Science & Industry

Oh no not another one of these posts.

One of my associates has started using a Mackinaw instead of a Hulk to mine ore because his Hulk was lost to a four Catalyst team but also because the Mackinaw has a far better tank.

I won't list the full fittings but with the 5% yield hardwiring fitted which of the following would give more yield?

Hulk: MLU II x 1. Running with Scordite T2 mining crystals

Mackinaw: MLU II x 1. Running with Scordite T2 mining crystals
MLU I x 1.

It seemed to me at a glance that with the above fittings the Mackinaw was giving better a yield. If this is the case, which it probably isn't, then it would mean the Hulk is now a joke ship and has been rendered useless by CCP's ship 'rebalancing' program. I'm not personally in favour of any of the 'rebalancing' done so far so I'm somewhat biased regarding this situation.

Nevertheless if someone would be kind enough to do the math and settle this one I would be grateful.

PS This is not a troll. I am genuinely interested.

Hulk still rules: charts are about halfway down the page.

Mining in a Hulk is extremely tedious. I recommend you recycle your hulks, put the minerals into a hauler, go to HED and jettison the container.

Mining in a Mack is not much different to fitting a mining laser and engines to a jet-can. That is what I'd recommend.

Also, if you're fitting MLU, you're doing it wrong. Reduce the yield, increase the survivability. Or, work out how long you'd have to mine with your extra yield in order to replace the cost of your ship. If it's a long time, don't bother with the MLU. I haven't fitted one for ages.

the HULK is better, but it depends on your fit and on your skills. At exhummer 1 the Mack will be close to the Hulk, even fit for max yield. This is due to the Mack being able to fit 3 MLU II's @ 9% each compared to the Hulks 2. Where the Hulk gets the advantage is its hull bonus of 3% per level of mining barge, and 3% per level of exhumers. all the other bonuses are the same. The base hull bonuses give each ship a base equal to 3 strip miners. 1x200% for the procurewr/skiff, 2x50% for the retriever/mack, and 3 strips for the covetor/Hulk. All the other bonuses from implants, fleet boosts, mining skills, crystals, etc. are the same for all ships.

lets consider max yield fits to show the maximum difference.

At Exhummers 1 the Hulk gets (3x5)=15% for mining barge 5 plus 1x3=3% for exhumers 1, plus 9x2=18% for 2 MLU II's = 36%, While the Mack gets 1x1=1% for exhumers 1 plus 3x9=27% for 3 MLU II's =28% only an 8% difference, which gets much smaller as you trade yield for tank.

but at exhummers 4 the Hulk gets a total hull bonus of (3x5)+(3x4)= 27% + 2x9=18% for the MLU's = 45% boost over the base which is the same for all exhummers. While the mack gets only 1% per level of exhummers 1x4=4%+ 3x9=27% for the MLU's =31% over the base boosts. a 14% difference, which gets bigger as you trade yield for tank.

As you can see the Hulk is no longer King of the hill, just has the highest yield, but no longer by a huge margin.

However when it comes to ICE mining the Hulk hull bonuses are much weaker. allowing the Mack to out mine the Hulk at lower skill levels. The Hulk does not pass the mack until exhummers 3 if both are fit for max yield.

Both the HULK and the MACK can be fit for max yield and still fit a 20k ehp tank, closer to 30k ehp if tanked specific for thermal/kenetic. That is enough to survive a single Talos or 3-4 catalysts depending on how they are fit. At the very least the gankers will not make a profit off you.

I've never understood this mindset.

An untanked Hulk will be ganked with a probability P1/hr.
A more heavily tanked Hulk will be ganked with probability P2/hr, where P2 is less than P1.
A Skiff will be ganked with a probability P3/hr, where P3 is far less than P2.

Saying "If they're going to gank you they are going to gank you" is, of course, tautologically true, but it misses the point that you can do lots of things to change the value of that "If."

Some people are so overly paranoid about being blowed-up they nerf their profits for years through over-analysis and tanking that ultimately are useless and futile anyway.

So a dead space fit HULK with 100k ehp does not have an equal chance of getting ganked as a max yield fit HULK.? I guess I can believe that, after all the multi-billion isk HULK is a much more attractive target, even if it takes more ships to kill.

The only way to survive a GOON gank fleet is to pay attention, and bug out before they target you. Tank really has very little effect.

I did WHAT ?? Not much to do with Hulk Ganking there........

I repeat: If they are going to gank you they are going to gank you, and they will make sure they will gank you.

And, like I said, that is true. Tautologically so.

The question is whether you, as a miner, can affect the likelihood of being picked by fitting a tank. You're skipping ahead a step in the discussion to after you've been selected as a target.