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One major problem with removing OGBs.

Author
Diesel47
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1 - 2013-08-06 13:38:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Diesel47
Here is the newest post: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=264773&find=unread

Currently: If a smaller gang wants to fight a bigger gang, they are already at a disadvantage because of numbers. When the bigger gang starts using ganglinks that boost their speed, web/scram range, and tank.. The small gang has no choice but to also do the same. This is done by T3 alts, off grid. Thus both sides are equal in terms of bonuses.


Proposed Idea: A smaller gang wants to fight a bigger gang, they jump in and realize the bigger gang has a massively tanked command ship giving off all types of bonuses. They no longer can use an off grid boost so they don't receive any bonuses to counter the bigger gang, The bigger gang effectively has more ships, goes faster, scrams further, and tanks harder than the smaller gang. How is that any better?

This is a big "**** you" to all small gang PvPers out there. Why buff the already too strong blobs?

How are you going to fix this CCP? Or are you just saying "if you want to win you have to blob"?


If this is honestly their best idea I'd rather have bonuses removed all together.
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#2 - 2013-08-06 13:41:27 UTC
Diesel47 wrote:
Here is the newest post: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=264773&find=unread

Currently: If a smaller gang wants to fight a bigger gang, they are already at a disadvantage because of numbers. When the bigger gang starts using ganglinks that boost their speed, web/scram range, and tank.. The small gang has no choice but to also do the same. This is done by T3 alts, off grid. Thus both sides are equal in terms of bonuses.


Proposed Idea: A smaller gang wants to fight a bigger gang, they jump in and realize the bigger gang has a massively tanked command ship giving off all types of bonuses. They no longer can use an off grid boost so they don't receive any bonuses to counter the bigger gang, The bigger gang effectively has more ships, goes faster, scrams further, and tanks harder than the smaller gang. How is that any better?

This is a big "**** you" to all small gang PvPers out there. Why buff the already too strong blobs?

How are you going to fix this CCP? Or are you just saying "if you want to win you have to blob"?


I think you already answered your own question with the last sentence of your post.
Brewlar Kuvakei
Adeptio Gloriae
#3 - 2013-08-06 13:42:21 UTC
What? Why can't the small gang have an an on grid booster too?
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#4 - 2013-08-06 13:43:34 UTC
Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:
What? Why can't the small gang have an an on grid booster too?


Because only big blobs are rich enough to field command ships, apparently.
Rengerel en Distel
#5 - 2013-08-06 13:44:42 UTC
Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:
What? Why can't the small gang have an an on grid booster too?


My guess would be because the people with the larger numbers would take it out faster?

The flaw in the theory that things should be fair is that this is a game built on the principle that nothing about the game is fair. Everything is the blob. They balance ships based on the blob. They balance skills based on the blob, etc.

With the increase in shiptoasting, the Report timer needs to be shortened.

Diesel47
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#6 - 2013-08-06 13:46:03 UTC
Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:
What? Why can't the small gang have an an on grid booster too?


Yeah because every time somebody wants to PvP in a handful of cruisers or assault frigates they should bring a claymore with them so they can stay competitive.

Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:


I think you already answered your own question with the last sentence of your post.


I just want to hear it straight from the horses mouth.
Diesel47
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#7 - 2013-08-06 13:47:46 UTC
Rengerel en Distel wrote:
Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:
What? Why can't the small gang have an an on grid booster too?


My guess would be because the people with the larger numbers would take it out faster?

The flaw in the theory that things should be fair is that this is a game built on the principle that nothing about the game is fair. Everything is the blob. They balance ships based on the blob. They balance skills based on the blob, etc.


The current system works alot better than the proposed idea.

This makes it a bad change in this regard.
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#8 - 2013-08-06 13:50:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Petrus Blackshell
Small gang PvP (and by extension, Eve) is dying.


  • Split their gang so the booster is not on grid.
  • Bring your own booster in on grid but super far away. Claymores and T3s aren't slow, y'know?
  • Use proper skirmish tactics with an appropriate ship. Armor cruisers and AFs are not appropriate.
  • Somehow find out who their squad commanders are (if they have > 11 people) and blow those up.
  • If they don't fly fight-appropriate fleets... don't fight them? Blobs aren't hard to avoid.


Most importantly, though, stop complaining that fighting outnumbered is hard. Would you like off-grid remote reps, ECM, or perhaps even off-grid damage, all in the name of "my enemies have more friends than I do, boo hoo Sad"?

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)

Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings
#9 - 2013-08-06 13:55:09 UTC
Quote:
Most importantly, though, stop complaining that fighting outnumbered is hard. Would you like off-grid remote reps, ECM, or perhaps even off-grid damage, all in the name of "my enemies have more friends than I do, boo hoo


Maybe before blurfing on the forums about something you clearly know nothing about you should get yourself a link alt and try out some solo PVP.
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#10 - 2013-08-06 13:56:19 UTC
Kahega Amielden wrote:

Maybe before blurfing on the forums about something you clearly know nothing about you should get yourself three link alts, two Falcon alts, three spider tank Guardian alts, and a covops scouting alt and try out some solo PVP.


FYP.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)

Tyrendian Biohazard
The Bastards
Sedition.
#11 - 2013-08-06 13:59:04 UTC
Sounds like the smaller group should have picked their fights better.

Twitch streamer and EVE NT tournament broadcaster.

Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings
#12 - 2013-08-06 13:59:15 UTC
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
Kahega Amielden wrote:

Maybe before blurfing on the forums about something you clearly know nothing about you should get yourself three link alts, two Falcon alts, three spider tank Guardian alts, and a covops scouting alt and try out some solo PVP.


FYP.


I was working on the assumption you're poor and thus could only qualify for the bare minimum for solo PVP. Obviously, if you're going to take on the blob while solo, it helps to have more ships than they do.
Diesel47
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#13 - 2013-08-06 14:00:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Diesel47
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
Small gang PvP (and by extension, Eve) is dying.


  • Split their gang so the booster is not on grid.
  • Bring your own booster in on grid but super far away. Claymores and T3s aren't slow, y'know?
  • Use proper skirmish tactics with an appropriate ship. Armor cruisers and AFs are not appropriate.
  • Somehow find out who their squad commanders are (if they have > 11 people) and blow those up.
  • If they don't fly fight-appropriate fleets... don't fight them? Blobs aren't hard to avoid.


Most importantly, though, stop complaining that fighting outnumbered is hard. Would you like off-grid remote reps, ECM, or perhaps even off-grid damage, all in the name of "my enemies have more friends than I do, boo hoo Sad"?


This ideas are not good solutions at all.


"Split their gang so the booster is not on grid."


Your enemy could simply never split up in such a manner.



"Bring your own booster in on grid but super far away. Claymores and T3s aren't slow, y'know?"

So if a few guys want to fly a few frig sized ships, they need to have a friend in a claymore tail them who is always far away?

Being on the same playing field now requires a 400mil investment every fight, plus a ton of training. Bad idea.



"Use proper skirmish tactics with an appropriate ship. Armor cruisers and AFs are not appropriate."

Skirmish tactics don't work well if your enemy goes faster than you and scram/webs farther than you. It is already hard as it is without the blob having more bonuses.



"Somehow find out who their squad commanders are (if they have > 11 people) and blow those up."

I can't read minds.



"If they don't fly fight-appropriate fleets... don't fight them? Blobs aren't hard to avoid."

Something is OP? Just don't fight it. Roll
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#14 - 2013-08-06 14:00:44 UTC
Kahega Amielden wrote:

get yourself a link alt


Kahega Amielden wrote:

try out some solo PVP.


WTF?

Welcome to EVE where solo is a team of two or more.
Diesel47
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#15 - 2013-08-06 14:05:47 UTC
Tyrendian Biohazard wrote:
Sounds like the smaller group should have picked their fights better.



Pfft. There are T3 alts for solo pilots in frigates in every FW system you go.


What makes you think every bigger gang won't be rocking a command ship?

The smaller group should of just stayed docked.
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2013-08-06 14:05:54 UTC
Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:
What? Why can't the small gang have an an on grid booster too?


Because blap.
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#17 - 2013-08-06 14:06:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Mara Rinn
Kahega Amielden wrote:
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
Kahega Amielden wrote:

Maybe before blurfing on the forums about something you clearly know nothing about you should get yourself three link alts, two Falcon alts, three spider tank Guardian alts, and a covops scouting alt and try out some solo PVP.


FYP.


I was working on the assumption you're poor and thus could only qualify for the bare minimum for solo PVP. Obviously, if you're going to take on the blob while solo, it helps to have more ships than they do.


Then there's always solo PvP where you are one person flying one spaceship. As opposed to multiboxing PvP where you are one person flying one spaceship and a hidden support fleet which magically impacts your combat performance without even being involved in the fight.

A basic rule of PvP is that you pick the fights or you lose the fights.
Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings
#18 - 2013-08-06 14:08:09 UTC
Quote:
Then there's always solo PvP where you are one person flying one spaceship.


I don't understand. Are you referring to PVE?
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#19 - 2013-08-06 14:10:33 UTC
Diesel47 wrote:
"Split their gang so the booster is not on grid."

Your enemy could simply never split up in such a manner.

My enemy is too competent, poor me. Cry


Diesel47 wrote:
"Bring your own booster in on grid but super far away. Claymores and T3s aren't slow, y'know?"

So if a few guys want to fly a few frig sized ships, they need to have a friend in a claymore tail them who is always far away?

Being on the same playing field now requires a 400mil investment every fight, plus a ton of training. Bad idea.

I want to be "on the same playing field" with opponents who have more people behind their keyboards, and invest more into their ships/gang comp. Poor me. Cry



Diesel47 wrote:
"Use proper skirmish tactics with an appropriate ship. Armor cruisers and AFs are not appropriate."

Skirmish tactics don't work well if your enemy goes faster than you and scram/webs farther than you. It is already hard as it is without the blob having more bonuses.

... I can't even mock this. If your un-boosted skirmish ship is being caught by ships that are vulnerable to skirmishing (boosted or not), you're bad and should feel bad. In other words, if your Stabber is being caught by Mallers, you're bad.


Diesel47 wrote:
"If they don't fly fight-appropriate fleets... don't fight them? Blobs aren't hard to avoid."

Something is OP? Just don't fight it. Roll

I HATE HAVING TO PICK FIGHTS! Cry Why can't I have a way to boost myself against everything, so I can fight anything without risking anything?

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)

Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#20 - 2013-08-06 14:10:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Mara Rinn
Kahega Amielden wrote:
Quote:
Then there's always solo PvP where you are one person flying one spaceship.


I don't understand. Are you referring to PVE?


You should try PvP in lowsec, flying frigates sometime. Just for kicks, head into the smaller Faction Warfare sites. You can, in fact, find PvP that involves just your ship and one other ship. Of course you have to be quick and/or tricky about it, since more often than not the other guy will flee the moment something more dangerous than an NPC appears on D-scan.

After all, for all he knows your imicus is boosted by off-grid skirmish and armoured warfare boosters, so your imicus is more like a vexor.

OGB is stifling solo and small gang PvP. It needs to be removed from the game.
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