Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Is a reduction to locking time a "quality of life" improvement or a tactical benefit?

Is a reduction to align time a "quality of life" improvement or a tactical benefit?

Is a reduction to manufacturing time a "quality of life" improvement or a tactical benefit?

Is a reduction to POS fuel consumption a "quality of life" improvement or a tactical benefit?

I would suggest that a miner doesn't care about locking time, so a reduction in locking time is only applicable to a small niche of players: shorter locking time is a tactical advantage.

All of these skill-based modifications to the basic rules of the game are tactical (or at least strategic) in nature. Your comparison to "warp and dock" is unsound, simply because access to jump clones is skill-based in the first place.

Look at other skill-based activities in the game: there is a skill to use each class of weapon. Then there are skills to reduce the cycle time of the weapon, reduce the power consumption, and in the case of some modules, increase the number you can fit to your ship. Look at Astrometrics: there is a skill to do astrometrics at all, then there is a skill to reduce the cycle time of the astrometrics analysis process.

Thus throughout the existing skill three there are skills whose only purpose is to reduce the cycle time of some other skill. Why should jump clones be any different? Clones are part of the equipment we fit to any ship. Being able to switch every day rather than every two days is a tactical and strategic advantage. This advantage needs to be bought and paid for in the same way as any other advantage: either through training skills or through use of equipment which other players can destroy.

I am all for increasing the hour reduction of this skill from 1 to 2, along with increasing the base clone jump timer from 24 hours to 28 hours just to make it clear that you are indeed buying an advantage.

Seriously?? Death clones are used by so many to simply move from 1 location to another, a 5 hour reduction in JC times is not going to effect that at all.. During times of alliance deployment most run empty clones for the duration, I have at times death cloned to and from a deployment 2 or 3 times in a 24 hour period when the need arises.
I agree with others if 19 hours is the maximum reduction we can expect why not just simply reduce the time on JC's from 24hrs to 19.. Having to drop a skill that will actually be helpful in pew pew to train a skill to allow me to pew pew 5 hours earlier?? Doesn't make a lot of sense, I'll probably just stick to death clones..

Suggestion; why not make jump cloning at shorter intervals isk based.. you jump to a training clone then 18 hours later you want to be in a pvp clone, cost is XXX isk.. you want to jump 12 hours later cost is XXXXisk.. you want to swap clones within 12 hours is XXXXXXXXisk.. Make it a user pays system, no new skills to train but isk based..

why 12h cool down would not be over powered;

its still realistically 1J/session but gives flexibility as to when that is between weekday and weekend play

you cant bring assets with you (obvious but following the thread could do with restating)

If every one has the same tool its not an imbalance

9/10 a jump is made to get into combat, not avoid it

you still wont be where you need to be exactly just closer and still need to run the gauntlet of gates to get from your JC to the action

you can only have 5 max JC in strategic locations and most players have a no more than 4.



Lets be brutally honest Eve is awesome in spite of its self. I love eve as do we all, I wouldnt be writing this and still playing after 4 years if I didnt.
But lets look at an average play session of say 4h what do we actually do during those 4h,
1h google-fu eft/dotlan ect.
1h traveling while playing another game/watching netflix on another monitor
20min of PI (which we hate but cant say no to the isk)
10min reading mails/chatting to corp bros

leaving 1h30 to do the thing we logged on to do in the 1st place

sound about right?

The nay sayers argument is pretty much force projection is bad, it should take forever to do something.
why?
whats wrong with cutting down the busy work and letting players get to the bit they consider play as fast as possible.
12h is not game breaking it would not be possible for a player to jump twice in one day but give real freedom as to when that jump is.
JC is not really the bug bear of the force projection group any way, YOU CAN NOT BRING GEAR WITH YOU. Titan/blop/jump bridges can but require real strategic investment and imo are balanced because of it.
Lets look at the resent large battles do you think Asakai or 6VDT would or even could have happened with out force projection?

TL;DR
12h please
other stuff.....

Any sink means more plex sales.

I am sure its been said a lot already.

Just adding another vote for the fact that lvl 5 of this skill should make it 12 hours.

Faster locking time allows a clear advantage in combat over a character with slower locking time. With 2 e-war ships it often decides which ship gets to lock at all. Faster align time is crucial to in game survivability. Faster manufacturing time reduces costs and increases your production capability. Reduction in POS fuel costs reduces your expenses. All great skills to have, provide good in game advantages, provide competative advantages at certain professions and aren't there to fix a design problem.

You're basic mistake is trying to compare skills designed to provide gameplay advantages in a competitive environment to a skill, where its entire reason for existing is to address out of game convenience problems caused by short sighted design of the jump clone mechanic. It has minor gameplay side affect with instant travel, but nothing that already didn't exist in the game. Maybe the exact line between the two groups is sometimes hard to draw, but this isn't one of those times. This skill clearly falls in to the quality of life -category and is entirely needless filler, that should never exist as a trainable skill. The only good thing about it is, that it's still better then the current situation.

I'm not that concerned about it per se, since I've lived with the old limitation for years. My problem is, that I've not seen any reason given by CCP why they deem it necessary, that new players should be denied that convenience right from the start. That you have to earn this particular sensible fix to an out of game problem. Usually when you put limits on your players you can justify it in a very reasonable way. From a gameplay perspective the likely reason is the teleportation provided, but pod travel already exists, the shorter cooldown is still very long, not seen as a problem to the game and that is not what the skill primarily intended for. In their own words it's being added to: "to avoid situations where jump clone delay pushes jump clone use back a bit each play session until eventually people wind up stranded in the wrong clone during their few hours of play time.". Surely every player regardless how old their character is is potentially affected by this problem, so why not fix it for every player instead of giving every character the option to train the antidote for this particular quality of life poison?

Yeah but the JC mechanic works on a different time and scale compared to ship align time. Imagine if when CCP implemented the skill queue they had piggybacked it onto the skill system so that in order to have a 24 hour queue you hade to take a skill to level 5. Or imagine they wanted to do that now.

There was people who were all **** and vinegar about how a skill queue was a crutch for the non-dedicated and real pilots sets an alarm clock to not lose any skill points and if you weren't ready to do that maybe you deserved to lose out on SP and be at a disadvantage relative to the hardcore players. And they were wrong.

IF you remove the +4 and +5 it would only make +3 cost around 1 bil instead sense it would be the best implant.
It really would not solve anything, also you do not HAVE to use implants, you are not forced to use implants for faster SP

Just complain and want to have them just cause X and Y have them and have a edge over you is just a bit stupid.

I like a game where it IS hard to find gear, for people who manage to actually make a huge income, it takes effort, ISK don't literately land in your lap wile you twiddle your thumbs

Hmm, what is this talk about barriers, and why you you NEED to train the skill? your not forced to have the skill learned, you talk about as you HAVE to have all skills to max, witch you really don't, heck for pvp you can get a new toon trainfor 2 weeks then get into a rifter and have fun in LS no problem at all! time never is waste unless you decide it will be.

+1 to you for actually understanding that the game is about hardship and not just get everything maxed out within a week. ^^/

Lets keep the game Cruel, evil and hard! and love it for it!