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Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#21 - 2013-08-05 12:21:51 UTC
PS Hollywood asures me that hundreds of people have died as a result of people taking the game into real life, yet the rules of Poker are pretty much the same as they were in Doc Holliday's day.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#22 - 2013-08-05 13:34:25 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Well, the game is built upon the conception that you can fu** others without consequences .


I beg your pardon but that's the opposite of the truth.

Oh wait, you mean that CCP won't impose consequences for you?

Well that's still not true.


You're just scratching the surface of words. The whole game is built on the premise that, by design, certain behavior will not have consequences.

In my terms, a "consequence" is a "meaningful consequence", and "meaningful" means "something that alters your behavior".

FAI, autopiloting through lowsec haves a consequence -you stop doing it once you lose your first ship. But, by design, destroying the guy who autopilots in lowsec does not have a consequence, otherwise nobody woud do it and by design the game is about doing that kind of thing.

It gets even better when trust is involved. EVE does not provide any way to pay back the one who betrayed your trust -obviously you can't betray his trust nor punish him in any way once he is safely concealed behind a design decission to keep alts anonymous and untraceable. He can keep playing the game with no consequences for his action, by design decission.

That decission is made on the assumption that nobody will ever take consequences out of the game and into RL, despite trust, by its own nature, is a RL concept and not an ingame one.

And that assumpion is gonna be proven wrong sooner or later, the more people play and the longer they play. It may be a case of awoxing, or a corp theft, or a scam, or whatever of the countless mechanics that stem from the design decission that certain uncivil behavior must not have consequences because it is "fun". Someone will take his/her RL feelings to RL and consequences will reach RL. And then, that will be "fun" to see. Straight


Yes of course it is. You can't seriously be advocating that CCP design the game around psychotics, surely?


Nice necro... so necro that Indah is unsubbed already, but doesn't matters, I'll gladly clarify this point to you.

Using your words, I don't mean that CCP designed the game around "psychotics". I just point that CCP has designed the game in a way which will cause trouble with "psychotics", and that is unnecessary IMHO.

The guy who just got scammed of 105 billion by Barracuda II should be allowed to make B II pay for his crime ingame, in a way which causes B II the same distress that guy has experienced. An eye for an eye. Otherwise, sooner or later someone will know who hit him in game and will hit him back in RL, and whatever happens then it will be CCP's fault... in my eyes, that is.

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#23 - 2013-08-05 14:21:33 UTC
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:

The guy who just got scammed of 105 billion by Barracuda II should be allowed to make B II pay for his crime ingame, in a way which causes B II the same distress that guy has experienced. An eye for an eye. Otherwise, sooner or later someone will know who hit him in game and will hit him back in RL, and whatever happens then it will be CCP's fault... in my eyes, that is.


but... by definition, he can. He's not gauranteed success, any more than Barracuda II was gauranteed success in the first place, but he can try to 'win' in exactly the same way. What CCP does gaurantee is that he'll be allowed to try to make Barracuda pay.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#24 - 2013-08-05 22:29:59 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:

The guy who just got scammed of 105 billion by Barracuda II should be allowed to make B II pay for his crime ingame, in a way which causes B II the same distress that guy has experienced. An eye for an eye. Otherwise, sooner or later someone will know who hit him in game and will hit him back in RL, and whatever happens then it will be CCP's fault... in my eyes, that is.


but... by definition, he can. He's not gauranteed success, any more than Barracuda II was gauranteed success in the first place, but he can try to 'win' in exactly the same way. What CCP does gaurantee is that he'll be allowed to try to make Barracuda pay.


Barracuda isn't real. The person bhind is safe as he can create another alt and profit from his crime, and the victim will never know who to make pay. The real Barracuda won't be getting not even a bad name. He's effectively impune by dessign (unless he's stupid, but that would be another question).

The worst that can happen is that CCP didn't like his Evepedia tricks...

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld
#25 - 2013-08-06 22:49:22 UTC
The op should understand that if you enter lowsec you are agreeing to pvp whether its consensual or not, likewise if you join or form a Corp are are agreeing to war decs whether they are consensual or not.

It's the job of other players to provide you with the risk you need to make the game challenging.

Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction...
Maximillion Cocksnap
The Corporate Card...
#26 - 2013-08-08 14:20:47 UTC
The other thing to bear in mind is there is a whole metagame to take advantage of to avoid this situation. CCP wont intervene on too many "griefing" type scenarios because they expect the player to take appropriate action themselves - EVE thrives on conflict - you can fight back, you can dock up and hide, you can enlist help, you can even try and find people connected high up and see how they can help, maybe even get on a merc corp protection list...

The key thing is its up to you - the game is a fairly unforgiving place, part and parcel of living in new eden is finding ways to front up to the bits you dont like and reducing their impact on you...
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#27 - 2013-08-09 07:00:53 UTC
Maximillion Cocksnap wrote:
The other thing to bear in mind is there is a whole metagame to take advantage of to avoid this situation. CCP wont intervene on too many "griefing" type scenarios because they expect the player to take appropriate action themselves - EVE thrives on conflict - you can fight back, you can dock up and hide, you can enlist help, you can even try and find people connected high up and see how they can help, maybe even get on a merc corp protection list...

The key thing is its up to you - the game is a fairly unforgiving place, part and parcel of living in new eden is finding ways to front up to the bits you dont like and reducing their impact on you...


I disagree. EVE is totally based on the assimetry and lack of consequences.

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you
Oliver Stoned
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#28 - 2013-08-16 04:13:25 UTC
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Maximillion Cocksnap wrote:
The other thing to bear in mind is there is a whole metagame to take advantage of to avoid this situation. CCP wont intervene on too many "griefing" type scenarios because they expect the player to take appropriate action themselves - EVE thrives on conflict - you can fight back, you can dock up and hide, you can enlist help, you can even try and find people connected high up and see how they can help, maybe even get on a merc corp protection list...

The key thing is its up to you - the game is a fairly unforgiving place, part and parcel of living in new eden is finding ways to front up to the bits you dont like and reducing their impact on you...


I disagree. EVE is totally based on the assimetry and lack of consequences.

I agree with you.

There are no consequences for play styles. It is a virtual bully game.
With that in mind, one would think that in the "civilized" section of Empire space there would be repercussions with civil authority.
There's no reason to prevent a pilot from warping to a belt or sitting outside a station and attacking a pilot, grab loot and dock up for a time period.
Rinse and repeat.

What should the consequences for repeated actions in a "Civilized" area be?
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#29 - 2013-08-16 21:05:18 UTC
How do you just keep on not getting that it's your job to provide the consequences.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Oliver Stoned
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#30 - 2013-08-17 02:30:18 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
How do you just keep on not getting that it's your job to provide the consequences.

Not in a civilized area. That's why you pay taxes for services.

So you are a vigilante now?
Have you been watching the Kick Asz movie again?
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#31 - 2013-08-17 08:53:30 UTC
Oliver Stoned wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
How do you just keep on not getting that it's your job to provide the consequences.

Not in a civilized area. That's why you pay taxes for services.

So you are a vigilante now?
Have you been watching the Kick Asz movie again?


EVE isn't western surburbia, hope that helped.

If you want to argue from reality, then you'd better be prepared to accept the whole bundle. We'll start with the government taking 40% of everything you make and go from there.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#32 - 2013-08-17 10:05:52 UTC
I mean look, there's going to be a mandatory 3 day waiting list for civilian weapons, never mind a Light Electron Blaster I turret.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Oliver Stoned
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#33 - 2013-08-17 14:32:01 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Oliver Stoned wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
How do you just keep on not getting that it's your job to provide the consequences.

Not in a civilized area. That's why you pay taxes for services.

So you are a vigilante now?
Have you been watching the Kick Asz movie again?


EVE isn't western surburbia, hope that helped.

If you want to argue from reality, then you'd better be prepared to accept the whole bundle. We'll start with the government taking 40% of everything you make and go from there.


I just see a evolution of systems.

The 5 empires evolved and formed governments.
Those 5 governments did form Concord.
Concord also formed
•DED --Directive Enforcement Department
•Inner Circle -- Top level of Concord
•Secure Commerce Commission -- ensure a safe and universally regulated trade environment.


Wouldn't you agree that systems evolve?
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#34 - 2013-08-17 17:14:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
Malcanis wrote:
How do you just keep on not getting that it's your job to provide the consequences.


Well, you're right. If I am victimized in EVE, it is my job to find out the identity of my agressor and provide him the consequences, close and personal.

Sure that will make some headlines.

What I can't count on is finding his identity in game and mess with his main. That would be game-breaking as per design rules. Also that's why there are no headlines about people who actually managed to avenge a scam, an awox, a corp theft, et cetera. They never know who shall pay for it, as per design rules.

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you
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