EVE General Discussion

I find the OP uses some very specific language. And, I see some of the more vocal responses seem to brush over this as though one way of saying something is no different than another.

Firstly, Ms. Repose said nothing about wanting or not wanting to explore or engage in that aspect of the game. She says it's a "sucker's bet." Her premise is "the smart thing to do, given the circumstances that exist." I can take from that that she's not closed to the idea of low/null sec. I also notice she's in a faction corporation and has been all the time.

What I sense is the likely vs. unlikely outcomes in venturing a risk. Another post said to get into these areas one must be in a good corp, or have a group of good friends sure to be on at the same time. A lot of argument was launched against that...as is here in Ms. Repose's post, however they all had advice which included "you and a few other people."

What seems to be missing is a method for hi sec people, where everyone starts, to bridge that gap into these other areas. It's not like they don't want to do it. It's more like - the way things are it would be foolish to try, unless you have a lot of money to throw at a trial and error process. But, at the same time it's said you don't make much money in hi sec (comparatively speaking) so it's unlikely people in her position HAVE the money to toss at a venture such as this.

To infer there are not parasitic, and victimizing people just waiting for someone like Serene to set foot in these areas so they can jump on her, and ransom her for all she's worth, then pop her and loot her ship is ridiculous on the face of it. And, so the finality with which she speaks is more than just the opinion of one person.

This then gives rise to suspicion. If someone really knows the game, then they would know the position she (and a whole lot of other players) are in with regard to this. Ignoring the facts of the situation and egging her on, or insulting her for not doing it can only be read as baiting for another victim - ipso facto.

An additional problem is not knowing what's out there and how to go about doing things out there. In this case ignorance can't be bliss. Not many people can say they weren't helped along in some way to make such a move. Maybe it was some friends. Maybe it was a corp that turned to be friends. However it was, it's a big leap to go into null sec with the intent of establishing oneself alone and on a meager, short-time player's bankroll.

People who want to truly see those regions developed will either take these things into consideration and come up with some remedy, insist CCP juggle the conditions by monkeying with game mechanics, will just cry about it in the forum here hoping to goad or shame somebody into doing it, or are just looking for someone to kill and rob for grins.

As Ms. Repose says so well, intelligent people aren't stupid. So...what's the "community" going to do about it besides saying, "Tough luck sucker"? I know only fools take a sucker's bet.

Good post, Ms. Repose. Perhaps the answer can be just as definite.

They have some big draw backs.
POS is relatively easy to pop.
You can't make an outpost.
You need many people to have a hope of defending them
If you have many people sites get depleted, they are all poor and can't afford to defend it.

Only way is with a lot of stress and a static link to another worm hole, then hope that you don't leave anyone in one when you close the link.

Edit:
No reason I know that Outposts should be prohibited. It is not like they can control regions easily.

The major reason(s) I left 0.0 was because of the never ending blob fests, backstabbing politics and all that crap. That and the ever present:

GET IN FLEET YOU MAGGOTS!!!

I liked ratting, plexing and occational small scale PvP... I did have that for a time... many years ago... but then it turned into something else. Nice big fleets with some nice encouragement:

IF YOU ARE NOT IN FLEETS 25/7 AND GET ON AT LEAST 2 BILLION KILLSMAILS/HOUR YOU WILL BE KICKED FROM CORP!!!

Yes, I know I am overdoing it, but the main thing is that we suddenly had to be in fleets constantly and unless we managed to get on X amount of killmails we would be booted for being slackers... and to me that is simply no fun at all. So I left and went into WH space. Suddenly I did get pretty much that which I liked before. Not exactly, but still close enough.

Unfortunatly things havent changed much in 0.0except for the fact that the old BS blobs have turned into supercap blobs and the old super boring POS bashings have changed into even bigger PITA sov structure bashes... It really is horrible to contemplate but I actually prefered the old POS bashings to what is now.

Players aren't moving to null because the game doesn't entice them. It's got nothing to do with attitude.
At the end of the day players will do whatever the game lets them do and that's a good thing. It's up to game design to channel activity in such ways as to lead players in the desired direction.

Don't hate the player, hate the game.

seems like the most possible return....


problem is: some of "high-sec type" people is in 0.0 sov space already( "renters", "citizens", "pets", you name it) . This is because of NAPs, blues and big-lazy alliances. All of it make 0.0 boring (yes) and safer for casual player like me (i really think i'm high-sec style player but i found place in 0.0 for myself).
If you remove this safety i will need to decide if i still want to stay here or time has come. Removing local is the worst idea i have heard yet.

But who cares about me personally?
Well. I think i'm not only one who will move to high-sec if 0.0 will become more danger and empty.
So i suppose your ideas about 0.0 will move more people to high-sec

PvP in EVE? Don't make me laugh... The typical PvP fight in low sec is 4v1 usually against a small frig. Let's not kid ourselves, majority of players are just looking for easy wins rather than a "good fight". This is why suicide ganking and neutral RR and docking games happen. because it's the easy fight. Same reason why high-sec is more popular, because it's easier to do things there, less stress less worry. This is not a revalation and nobody who has played this game for a couple of years is going to shocked by the fact that this game is populated by lazy cowards.

By the way, don't pin your hopes on changing the high-sec mechanics in forcing care-bears to low sec. Not going to happen because they will leave the game is playing safe is no longer worthwhile.

No - they will simply quit. The environment will be too dramatically changed and hostile to them. They will seek what they want elsewhere.


Just in case you are not messing with every one, I do believe they mean it in terms of creating ships, modules and such for players or destroying what they have.



If people agree with your response, then they really are "null-bears". I live in a WH mostly and that is worse that null sec in many ways. With the high class systems, capitals ships can come into your system and all you have is a little POS or two and what ever ships you have.

There is a corp, "Narwhales ate my duck" famous for being a serious worm hole corp, they come in, set up POSes (plural!) then in the minimal amount of time they have cap ships built in there.

Your only option, usually is to detect the first of them and then get as many ships out of there as you can, closing the worm hole to another system behind you. Once they are in, they have scanning ships to keep finding their way in.

However, that is an exception. With some changes, null sec would still be safer, regions could be controlled but it would be possible for small corps and alliance to get a foot hold there independently.

This game is a SANDBOX stop bitching, people can be where ever they want High, Low or 0.0 Sec space.

Forcing people out of HiSec would be counter productive and more likely to force them out of EvE altogether. I see a lot written about Null (I suspect mainly by those who either never left HiSec or dipped a toe into Null and got burned in their first few days) about us only being interested in destruction but thats only half true, in order to maintain an Alliance and it's territory you require more than to cruise round popping reds and neuts.

You need good logistics (which can be a real challenge) and manufacturing, we build as much as we can on site, after all it costs between 150 and 250 ISK/m3 to ship stuff to and from Empire by jump freighter. You also have to have good intel channels which allow Home Defence fleets to defend your space and allow organised ratting and mining fleets to operate or allow you to travel from A to B without jumping blind into a hostile gang or camp. Let's not forget the amount of PI you do to maintain POS's and build SOV structures and the organisation that requires.

As I said there's a lot more to Null than the HiSec preconception that its all flying around killing everything not blue in sight although lets be honest you do that as well, territory must after all be kept secure. Null requires time, attention and a willingness to take some risk even when engaged in activities like ratting and travelling but it is well worth it.

Most of you won't or don't want to believe that and thats your choice but you are missing out on some interesting times. Try it, if you don't like it HiSec is still there.

Brilliant. Hi sec will never be gone, and I bet you felt tough typing that.