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[Odyssey 1.1] Command Ships

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Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#921 - 2013-08-07 15:57:34 UTC
CCP Fozzie

[b wrote:
Astarte:[/b]
+100 Armor
  • Shifting strength between the bonuses adds an extra 1 effective turret (11, vs 10 in the initial proposal and 10.9 on TQ now).
    • Medium Hybrid damage bonus changed to 7.5% per level of Gallente BC
    Medium Hybrid RoF bonus changed to 7.5% per level of Command Ships

    Eos:
    -300 Shield
    +500 Armor
    +300 Hull

    We're moving the gang link bonuses for command ships back to the command ships skill, at 3% per level instead of the 15% role bonus.

    I recognize that a lot of people are unhappy with the existence of active repair bonuses on half of these ships, but I think that giving all command ships buffer bonuses isn't the right way to go. I believe that the four skirmish bonused command ships will all be viable for people who choose not to use the repair bonuses after this patch.


    Lovely stuff :)

    Only one thing concerns me- the speeds of Astarte and Eos, especially Eos is really very slow, and might have issues getting to brawl properly because of that. Skirmish, BS speeds...

    There is a huge gap in EHP between these two ships and Damnation, and I do understand the whines of the blobheads- when there's a differences of well over 100K EHP. However, blob PVP is a small niche in EVE and all ships shouldn't be designed for that.

    .
    Harvey James
    The Sengoku Legacy
    #922 - 2013-08-07 16:01:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Harvey James
    Seems to me its caldari who have been shafted in both this thread and the HAC thread.... besides the cerberus that eventually got fixed after a lot of posting and the CSM probably did the most convincing..

    And please explain why Navy BC's get more slots?????

    T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

    ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

    Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
    Ranger 1
    Ranger Corp
    Vae. Victis.
    #923 - 2013-08-07 16:03:50 UTC
    Quote:
    However, blob PVP is a small niche in EVE and all ships shouldn't be designed for that.


    In this case I actually somewhat agree with this.

    It is in huge fleet fights that some of these link bonuses start to scale badly, so if CS use is a bit difficult in that situation compared to smaller scale engagements that actually has some up sides.

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    Phantra
    Network Dynamics
    #924 - 2013-08-07 16:06:01 UTC
    not bad.
    Valterra Craven
    #925 - 2013-08-07 16:08:19 UTC
    Fozzie, any comments about the CPU of these ships?

    You stole 100 PG from most of the ships because you took two main damage slots away and made links only cost 100 PG each, but the cpu on those links either needs to come down as well to fit like a gun, or the ships need to be given a tad more CPU to fit those links with 5 guns like you intend. (They take +20 CPU each versus the weapons you'd fit before)
    Harvey James
    The Sengoku Legacy
    #926 - 2013-08-07 16:08:37 UTC
    Phantra wrote:
    not bad.


    but far from good either Sad

    T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

    ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

    Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
    Maximus Andendare
    Stimulus
    Rote Kapelle
    #927 - 2013-08-07 16:09:17 UTC
    Is the OP going to be updated to reflect the 3% per level, or was I reading that wrong?

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    Ersahi Kir
    Brutor Tribe
    Minmatar Republic
    #928 - 2013-08-07 16:10:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Ersahi Kir
    CCP Fozzie wrote:
    Maximus Andendare wrote:
    Are you still happy with the Damnation's dual tank bonuses and how that effectively makes the Damnation the only viable fleet command ship?


    I considered dropping the armor hp bonus from the Damnation, but in the end I think it's ok for it to have a strong identity, even if that identity makes it more popular than the others for large fleet warfare.


    All you have to do to fix the entire 'fleet ship' thing is to change the damnation bonus from electronic warfare to a skirmish bonus. If you did that no one would care how bad the Galente command ships are in fleet.

    CCP Fozzie wrote:
    I recognize that a lot of people are unhappy with the existence of active repair bonuses on half of these ships, but I think that giving all command ships buffer bonuses isn't the right way to go. I believe that the four skirmish bonus command ships will all be viable for people who choose not to use the repair bonuses after this patch.


    They're crap for the niche of boosting in a fleet. The job will be taken over by brick tanked T3 even with a smaller bonus. There's no point in putting a paper tank booster on the field or else everyone in their wing is going to lose bonuses as soon as the shooting starts.

    /eos turret tracking bonus is still crap
    Heribeck Weathers
    Caldari Provisions
    Caldari State
    #929 - 2013-08-07 16:13:22 UTC
    Love the changes... except for... WHY you no make vulture worth flying out side of link only fits?!? Its an eagle with two utility highs. please give it a bigger damage bonus, or maybe take a range bonus to a trackign bonus, or anything to make people atempt to brawl ocasionaly with it.
    Phoenix Jones
    Small-Arms Fire
    #930 - 2013-08-07 16:14:12 UTC
    The eos tracking bonus is more of a misunderstanding than worthless. It's probably more of a ship that can deal with smaller ships, frigates, etc.

    It is not a alpha boat, but it is not totally screwed either if it gets tackled by a Atron.

    50/50 on it so far. It could have a more useful bonus... I could not tell you what that bonus should be though.

    Yaay!!!!
    Harvey James
    The Sengoku Legacy
    #931 - 2013-08-07 16:14:52 UTC
    it seems like 90% of the things we have said have been ignored and you just gave us or taken away some HP and messed around a little with bonuses that give us an extra half a turret... great listening fozzie at least rise changes stuff in his threads to things we actually want

    T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

    ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

    Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
    Omnathious Deninard
    University of Caille
    Gallente Federation
    #932 - 2013-08-07 16:15:09 UTC
    CCP Fozzie, any chance of changing command processors into rigs?

    If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
    Harvey James
    The Sengoku Legacy
    #933 - 2013-08-07 16:16:31 UTC
    Heribeck Weathers wrote:
    Love the changes... except for... WHY you no make vulture worth flying out side of link only fits?!? Its an eagle with two utility highs. please give it a bigger damage bonus, or maybe take a range bonus to a trackign bonus, or anything to make people atempt to brawl ocasionaly with it.


    in the ATXI it was used with missiles ..... tell you something about those optimal bonuses at all fozzie???

    T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

    ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

    Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
    Trolly McForumalt
    Doomheim
    #934 - 2013-08-07 16:18:46 UTC
    CCP Fozzie wrote:
    Update time!

    [snip]

    Nighthawk:
    +75 PWG

    [/snip]



    Wow. Not good enough.

    Here are the respective PGs of the missile CSs:
    Damnation 1300
    Nighthawk 900
    Claymore 1100

    Still needs more PG. Though considering all the feedback that pointed this out and you still only gave it 75 more PG I suppose no one will be holding their breath. Is that why you are keeping the 5M/5L setup? Because you know it will need a low slot that adds grid? This is sloppy.

    One final note: add bonuses to RLML (or just remove the restriction to HAM and HML) to all the missile ships. Unless you are trying to keep that module off hulls larger than cruiser size - are you?
    Grarr Dexx
    Blue Canary
    Watch This
    #935 - 2013-08-07 16:19:04 UTC
    Looks like you've finally learned to play, Fozzie. This is what the Astarte needed. Thanks.
    Ersahi Kir
    Brutor Tribe
    Minmatar Republic
    #936 - 2013-08-07 16:19:11 UTC
    Phoenix Jones wrote:
    The eos tracking bonus is more of a misunderstanding than worthless. It's probably more of a ship that can deal with smaller ships, frigates, etc.

    It is not a alpha boat, but it is not totally screwed either if it gets tackled by a Atron.

    50/50 on it so far. It could have a more useful bonus... I could not tell you what that bonus should be though.


    The turret tracking bonus is at odds with the rest of the ship. The ship has bonuses that are designed for a heavy drone boat except the turret tracking bonus. It needs to have another bonus that's aligned with it's role/niche.
    CCP Fozzie
    C C P
    C C P Alliance
    #937 - 2013-08-07 16:19:44 UTC
    Omnathious Deninard wrote:
    CCP Fozzie, any chance of changing command processors into rigs?


    I talked a little about stuff like that in the thread on links and bonuses.

    https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3458485#post3458485

    TL:DR quite possibly.

    Game Designer | Team Five-0

    Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
    Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie
    CCP Fozzie
    C C P
    C C P Alliance
    #938 - 2013-08-07 16:20:40 UTC
    Trolly McForumalt wrote:
    Unless you are trying to keep that module off hulls larger than cruiser size - are you?


    Yes.

    Game Designer | Team Five-0

    Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
    Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie
    Harvey James
    The Sengoku Legacy
    #939 - 2013-08-07 16:20:58 UTC
    FOZZIE

    please nerf minnie resists they are higher than the rest of the CS and tell rise to do it in the HAC thread

    Also why does the Astarte get loads of damage bonuses but the vulture merely gets a token damage bonus????

    T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

    ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

    Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
    Maximus Andendare
    Stimulus
    Rote Kapelle
    #940 - 2013-08-07 16:22:26 UTC
    Ersahi Kir wrote:
    Phoenix Jones wrote:
    The eos tracking bonus is more of a misunderstanding than worthless. It's probably more of a ship that can deal with smaller ships, frigates, etc.

    It is not a alpha boat, but it is not totally screwed either if it gets tackled by a Atron.

    50/50 on it so far. It could have a more useful bonus... I could not tell you what that bonus should be though.


    The turret tracking bonus is at odds with the rest of the ship. The ship has bonuses that are designed for a heavy drone boat except the turret tracking bonus. It needs to have another bonus that's aligned with it's role/niche.
    Oh man. That tracking bonus would be PERFECT to turn into a +10% Armor HP per level.

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