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Vargur Meh
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Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#21 - 2013-08-06 04:45:00 UTC
It isn't a terrible ship, but I'll admit I almost never fly mine

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
hellcane
Never Back Down
#22 - 2013-08-06 09:54:11 UTC
Fit right, the vargur is >= the mach, IMO, but with the numerous fail fits out there it gets a bad rep(see the dcu/rcu fit).
Whitehound
#23 - 2013-08-06 10:07:44 UTC
hellcane wrote:
Fit right, the vargur is >= the mach, IMO, but with the numerous fail fits out there it gets a bad rep(see the dcu/rcu fit).

Post a fitting and stop mouthing off.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
Tobias Hareka
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#24 - 2013-08-06 10:22:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Tobias Hareka
Mina Sebiestar wrote:
Dps is different one have it more before dron3s and even more after because on mach u can use 4 sentry or heavy and still have flight of smalls.

agility is not the same nor does is speed.

And there is difference in being flying brick and must go close to do any dmg and being effective and not having to do so...

also that fir you posred will not have better tracking than any other mini bs using few tracking mods machariel included.


Mach isn't any better when it comes to range. Btw, what's the optimal range on those ACs? If you want range use arties.

And no, Mach doesn't do 1k dps at 70km.
tayjor
HIgh Sec Care Bears
Brothers of Tangra
#25 - 2013-08-06 10:41:03 UTC
I fly both.
The Vargur cheaper. Approx 100mil cheaper. Its cheaper to fit. 4 800mm AC's are cheaper than 8 800mm AC's.
it uses less ammo.
The range is sufficient for 'most' missions.
It tanks better.
And so what its slower. its faster than any other Marauder or BS. Fit an AB and it doesn't matter.
Salvaging while you mission make up for its perceived slowness.

Overall I mission faster when it comes to 'long missions with a lot of loot' than the with the Mach.
Short missions with little loot, or perhaps gates 25-50km away, the Mach is better. Marginally.
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#26 - 2013-08-06 11:17:40 UTC
tayjor wrote:
The range is sufficient for 'most' missions.

a properly fit vargur has better range than a (shield) machariel since the TE nerf.

I should buy an Ishtar.
Bertrand Butler
Cras es Noster
#27 - 2013-08-06 11:25:09 UTC
The Vargur is semi-decent with ACs, its just that all marauders have fallen back in the re-balance process and need some CCP love pronto.

Having said that, here is a somewhat standard L4 loadout for it. It might give you some ideas.

[Vargur, Vargur Guristas PvE]

Tracking Enhancer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer

Pith C-Type Kinetic Deflection Field
Pith C-Type Thermic Dissipation Field
Pith B-Type Large Shield Booster
Shield Boost Amplifier II
Tracking Computer II
Republic Fleet 100MN Afterburner

800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma L
Small Tractor Beam II
Small Tractor Beam II
Salvager II

Large Projectile Ambit Extension II
Large Core Defense Capacitor Safeguard II

Hammerhead II x5
Hobgoblin II x5
Ravenclaw2kk
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#28 - 2013-08-06 12:21:57 UTC
[Vargur, LVL4 Runner]
Domination Gyrostabilizer
Domination Gyrostabilizer
Domination Gyrostabilizer
Domination Tracking Enhancer
Domination Tracking Enhancer

Caldari Navy Shield Boost Amplifier
Caldari Navy Shield Boost Amplifier
Gist X-Type Large Shield Booster
Kinetic Deflection Field II
Caldari Navy Kinetic Deflection Field
Caldari Navy Thermic Dissipation Field

800mm Repeating Artillery II, Hail L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Hail L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Hail L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Hail L
Drone Link Augmentor I
Small Tractor Beam I
Salvager I

Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I


Hammerhead II x5

This fit works pretty well for me and can tank full aggro on any mission.
Xequecal
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#29 - 2013-08-06 13:04:12 UTC
I've said it before and I'll say it again, don't use Gist X shield boosters. You're going to get suicide ganked, it's only a matter of when.
Bertrand Butler
Cras es Noster
#30 - 2013-08-06 13:27:37 UTC
Ravenclaw2kk, I think that a prop mod is pretty much essential for Marauders, due to their hybrid missioning DPS/salvaging aspect.
Aeril Malkyre
Knights of the Ouroboros
#31 - 2013-08-06 15:54:02 UTC
Whitehound wrote:
[Vargur, PvE MWD + ACs + Vampires]
All respect Whitehound, I generally find your posts reliable. But that fit is terrifying. Below is the exact fit I fly in Level 4's. Two TE's still allows me to kill a frigate reliably down to 15km. Standard ammo lets me hit out to 54km. AB gets me into heavy pounding range if I need it, but I usually don't. It also jets me into optimal for the tractors. Your large booster may be able to run all day once those vamps are up, but it won't rep 4 Saints worth of incoming fast enough (like in the Recon 1 of 3 I ran last night). Even my RF X-L has trouble keeping up sometimes. Cap dries up in 2 minutes, but by then I've repped 27K shield HP on the raw 15K she has. Burst tanking saves the day.

[Vargur, Bloodsail]

Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II

Republic Fleet 100MN Afterburner
Shield Boost Amplifier II
Republic Fleet X-Large Shield Booster
[Mission Specific Hardener]
[Mission Specific Hardener]
Large Shield Extender II

800mm Repeating Artillery II, Fusion L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Fusion L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Fusion L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Fusion L
Small Tractor Beam I
Small Tractor Beam I
Small Tractor Beam I

Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Core Defense Field Extender I

Valkyrie II x5
Salvage Drone I x5
Darth Khasei
Wavestar Business Ventures Inc.
#32 - 2013-08-06 16:57:11 UTC
Respect. Cool


Feels bad for posting in a stealth nerf the most expensive pirate faction ships thread.

Especially since this appears to be based on the terrible mess the devs have made with all the Mauraders in the first place.

Thankfully the only thing I have seen about the issue from the "devs" was that Mauraders were in fact getting a full once over. I have yet to see one "dev" post about "any" nerfs to "any" of the Billion plus high end double skill required pirate faction ships.

Stealth nerf calls lack credibility in every case.
Zor'katar
Matari Recreation
#33 - 2013-08-06 18:04:39 UTC
Bertrand Butler wrote:
Ravenclaw2kk, I think that a prop mod is pretty much essential for Marauders, due to their hybrid missioning DPS/salvaging aspect.

Proper management of aggro means you can pop things in a pretty constant stream as they get under the 48k range of the T2 tractors. The introduction of salvage drones was a beautiful, beautiful thing for Marauders.
Whitehound
#34 - 2013-08-06 18:06:38 UTC
Aeril Malkyre wrote:
Whitehound wrote:
[Vargur, PvE MWD + ACs + Vampires]
All respect Whitehound, I generally find your posts reliable. But that fit is terrifying. ...
[Vargur, Bloodsail]
...

I am not surprised. It is fast, aggressive, challenging, rewarding and most of all fun. It is not for people who are only looking for a cookie cutter they can fly on a Sunday afternoon. It is a fitting for those who had enough with the slow-boating and want to try something new and did not train for a Marauder just to do the same thing over and over again.

I have taken a look at your fitting and I can see why you are getting into trouble with it. Firstly, the X-Large Shield Booster regenerates shields fast, but as you have noticed will it run out of cap fast, too, and has to be pulsed. It makes for a great "panic button", but is not more effective than a Large Shield Booster. Both provide the same sustained amount while the XL needs more powergrid and cap. It may feel nice and save, because it is bigger, but it also falls apart quickly.

Secondly and more importantly, the Large Shield Extender only gives you more eHP, but does little for your shield booster. When you fit an Adaptive Invulnerability Shield instead will you get the same eHP as you get with the LSE, but the shield booster becomes more effective, too, because of the higher shield resistances. In addition can you drop the Core Defense Field Extender rig for a second CCC to let your shield booster run longer or to pulse it more frequently. It will result in a 36% higher, sustained boost rate, which is more worth than 15% more shields when your tank is under pressure.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
Domer Pyle
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#35 - 2013-08-06 19:23:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Domer Pyle
Aeril Malkyre wrote:
Is probably not going to get hit with the nerf bat like the Mach.


wait, what? i thought they were only gonna nerf the TEs. nerfing the mach any more would kill it, tbh.

"Imagine if the bars to your prison were all you had ever known. Then one day, someone appears and unlocks the door. If they have the power to do this, then are they really the liberator? You never remembered who it was that closed you in." - Ior Labron
Aeril Malkyre
Knights of the Ouroboros
#36 - 2013-08-06 20:11:10 UTC
Whitehound wrote:
Aeril Malkyre wrote:
Whitehound wrote:
[Vargur, PvE MWD + ACs + Vampires]
All respect Whitehound, I generally find your posts reliable. But that fit is terrifying. ...
[Vargur, Bloodsail]
...
I have taken a look at your fitting and I can see why you are getting into trouble with it. Firstly, the X-Large Shield Booster regenerates shields fast, but as you have noticed will it run out of cap fast, too, and has to be pulsed. It makes for a great "panic button", but is not more effective than a Large Shield Booster. Both provide the same sustained amount while the XL needs more powergrid and cap. It may feel nice and save, because it is bigger, but it also falls apart quickly.

Secondly and more importantly, the Large Shield Extender only gives you more eHP, but does little for your shield booster. When you fit an Adaptive Invulnerability Shield instead will you get the same eHP as you get with the LSE, but the shield booster becomes more effective, too, because of the higher shield resistances. In addition can you drop the Core Defense Field Extender rig for a second CCC to let your shield booster run longer or to pulse it more frequently. It will result in a 36% higher, sustained boost rate, which is more worth than 15% more shields when your tank is under pressure.
I've got the resources to test this out, so I may take your challenge. I've been pulsing so long, I'm still not confident in a sustained boost. But I'm willing to be wrong Big smile
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