These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

[Odyssey 1.1] Jump Clone skills *Updated with Advanced Infomorph Psychology*

First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Joshua Lonestar
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#181 - 2013-08-05 23:11:56 UTC
Edenmain wrote:

Can't we have something which allows us to change clones inside a wormhole, so we can swap implants. I don't want to be able to jump into wormholes from anywhere, just swap clones in some kind of corporation clone vat anchored at a POS or a specialised kind of POS in it's own right (which could be attacked destroyed along with clones).


How about we work on fixing SMA drops before we start adding happy fun time toys to a POS?
Maximus Andendare
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#182 - 2013-08-05 23:12:20 UTC
Sentamon wrote:
Don't get it.

People are already complaining that 19 is too long. A week after the change 24 will be forgotten and 19 will be the new 24.

What people want is instant teleports like other games have so the EVE universe is even more of a box then a vast universe.

In other games, where instances limit the players that can enter, and PvP is locked into battlegrounds, I guess this works, but in EVE where there are no limits and you can dogpile on everything, the direction of this change is unfortunate.
Eve Universe is already a box. Jump bridges, Titan bridges, wormholes, oh my!

"With TiDi, no fight is too far away (to bring the supercap fleet to bear)" --Shadoo

This change represents a quality-of-life change that should not be tied to a skill. If there is to be a skill, then make it provide meaningful changes, so there's a compelling reason to train it. Besides, a lower JC timer (let's say in the absolute sense) just provides for more opportunities for good fights. And that's never a bad thing.

Enter grid and you're already dead, destined to be reborn and fight another day.

>> Play Eve Online FREE! Join today for exclusive bonuses! <<

Ambrose Oni
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#183 - 2013-08-05 23:14:09 UTC
I think this is great.

Making it too short (via training) gives further advantages to the rich and the old by giving the option to be in the perfect clone too often.

I agree with those saying 1.5 hours/lvl though, especially since you can't assume everyone will have it at V just for this kind of fix.

+1 regardless, just enough fix to jump at the start or end of a play session.
Doddy
Excidium.
#184 - 2013-08-05 23:14:46 UTC
Seems just fine to me, the problem has always been that you can't switch to play at the same time the next day so will satisfy most peoples problems.
Manfred Hideous
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#185 - 2013-08-05 23:15:37 UTC
Maximus Andendare wrote:
Sentamon wrote:
Don't get it.

People are already complaining that 19 is too long. A week after the change 24 will be forgotten and 19 will be the new 24.

What people want is instant teleports like other games have so the EVE universe is even more of a box then a vast universe.

In other games, where instances limit the players that can enter, and PvP is locked into battlegrounds, I guess this works, but in EVE where there are no limits and you can dogpile on everything, the direction of this change is unfortunate.
Eve Universe is already a box. Jump bridges, Titan bridges, wormholes, oh my!

"With TiDi, no fight is too far away (to bring the supercap fleet to bear)" --Shadoo

This change represents a quality-of-life change that should not be tied to a skill. If there is to be a skill, then make it provide meaningful changes, so there's a compelling reason to train it. Besides, a lower JC timer (let's say in the absolute sense) just provides for more opportunities for good fights. And that's never a bad thing.



Exactly right.
Heribeck Weathers
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#186 - 2013-08-05 23:18:07 UTC
Good stuff, dotn change a thing
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#187 - 2013-08-05 23:22:14 UTC
Kitty Bear wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Kitty Bear wrote:
From the all the complaining I can only surmise that people do not want this skill & feature implementing.
I guess they are content with a continuation of the system currently in place.

No. People just want them to fix the problem by… you know… addressing the problem, rather than adding in a pointless one-day skill-training timesink as a half-assed band-aid to the problem.

In your opinion.

No, in theirs, as you can see by… you know… reading their comments.
Tracer Tzestu
Doomheim
#188 - 2013-08-05 23:23:23 UTC
+1

I have been hoping to see this skill for a long while, I am extremely happy that it is being implemented.
Markku Laaksonen
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#189 - 2013-08-05 23:38:31 UTC
Rise already said this in his OP, but here's an example to put it another way.

My play time is between 12 and 4 eve time. I JC for activity X at 12. The earliest I can JC for activity Y is at 12 the next day. Realistically I'm going to be a little bit after that. Eventually my JC timer gets pushed past my 4 o'clock play time, and I can't do activity Z simply because of the JC timer.

It's a game. Should I not be able to do what I want to in this sandbox game simply because of a timer which intends for me to JC once per day, but in practice will end up stopping me from doing what I want for a day?

Rather than adding a skill, however, change the JC timer to 23 hours. Everyone could JC once a day within their play time without using training time for the skill. It would also avoids hassle if you revamp the JC system in the future as there would be less to worry about maintaining.

DUST 514 Recruit Code - https://dust514.com/recruit/zluCyb/

EVE Buddy Invite - https://secure.eveonline.com/trial/?invc=047203f1-4124-42a1-b36f-39ca8ae5d6e2&action=buddy
Markku Laaksonen
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#190 - 2013-08-05 23:40:26 UTC
I should add as a side thought to some of the comments.

JCs are less about safe instantaneous travel and more about having different clones for different roles. That's how they are for me, and I would feel safe saying that's how they are for a vast majority of players.

DUST 514 Recruit Code - https://dust514.com/recruit/zluCyb/

EVE Buddy Invite - https://secure.eveonline.com/trial/?invc=047203f1-4124-42a1-b36f-39ca8ae5d6e2&action=buddy
Jumpshot244
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#191 - 2013-08-05 23:45:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Jumpshot244
Change is weak sauce.

Should be a 10% reduction per level.
CCP Rise
C C P
C C P Alliance
#192 - 2013-08-05 23:46:24 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Rise
Glad that generally this is something people want. I'm not surprised there's different opinions on exactly how much this timer should be reduced, but for now we will stick with this time range and we can see how it fits.

As far as tying it to a skill, there's good arguments for and against. I'll have a chat with some other designers and make sure we're all on the same page before shipping it.

As usual, thanks for the input.

@ccp_rise
Elian Troller
24th Imperial Crusade
Amarr Empire
#193 - 2013-08-05 23:54:39 UTC
Making a QoL skill that fixes a game flaw?
Ridiculous.
DeadRow
Blue Canary
Watch This
#194 - 2013-08-05 23:56:57 UTC
And what are the good arguments for it again?
Caleb Seremshur
Commando Guri
Guristas Pirates
#195 - 2013-08-05 23:59:34 UTC
Legion40k wrote:
19hrs.. alright, it helps! 12hrs would be godly <3


you guys really don't get it do you? at 24 hrs per jump you are gradually pushed further and further back through your timezone because you cant jump at the same time as the day before. either you skip a day and dont jump or you jump every day and lose some time each jump. at 19 hours this changes and you can jump at the start of every day OR if you're in for a weekend session you will be able to jump in to a combat clone for the weekend and switch a couple of times before jumping back by Monday having lost no time other than what you allow.
Allus Nova
#196 - 2013-08-05 23:59:52 UTC
Sephira Galamore wrote:
Why?

In more words...
Why buff safe instantaneous travel?
If this change is supposed to help with implants, allow clone switching in stations.
I hope you give this some more thought :S



I have to agree here, allow us to swap clones locally, this would make it so I would be SO much more likely that I would participate in PvP if I wasn't risking my crystal PvE set.

I understand the reasoning why they want to introduce the time for jumping in an attempt to guarantee that someone can jump once a day and I don't disagree with their motivation behind that, but local clone switching would do WAAAY more to fix this.
Bakuhz
NED-Clan
Goonswarm Federation
#197 - 2013-08-06 00:09:16 UTC
5 hours at lvl 5

how much time will that take us to train without augmentations?
and how much is the book going to cost us?

and i say make it 2 hours per lvl 5 hours is just not going to cut it!!!

https://zkillboard.com/character/584042527/
Sven Viko VIkolander
In space we are briefly free
#198 - 2013-08-06 00:33:16 UTC
Caleb Seremshur wrote:
Legion40k wrote:
19hrs.. alright, it helps! 12hrs would be godly <3


you guys really don't get it do you? at 24 hrs per jump you are gradually pushed further and further back through your timezone because you cant jump at the same time as the day before. either you skip a day and dont jump or you jump every day and lose some time each jump. at 19 hours this changes and you can jump at the start of every day OR if you're in for a weekend session you will be able to jump in to a combat clone for the weekend and switch a couple of times before jumping back by Monday having lost no time other than what you allow.


QFT, I think people are thinking about the 19hr timer in the wrong way. Though something more like 1.5 hours on a high rank skill would be better, IMO, since most people will only train it to level 3-4 unless they really need the extra time.

I am in favor of having it tied to a skill, for the reason that taking it to level 5 is a strategic choice for having a shorter timer for those that need it, as opposed to giving everyone a flat buff.

People don't seem to realize that power creep ruins games. The people that complain about imbalances are often the same people that whined to get those buffs earlier. This is the law of shortsightedness that plagues MMOs.
Messoroz
AQUILA INC
Verge of Collapse
#199 - 2013-08-06 00:36:41 UTC
So you reduce the time to 19 hours but its effectively useless you stay awake drinking Red Bull.

Seriously, why? There's no different to waiting 24 hours besides not having a stroke from the caffeine.
Darirol
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#200 - 2013-08-06 00:38:03 UTC
the biggest problem in eve atm is force projection in all forms, including instant travel like pod express and clone jump.

i cant see how shorten the timer for clone jumping helps to reduce this problem.

eve is allready way too small. not because we dont have enough systems, its because you can move everywhere within minutes. personaly iam against everything that speeds up travel even more.