These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Ships & Modules

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
123Next pageLast page
 

Tier 3 battlecruiser are usless
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Etheoma
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2011-11-11 13:47:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Etheoma
Now before the flaming and tolling starts, really think about it what can this ship do better than any other ship in eve can't do in other words what do they add. now I can think of three uses for the tornado at least.

1. Blobing 1 or 2 people from a distance

2. Hit and run in a fleet battle or die

3. the obvious Suicide ganking

but all of those roles can be filled if not better at least equally by other ships

1. Blobing 1 or 2 people from a distance covet Ops but not from such a distance because you have damps

2. Hit and run in a fleet battle or die Covert Ops with bombs

3. Suicide ganking Tier one battleships considering the carebaers have been pacified with the reassurance that they will cost as much as those.

So what do they add? nothing as far as i can see because there speciality can be filled if not better, equally be other ships that are less specialized which means there specialty makes them worse if not = to other ships in eve

Constructive criticism only pleas! or agreement I can abide agreement. :P

Im going to edit this considering people keep on saying the same thing, if you dont want to get near insta poped in a BC gang for support or what ever your going to have to be out at range which even then it doesn't assure you of safety considering battleships can reach even further and being out at range means that you have to reduce your dps to around 350 to 450 which the SB with all skills to 5 can do 550 with other modules like cloak etc or 640 straight damage.

ALSO because some people seem to not know anything about SB's if your in an SB and you die you ****** up or someone ****** up or your ******* unlucky, because those things with a good pilot are near impossible to kill.

And yes if what i heard about the Naga is ture and it actually has a semi decent tank Yes it could tank a POS in a C1 but how many people actually want to take a C1 those things are like common as hell and near empty to boot so why, yes i suppose you could get the into C3s etc with large numbers so yeah they could be useful there but really is there only saving grease the fact that they can take POS's down in WH space... wow there a niche if i had ever heard it.

*head in hand* *sighs* now just dont comment if you have never been in an SB gang and not lost all of your ships because im not going to explain how to use an SB and how hard they are to kill with a good pilot. So just believe me on the fact that there hard to kill if the pilot knows what they are doing. its not about tank with the SB just as its not about the tank with the falcon
Murtific
Collapsed Out
Pandemic Legion
#2 - 2011-11-11 14:10:27 UTC
Etheoma wrote:
Now before the flaming and tolling starts, really think about it what can this ship do better than any other ship in eve can't do in other words what do they add. now I can think of three uses for the tornado at least.

1. Blobing 1 or 2 people from a distance

2. Hit and run in a fleet battle or die

3. the obvious Suicide ganking

but all of those roles can be filled if not better at least equally by other ships

1. Blobing 1 or 2 people from a distance covet Ops but not from such a distance because you have damps

2. Hit and run in a fleet battle or die Covert Ops with bombs

3. Suicide ganking Tier one battleships considering the carebaers have been pacified with the reassurance that they will cost as much as those.

So what do they add? nothing as far as i can see because there speciality can be filled if not better, equally be other ships that are less specialized which means there specialty makes them worse if not = to other ships in eve

Constructive criticism only pleas! or agreement I can abide agreement. :P



you must be in goons with your main, blobbing with maelstroms. xD You mad bro? xD

Think of all the smaller entities that will be able to take on a force that is much larger than they are with better tactics and strategy. You my not so much friend are useless tbh. WASTE OF WHITE TEXT!
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#3 - 2011-11-11 14:12:25 UTC
Etheoma wrote:
So what do they add?
Heavy fire support to cruiser/BC roams.
Etheoma
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#4 - 2011-11-11 14:32:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Etheoma
Murtific wrote:
Etheoma wrote:


3. Suicide ganking Tier one battleships considering the carebaers have been pacified with the reassurance that they will cost as much as those.

Constructive criticism only pleas! or agreement I can abide agreement. :P



Think of all the smaller entities that will be able to take on a force that is much larger than they are with better tactics and strategy. You my not so much friend are useless tbh. WASTE OF WHITE TEXT!


Actually i am in rather a small corp and this is my main, also i said Tier 1 BS

for suicide ganking admittedly the only way you could keep the losses down to even a minimal level you have to use a apoc or armor geddon because you get either 8 or 7 turret hard point on those. then obv you don't get the damage boost that you get on the tornado, but the cost difference will be marginal although you do get 25% more damage with the tornado vs the apoc and another 12.5 + the 25% with the gedon

but for the other reasons the bomber is a much cheaper and superior in what the tornado will be used for.

Also you should take the time to read the full topic, as I did say to keep it to constructive criticism, as least I made the effort to make a proper argument rather than blustering, and trolling. Yes the name of the Topic was provocative, but to get people's attention, not to be a douche bag. as it seem that is what you were aiming for.
Etheoma
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2011-11-11 14:33:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Etheoma
Tippia wrote:
Etheoma wrote:
So what do they add?
Heavy fire support to cruiser/BC roams.

As I implied stealth bombers would be able to do that. more cost effectively and safely if you know how to fly them.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#6 - 2011-11-11 14:38:42 UTC
Etheoma wrote:
As I implied stealth bombers would be able to do that.
Not really, no.
Three torp launchers <<<<< Eight [whatever large weapon system you like].
Kavrae Veila
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2011-11-11 14:43:56 UTC
I was under the impression these were meant to be Cap killers; power of a BS with the sig radius of a BC. Whereas a Stealth Bomber would have the upperhand in alpha damage, these could lay on consistently high damage.
notha atfast
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective
#8 - 2011-11-11 14:50:16 UTC
They could also be used for the corps that want to take over a C1 or to POS bash in a C1. POS bashing is slow with BS guns. It's almost impossible with anything else. That's just another use for them since BS's aren't allowed in C1's.
Etheoma
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2011-11-11 14:52:30 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Etheoma wrote:
As I implied stealth bombers would be able to do that.
Not really, no.
Three torp launchers <<<<< Eight [whatever large weapon system you like].


you can get 640 dps because of the massive damage bonus on bomber I think its 15% per level yes you only get 3 launchers, but you get at lvl 5 75% which makes 6 launchers around about. I'm not going to do the exact math and yes you don't get as much DPS, but they are safer and you can hide your numbers more effectively and they would be able to join you more quickly because of there fast warp time and warp speed. where as with the Tier 3 battlecruisers they cant cloak and if your using torps your doing to have to stay within a reasonable range to fire even with the 10% boost to torps the tornado and others can fire from greater distances, but then they have to use long range weapons which reduces DPS.

so yeah
Etheoma
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#10 - 2011-11-11 14:53:57 UTC
notha atfast wrote:
They could also be used for the corps that want to take over a C1 or to POS bash in a C1. POS bashing is slow with BS guns. It's almost impossible with anything else. That's just another use for them since BS's aren't allowed in C1's.


then you have to think about tanking which im thinking that the only one that could tank the DPS is the Naga which i think is the only useful one.
Soporo
#11 - 2011-11-11 14:56:14 UTC
Kavrae Veila wrote:
I was under the impression these were meant to be Cap killers; power of a BS with the sig radius of a BC. Whereas a Stealth Bomber would have the upperhand in alpha damage, these could lay on consistently high damage.


As far as I can tell, the Naga will be the only one limited to structures, caps and stationary BS. Assuming they go foreward with torps, unbonused torps at that.

Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats. - H.L. Mencken
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#12 - 2011-11-11 14:57:52 UTC
Etheoma wrote:
you can get 640 dps because of the massive damage bonus on bomber I think its 15% per level yes you only get 3 launchers, but you get at lvl 5 75% which makes 6 launchers around about.
…which is still much less than the Tier 3 BCs can offer (not to mention that even with their weaker tank, the BCs offer a survivability that is more in line with the rest of such a cruiser/BC gang).

So no, bombers can't provide the same support the new BCs can.
Etheoma
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#13 - 2011-11-11 14:59:17 UTC
Soporo wrote:
Kavrae Veila wrote:
I was under the impression these were meant to be Cap killers; power of a BS with the sig radius of a BC. Whereas a Stealth Bomber would have the upperhand in alpha damage, these could lay on consistently high damage.


As far as I can tell, the Naga will be the only one limited to structures, caps and stationary BS. Assuming they go foreward with torps, unbonused torps at that.


Battlecruiser Skill bonus per level:
10% bonus to Torpedo Velocity
10% bonus to Large Hybrid Turret optimal range

Role Bonus:
95% reduction in the powergrid need of Large Hybrid Turrets
50% reduction in the CPU need of Large Hybrid Turrets
50% reduction in the capacitor need of Large Hybrid Turrets
40% reduction in the powergrid need of Siege Missile Launchers
58% reduction in the CPU need of Siege Missile Launchers
Soporo
#14 - 2011-11-11 14:59:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Soporo
Etheoma wrote:
notha atfast wrote:
They could also be used for the corps that want to take over a C1 or to POS bash in a C1. POS bashing is slow with BS guns. It's almost impossible with anything else. That's just another use for them since BS's aren't allowed in C1's.


then you have to think about tanking which im thinking that the only one that could tank the DPS is the Naga which i think is the only useful one.


Why do you think that? If it's torps (specially unbonused ones) then your mids are needed for painters and your rig slots are needed for rigors and maybe a range rig, also: lol @ 3 low slots.

Edit: Ah, using Rails. With no tracking, rof bonus or damage bonus. This equates to suckage compared to the others methinks.

Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats. - H.L. Mencken
Etheoma
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#15 - 2011-11-11 15:00:57 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Etheoma wrote:
you can get 640 dps because of the massive damage bonus on bomber I think its 15% per level yes you only get 3 launchers, but you get at lvl 5 75% which makes 6 launchers around about.
…which is still much less than the Tier 3 BCs can offer (not to mention that even with their weaker tank, the BCs offer a survivability that is more in line with the rest of such a cruiser/BC gang).

So no, bombers can't provide the same support the new BCs can.


if your in an SB you have a good fit and can fly it properly if you die your flying it properly.
Etheoma
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#16 - 2011-11-11 15:03:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Etheoma
Soporo wrote:
Etheoma wrote:
notha atfast wrote:
They could also be used for the corps that want to take over a C1 or to POS bash in a C1. POS bashing is slow with BS guns. It's almost impossible with anything else. That's just another use for them since BS's aren't allowed in C1's.


then you have to think about tanking which im thinking that the only one that could tank the DPS is the Naga which i think is the only useful one.


Why do you think that? If it's torps (specially unbonused ones) then your mids are needed for painters and your rig slots are needed for rigors and maybe a range rig, also: lol @ 3 low slots.

Edit: Ah, using Rails. With no tracking, rof bonus or damage bonus. This equates to suckage compared to the others methinks.


Er target painting a POS that's a bit unnecessary... and soon as you take out energy nuets warp scram and warp disrupt you can get in nice a tight.
Soporo
#17 - 2011-11-11 15:09:06 UTC
Having another niche POS shooter will be disapointing. Especially comparing the utility and multipotentiality of the others, specially the Tornado.

Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats. - H.L. Mencken
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#18 - 2011-11-11 15:11:11 UTC
Etheoma wrote:
if your in an SB you have a good fit and can fly it properly if you die your flying it properly.
…which doesn't change the fact that, no, SBs can't provide the same heavy fire support (or a tank to match the capabilities of the rest of the cruiser roam) as the BCs can.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#19 - 2011-11-11 15:16:25 UTC
Soporo wrote:
Etheoma wrote:
notha atfast wrote:
They could also be used for the corps that want to take over a C1 or to POS bash in a C1. POS bashing is slow with BS guns. It's almost impossible with anything else. That's just another use for them since BS's aren't allowed in C1's.


then you have to think about tanking which im thinking that the only one that could tank the DPS is the Naga which i think is the only useful one.


Why do you think that? If it's torps (specially unbonused ones) then your mids are needed for painters and your rig slots are needed for rigors and maybe a range rig, also: lol @ 3 low slots.

Edit: Ah, using Rails. With no tracking, rof bonus or damage bonus. This equates to suckage compared to the others methinks.


All the hipster kids are fitting rigors to their torp boats these days.

It's an irony thing.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Etheoma
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#20 - 2011-11-11 15:27:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Etheoma
Tippia wrote:
Etheoma wrote:
if your in an SB you have a good fit and can fly it properly if you die your flying it properly.
…which doesn't change the fact that, no, SBs can't provide the same heavy fire support (or a tank to match the capabilities of the rest of the cruiser roam) as the BCs can.


this is the last time I'm going to break this down for you In the tornado you have 20 ish k EHP the others are around about the same apart from the naga now the problem with the naga is it can only use torps and only gets a 10% bonus pers level of battlecruisers for torp speed which only give you around a 30k distance now at this distance it is rather easy for people to shoot at you or burn over to you to tackle you do the rest of the fleet can kill you

the others have paper thin tanks so if your in close range you will get insta popped or close enough so they need to be at range and at range you can only do around 350 to 450 DPS the SB's can do 550 to 640 depending on the fit

now which number is higher 550 or 450? don't get confused because the bigger number is first.
123Next pageLast page