EVE General Discussion

See above, I edited my last reply with relevant information. As for where it will end. I am not a game designer, so I have no say in the matter, nor am I qualified to set the exact context and borders. However, I will ask you to use your common sense (I know, dangerous to do so on the internet) and think about it.

A general guideline is: the rules and circumstances need to be clear for all involved. The rules are clear about corp mates shooting each other. You know, up front, what you are getting into. But in the loophole we closed you may or may not receive an aggression flag... maybe... completely at the mercy of another pilot. Oh, and you will not be warned about it. All the while severely limiting group play for a major game feature.

That is the difference.

And when you jump into low sec there is a popup warning...

When you try shoot someone who isn't "flashy" there is a warning...

When you try to assist someone who is at war there is a warning...

etc. etc.


All of these warnings you can turn off, but you are told you are about to do something with a consequence.

Risk is good, but completely blind and unavoidable risk is not very high on the "fun" stakes.

TL:DR Highsec is risk free aside from wardecs, feel free to trust anyone, fleet anyone, rep anyone, farm anything, and autopilot around the land of rainbows and hugs.

CCP have now nerfed the old wardecced fleet members, remote repping, contracts and all other transactions, and introduced iskcursions. Tell me, where is the harsh and unforgiving part of this game again? Because i'm pretty sure it's supposed to be everywhere.

And as for the trolls claiming that ganking shouldn't be risk free and that griefers are running a one-sided argument, where is the risk that you guys are taking now? What risk is justifying that ridiculous income from incursions? Do you think you are at risk with 3 logis repping you? Do you think that maybe after running hundreds of sites a day that you might get the next one wrong and hit a trigger? Yes that does sound very dangerous, perhaps we should dock up until ccp can help us out with those nasty sanshas too.
Gankers don't need a risk, because in suicide ganking, you're GUARANTEED to lose the ship. You lose ships, isk, modules, and sec status. While the gankee only loses a ship.
You talk about risk free, why should you waltz around in pimp ships with pimp fits, disregarding any thought of risk when you're surrounded by people with a lot less to lose than you have? Would you walk around dark city allyways with your big old platinum chain and rolex hanging out of your shirt? If you do, then you deserve to get them taken from you.

It may be a small effort to rob you of your goodies, but it is an even smaller effort for you to protect them, you just don't do it because it would be inconvenient for you.

OLD SCHOOL.

Incursions Blacklist hasn't had a single update since CCP started wiping their bottoms for them.

So you're saying that before this change player A was already getting a warning if player B had stolen from his friend player C 5 minutes ago and player A started repping player B? You're saying that Slimy Worm actually had to show up on grid personally (on his griefing main) to do the can-flipping in the middle of an Incursion site? Edit: Or leave a can on grid ahead of time (huge warning flag if a griefer corp can is on grid of a site I'm running.)

If that's true, then I stand corrected. But I seriously doubt Paul Clavet (of My Loot, Your Tears) is that stupid.

If it's not true, then put the paste down and get back to work.

Let me guess, the people who don't like the rep warning are the same people who emoraged over WTZ and dialog boxes warning you before you went into lowsec.


Let's all help them out: let's all go to Amamake or Old Man Star and wait to be ganked by them, with our best ships, just so they can feel good for a minute.


I train people in the use of small arms, and they get very excited and full of drama about paper targets that don't shoot back.

Griefer tears and carebear rage reminds of me all that.


It's s freaking game. FFS.

I can think of a 1000 things for people to be angry at that are worthy of being angry at.

That's burns my ass, like a 3' flame.

Yes, you would get a warning. The warning would only happen when you start the rep. If the rep was already running you'd get no warning. Why are people having such a hard time with this?

Here's a few quotes from an Incursion griefer's blog. I've bolded the important bits. The tl;dr is that I was right all along (big surprise.) You got NO pop-up warning before you started repping a can-flipper before this change, you only got a notification once you'd repped him that you now have an aggression flag.

"Last night, however, we got one of the most delicious kills. I had invited several people to a fake fleet and told them to meet up at a planet. I was paying special attention to those with remote cap or shield/armor rep or whatever. I had a Basi on the line when I spotted a Rattlesnake I couldn’t turn down. He had an armor rep in his utility high and when I asked him about it he told me a story about how it had saved the day recently. I pretended it was a cool story, bro, and commented off-handedly that he should hit me with it. He didn’t buy it.

I was on comms with both the incursion fleet and fellow Skunks and our aggression was starting to tick down and the Rattlesnake wasn’t biting, so we decided to pounce on the Basi so that we’d at least get something. The fleet was mid-warp when the Basi started asking why he got aggression from me and started even naming specific people I had aggression on. I feigned ignorance while the fleet landed and started ruining his day."

Notice he says "our aggression was starting to tick down," hence he already had done the can-flipping.

He continues ...

"I hit planet five and went through the whole ‘what happened’ song and dance when he offered to fix up my armor for me. I was absolutely stoked and told the rest of the fleet to get into position while I had this exchange with him:

Him: “Okay, I’m targeting you. Do you have aggression?”

Me: “I was going to rep that logi, but then you told me I would end up dead that way, so I didn’t.”

Him: “Okay. Take a look around, is there anybody on grid who aggressed you?”

Me, pretending to check my overview carefully: “…nope.”

Him: “Okay. Repping you.”"

There'd be no reason for this cautious victim to ask about aggression if there was a pop-up. This cautious victim activated his remote armor repper, got no pop-up, and lost his Rattlesnake.

Moral of the story: CCP employees/fanbois: when someone who is right as often as I am makes a claim, and you know that you are wrong as often as you are, do your homework before you dispute that claim. Thanks.

I don't see where that was said at all as the scenario presented says player A was already repping B. No other cases were presented. Did i miss something?

I fixed your spin to put a little more emphasis on the "important to EvE's uniqueness in a world of ****** PvE MMOs" aspect of the changes....