost you drones. Also a TP does help your drones a little on frigs. Usually it's a waste but every little will help you.

I'd advise after that you make sure you can use T2 BCUs and T2 hardeners. The rest will keep for now, but those are (imho) non-negotiable.

Also, just buy an armor repairer instead of paying for repair at your career stage.
Paul Otichoda
Perkone
Caldari State
#79 - 2013-08-19 12:02:59 UTC
Morrigan LeSante wrote:
If you cant break their tank in a raven, you're not skilled enough. Hell, you can (eventually) take down a million bounty battleship with approx 300dps so yours must be very low indeed.

Furthermore I cannot emphasize enough get 5 drones now. T2 are the next step, the difference they make is huge. If you're losing them, you need to have them engage the enemy closer in so they can be recalled in seconds. I know your reaction will be to kill the frigs as far away as possible but that'll just cost you drones. Also a TP does help your drones a little on frigs. Usually it's a waste but every little will help you.

I'd advise after that you make sure you can use T2 BCUs and T2 hardeners. The rest will keep for now, but those are (imho) non-negotiable.

Also, just buy an armor repairer instead of paying for repair at your career stage.


I've got just under 400dps with cruise missiles, the mission where I couldn't break the tank of some cruisers was the one called Buzz kill but from reading up on it thats one that no-one likes.

I intend to train up drones next but at the moment I'm training towards being able to overheat for pvp.

I already have access to t2 BCU and hardeners. In truth most of my non weapon fittings are tech 2 now.
Morrigan LeSante
Perkone
Caldari State
#80 - 2013-08-19 12:26:10 UTC
Ah, that's more far more understandable. And that mission is crappy alright Smile.

I'd seriously do drones first - drones are very important in PvP being used (somewhat ironically) to chase off frigs Smile



What's your current fit?