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[Odyssey 1.1] Jump Clone skills *Updated with Advanced Infomorph Psychology*

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Keif Kroker
Project Darkness.
Society of Extra Extraordinary Gentlemen
#221 - 2013-08-06 03:55:28 UTC
1 hour doesn't go far enough, especially for new players who might get this to IV. There really doesn't need to be a giant cool-down, it just gets in the way of playing the game. If you let people switch more often it opens up more possibilities for pvp, swapping implants quicker.

How about we get a skill to let you have more then 1 jumpclone in the same station per level.
Blueprint Seller
Bring Me Sunshine
#222 - 2013-08-06 04:32:42 UTC
Excellent!
Thorvik
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#223 - 2013-08-06 05:06:51 UTC
meh
JEFFRAIDER
THIGH GUYS
#224 - 2013-08-06 05:14:48 UTC
This is a great idea and implimentation. It keeps the quality of life change without totally pwning the need to consider which clones you want to use and when.
Bam Stroker
The Graduates
The Initiative.
#225 - 2013-08-06 05:17:58 UTC
I'd prefer 1.5 hours per level, but I think this is still a big improvement.

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Milena Eliskova
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#226 - 2013-08-06 05:22:53 UTC
Overall, not a bad idea.

CCP, please remember the learning skills and how useless they were.

Change the jump timer to 19 hours and be done with it if you plan on making this change.
Eugene Kerner
TunDraGon
Goonswarm Federation
#227 - 2013-08-06 06:07:04 UTC
Why would anybody want to clone jump out of a cosy slave set?

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BarryBonez
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#228 - 2013-08-06 06:22:28 UTC
5 whole hours less? It's exciting gameplay fixes like this that get me excited... about Star Citizen! Eve is soooo stagnant.
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#229 - 2013-08-06 06:23:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
Guy Von Shmuck
Dark-Rising
Wrecking Machine.
#230 - 2013-08-06 06:29:22 UTC
If this according to you is a good improvement then don't bother at all, keeping it at 24 hours is pretty much the exact same thing.

You should have read the CSM 99 reasonable things instead, at least those clone jump suggestions were good enough but still not overpowered.
Artirei
Boere Recon 2
#231 - 2013-08-06 06:33:52 UTC
Hmm well I guess 19 hours is better than 24 hours but in all honesty it won't make that big a difference IMO, maybe 12 hours, But U guess then you also open a can of worms.

I agree with some of the other posts here, rather then just allow to change clones in stations.
Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#232 - 2013-08-06 06:44:27 UTC
I am looking forward to the day when you realize power projection in this game needs a total revamp. Sadly, I know today is not that day.
Gospadin
Bastard Children of Poinen
#233 - 2013-08-06 06:58:59 UTC
To me, jump clone timer reduction via skills is just like the old learning skills. They're meta, not actual game-play enhancing skills.

As such, the skill is a bad idea.

Just make the timer 18 hours instead of 24 for all JCs and move on.
Rena Senn
Halal Gunnery
#234 - 2013-08-06 07:01:10 UTC
Don't get me wrong, I appreciate the reduction, but why not just set it to 20 hours base and leave it at that? It's not like most people are running out of things to train at this point. Just because a problem can be solved by a new skill doesn't mean that's always going to be the most elegant solution.
Gospadin
Bastard Children of Poinen
#235 - 2013-08-06 07:04:49 UTC
Keif Kroker wrote:
How about we get a skill to let you have more then 1 jumpclone in the same station per level.


Good idea, and another example of something that shouldn't be a skill.
Sante Ixnay
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#236 - 2013-08-06 07:05:49 UTC
I'm basically pleased about this, but still...

CCP Rise, translated to bullet points, wrote:



  • don't want to accelerate the rate that you can jump significantly

  • want to make sure that switching once a day is actually possible.

  • very easy to do

  • very positive affect on player experience




...add me to the list of people who think all these goals would be -even- better accomplished by just shortening the jump clone timer, and calling it (somewhat less than) a day. Shoot, do both if you just can't shake that itch to add another skill. Smile

Anyway, whatever you do, thanks for addressing this longstanding issue.
Neryman Tulocky
AREA 43
#237 - 2013-08-06 07:05:50 UTC
Even though I'd favor a more significant reduction, it makes sense to me having 19 Hours @ Level 5. It will be a big help already.

Atm, I cannot jump to a new clone every evening, when I start playing, if I hadn't done it at the very beginning of my "play-time" the evening before.

With this skill, jumping at anytime on one evening allows me to jump again already at the start of the next evening, which isn't possible right now.

Btw. I liked the proposal from the 99 reasonable things voting ... to set the jumpclone-cooldown in relation to the jumped distance.
Zheketri
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#238 - 2013-08-06 07:07:08 UTC
That's about all I've ever been to inclined to ask for on this.
Have to say about time, though.

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Bubanni
Corus Aerospace
#239 - 2013-08-06 07:17:00 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
Glad that generally this is something people want. I'm not surprised there's different opinions on exactly how much this timer should be reduced, but for now we will stick with this time range and we can see how it fits.

As far as tying it to a skill, there's good arguments for and against. I'll have a chat with some other designers and make sure we're all on the same page before shipping it.

As usual, thanks for the input.


I am in the group who believes more skills is good for eve.

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Adam Lyon
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#240 - 2013-08-06 07:33:45 UTC
So'Cari wrote:
-1 for the same reason offered by many others:

If you recognise that a 24-hour timer is bad game design, you should implement a direct fix rather than adding a skill which makes the flaw default with an optional fix available for a minor in-game cost. [That the relative cost is highest to newer players just compounds the problem.]

Just set the timer to 19-hours (or whatever) and go from there.

  • Simpler to implement
  • Simpler to adjust and/or remove based on feedback
  • No more costly (as a proportion of SP) for newer players

And if after a short trial you still want to go back to 24-hour default with skill-based reduction, then you can, and nobody will complain about wasted training time or clamor for SP reimbursement.

You could even set it to 21 or 22-hours (i.e. something a little more conservative) RIGHT NOW as an experiment until Odyssey 1.1, and then make a final adjustment or add in the skill-based version when 1.1 launches.



I'm sorry for not having read the entire threadnaught (nice word) but I thought I might join the conversation. As a preliminary disclaimer, I do not function in nullsec to any appreciable degree, but I have read the concerns you nullseccers seem to have. I also thought what So'Cari said was very well thought out so it bore repeating.

Jumpclones serve two primary purposes, implant swaps and travel. It seems it would be beneficial to all involved if implant swaps were not delayed at all. I personally see no reason to extend the time delay between implant swaps. If instant travel is as bad as my nullsec pilots say it is, why not just separate the two functions as best you can? Make in-station clone swaps no/low delay and keep trans-station swaps at the 24 hour (or 22/23 or 19 hour) standard if you choose to update it to that. If you just have to have new skills, make in-station clone swaps a trainable for -4 hours per level (or -20%) and keep the currently proposed skill for trans-station jumps.

I can personally attest (as probably almost everyone in this thread can) that implant jump timers are just a barrier to enjoying the game. I don't want to have to be locked into my clone for 12 hours because of a decision I made yesterday. It just makes no sense for anyone. Gameplay barriers like new "required" skills and ridiculous timers (that serve no purpose from my personal perspective) hurt everyone. Players play less and CCP gets less money. Just fix it. It's not that complicated.