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Maelstrom on a budget help. (L4 missions)
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Jayne Hobb
25yrs old man playing genshin impact at 4am
#1 - 2013-08-05 16:33:42 UTC
In the next couple of days, I will be getting a Maelstrom to run level 4's, and I am conflicted on how to fit it. My eventual goal is to get into a Mach once my skills are a bit better, and after the Maelstrom has brought me in the isk I need. But until then, I need a Maelstrom that will do L4s in Caldari space without too many problems. I am sure that Minmatar space would be easier, but I will be in Caldari space, and that is where I have the standings as well.

I can put out about 500mil for the ship and fitting, and still be comfortable with being able to replace it should it pop. So I am going to post a fit below that I was thinking, and hoping that I could get some critique, and hopefully get the performance to cost ratio as good as possible. You can see my skills here: http://eveboard.com/pilot/Jayne_Hobb

(Jita prices, rounded to about the correct amounts)

Maelstrom hull (175mil)

8x 800mm Repeating Artillery II (21mil)

2x mission specific T2 hardeners (3mil)
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II (1mil)
Republic Fleet 100mn Afterburner (40mil)
Pith C-Type X-Large Shield Booster (85mil)
Tracking Computer II (1mil)

2x Tracking Enhancer II (1mil)
2x Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer (120mil)
Gyrostabilizer II (1mil)

2x Large Capacitor Control Circuit I (25mil)
Large Projectile Burst Aerator I (1mil)

Total cost: ~474mil


So... Any advice, tweaks, or whatever? I know that I really should have all three gyrostabs as republic fleet, but the only way I could fit that into the budget would have been to drop the AB down to t2, which kills my cap, or go with a t2 Shield booster, which hurts tank and cap. As the above stands, I am cap stable when the LSB isnt running, which is the way I would like to keep it. It allows me to run the shield booster for a bit, shut it off to regen cap, and then continue.

Thanks in advance for your help!
Aeril Malkyre
Knights of the Ouroboros
#2 - 2013-08-05 18:12:30 UTC
Solid fit. I had an even less expensive fit, and later on I found myself getting bold and dropping the TC for an SBA, aggroing most everyone in the room, just to see what I could handle. Never popped once, and I sold it later to upgrade. It'll serve you well until you can afford the Mach, and then you'll feel like you're slaloming around the targets.

Good hunting.
Shizu Eisenkreuz
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#3 - 2013-08-05 19:12:41 UTC
X-large shield booster will drain your capacitor fast.
Until you are more comfortable with the new missions' layout/triggers I'd replace the tracking computer with a heavy cap booster to keep you out of trouble if you mess something up.

I run L4s with a very similar fit in Minmatar space, with lower skills and no T2 guns.
It's pretty much the same, with shield boost amp and cap booster instead of your tracking computer and invul field.

You kill **** faster with T2 guns, so you probably don't need the cap booster to keep the shield going.
Maybe use it at the beginning, until you get the hang of level 4s.
Jayne Hobb
25yrs old man playing genshin impact at 4am
#4 - 2013-08-05 19:17:47 UTC
Ok, thanks for the tip. Should I be using Barrage, sticking with mission specific, or a mix of both?
Zor'katar
Matari Recreation
#5 - 2013-08-05 23:57:34 UTC
In Caldari space, you'll probably be looking at a lot of Guristas missions. Guristas often like to keep at range, and could be trouble with autocannons. Barrage will help, but you might also want to try playing around with artillery fits.
Klymer
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#6 - 2013-08-06 00:15:23 UTC
eh a turret ship in Guristas space....I'd suggest a MJD artillery fit as they love them some ECM. One bad round of jamming and you could be in trouble.
Jayne Hobb
25yrs old man playing genshin impact at 4am
#7 - 2013-08-06 04:51:36 UTC
I wouldnt be able to use T2 artillery, and due to lack of power grid, I would be forced into using 1200mm. My range wouldnt be 100km even in falloff. Jamming is an annoyance, but the bulk of jammers are smaller ships, which my drones could hopefully handle.
Klymer
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#8 - 2013-08-06 07:09:30 UTC
This fit easily hits to +100km, TC scripts can be swapped out as needed for tracking. Powergrid isn't really the problem, CPU is. You should have weapon upgrades V to avoid having to use multiple cpu rigs to fit it as spec'ed. Or you can use a meta 4/faction shield booster and eliminate the need for a cpu rig.


[Maelstrom, MJD Artillery]

Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II

X-Large Shield Booster II
Kinetic Deflection Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Large Micro Jump Drive

1200mm Heavy 'Scout' Artillery I
1200mm Heavy 'Scout' Artillery I
1200mm Heavy 'Scout' Artillery I
1200mm Heavy 'Scout' Artillery I
1200mm Heavy 'Scout' Artillery I
1200mm Heavy 'Scout' Artillery I
1200mm Heavy 'Scout' Artillery I
1200mm Heavy 'Scout' Artillery I

Large Processor Overclocking Unit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I

Drones to suit
Morrigan LeSante
Perkone
Caldari State
#9 - 2013-08-06 07:24:21 UTC
I've messed with a Mael and the dirty little secret no-one admits is after (skills depending) about....25km, arty does more damage than ACs and this ship is a pig to get that close reliably.

I had two fits, one AC and one arty, but the arty tends to stay on. Grouped into 4 sets of two, it works pretty well.
Marc Callan
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2013-08-06 09:11:43 UTC
The Maelstrom works fine with meta-4 artillery against long-range targets. My latest mission fit used three gyros (one faction) and two TE's in the lows, mix-and-match mid-slots depending on the mission, based on a Dread Guristas XL booster, and a full rack of 1400 "scout" cannons (meta-4) for anything except Angels, mercenaries, or other rats that habitually engage close. I never got around to replacing the CCC rigs I'd put in when I first got the boat, but what I ended up with was a platform that can easily tank well over a thousand DPS in bursts. Granted, by now I've got Minmatar Battleship IV, which significantly increases the shield booster's effectiveness (like a free shield boost amp with no stacking penalties).

1200s work well too, while you're training up things like Advanced Weapon Upgrades and Projectile Rigging to get the 1400s' powergrid demands under control.

Oh, and one thing I sometimes did for Guristas missions where the survival guides warned of heavy ECM: used one slot (that might normally have held a prop mod) and threw in a Ladar ECCM. It doesn't make you completely jam-proof, but I've had situations where a Gurista battleship hit a jam while my 1400s were cycling - but only one, so I was able to get my targeting back, reacquire the lock, and be ready to re-engage, practically before the 1400s were ready to shoot again.

Morrigan's right, though; ships depending on autocannons also depend on speed for range control, and the Maelstrom doesn't have it. I like to say that the Mael tanks like a brick smokehouse and moves like one as well.

"We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be." - Kurt Vonnegurt
Jayne Hobb
25yrs old man playing genshin impact at 4am
#11 - 2013-08-06 14:44:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Jayne Hobb
I know that it is a question of tank over gank, but is it actually worth going for four Gyros, and then putting in a tracking computer in place of a tracking enhancer? It means giving up a hardener, which isnt too bad on damage specific missions (as it leaves two mission specific) but it makes omni tanking incredibly difficult.

I went through a fit with 1400mm, and with the Burst Aerator, the power grid needs are just too much. I could go with 1200mm, and I wouldnt need a CPU rig. (I have the two Genolution implants, as well as a +3% CPU implant in slot 6) I was just thinking that the Barrage ammo might make the falloff long enough out that it would be ok with ACs, but I happen to love artillery (been using it on my Hurricane) so I have no complaints with sticking to arty. I just see everyone raving about autocannons, and figured they might be something to try out.

After mixing things around a bit, I saw that the Burst Aerator was giving me 8 DPS due to diminishing returns, so I pulled it off, giving me a ton more powergrid, and put in an ionic field projector for range. (80 something kilometers isnt going to cut it if I am going to use MJD and arty) Can I get some critique on this fit, then:

Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Gyrostabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II

Tracking Computer II
Pith C-Type X-Large Shield Booster
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Large Micro Jump Drive
Kinetic Deflection Field II
Explosive Deflection Field II

8x 1400mm 'Scout' Artillery I

Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Ionic Field Projector I
Cameron Freerunner
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#12 - 2013-08-06 17:04:40 UTC
I run L4s in a Mael. You don't need that bling repper. T2 is fine. I use an arty fit personally, but it's still very similar to your fit. For mids, t2 repper, 2 mission specific hardeners, paint, shield boost and prop mod. Lows, target range mod (can't remember name), 2 gyros, 2 TE. I've never dropped below 2/3 shield in an L4. Drones are more than enough for frigs that close on you (though they rarely get close enough before i kill them).
Jayne Hobb
25yrs old man playing genshin impact at 4am
#13 - 2013-08-07 13:00:36 UTC
I picked up the Maelstrom today with the fit I posted two posts up, and took it out for a spin. The tank held very well, and although slow boating it to cans sucked (damn 50km away... You couldnt have been 100km? lol) I was absolutely stocked when I dropped a BS in a single volley... The rate of fire is not all that hot, but it felt amazing pressing F1, and watching a BS just go bang, lol. I was having some tracking issues on cruisers even at range, though.
Alara IonStorm
#14 - 2013-08-07 13:31:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Alara IonStorm
Jayne Hobb wrote:
I picked up the Maelstrom today with the fit I posted two posts up, and took it out for a spin. The tank held very well, and although slow boating it to cans sucked (damn 50km away... You couldnt have been 100km? lol) I was absolutely stocked when I dropped a BS in a single volley... The rate of fire is not all that hot, but it felt amazing pressing F1, and watching a BS just go bang, lol. I was having some tracking issues on cruisers even at range, though.

Yes I disliked my 800mm tried with 2 TE and 3 TE pre nerf, I just wasn't getting that much damage at all. 800's were good for some very particular missions so I kept the guns though but I moved to 1400 Artillery and it also had some tracking issues. I dropped the Meta 4 1400mm's for 1200mm II's and it worked a bit better. It was however disheartening to see low bounty Battleships no longer vaporize when you got them at just the right range. I personally ditched the AB for 2 TC's on the Arty version.

I eventually ditched the thing for an SNI since I was fighting mostly Sansha missions and the NPC TD buff that cut falloff messed with both my Artillery and to a much greater extent Auto's. The Cruise buff has been very good to my SNI. It might work well if you try a Phoon if you have the Missile skills, that accuracy bonus looks pretty sweet.
Jayne Hobb
25yrs old man playing genshin impact at 4am
#15 - 2013-08-07 13:49:09 UTC
Not looking for a missile ship. (although it is a hybrid) I fly a Tengu and CNR on my "main", and I wanted to give guns a go. I had a blast in my Stabber and Hurricane.

Since I am already running a TC and two TEs, I am not really sure that adding a fourth would make a real difference. After this last mission (Stop the thief) I found that using the MJD, and going in reverse from my normal kill order was best. (I used to go frigate > Cruiser > BS) I found that completely ignoring frigates was best, and work the BS's and then the cruisers after. Once the frigates get within about 30km, I drop my Hobgobs, and let them run loose. My original plan was to hit the frigs at range while they came in, but two guns werent always enough to drop a non-elite frig, especially if it missed. It was such a waste, that I focused on the big stuff, and the mission went very quickly.
Alara IonStorm
#16 - 2013-08-07 14:07:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Alara IonStorm
Jayne Hobb wrote:

Since I am already running a TC and two TEs, I am not really sure that adding a fourth would make a real difference.

Less of a forth module to me and more of a second when it concerns their script.

Effect of module pecking order.

1. = 100%
2. = 87%
3. = 57%
4. = 28%

2 Opt Scripts

Range Stacking

1. TC = + 15% Opt / 30% Falloff
2. TC = + 15% Opt / 30% Falloff
3. TE = + 10% Opt / 20% Falloff
4. TE = + 10% Opt / 20% Falloff

Tracking

1. TE = + 9.5%
2. TE = + 9.5%
3. TC = Nothing
4. TC = Nothing

2 Tracking Scripts

Tracking Stacking

1. TC = +30%
2. TC = +30%
3. TE = + 9.5%
4. TE = + 9.5%

Range Stacking

1. TE = + 10% Opt / 20% Falloff
2. TE = + 10% Opt / 20% Falloff
3. TC = Nothing
4. TC = Nothing

So with Opt scripts you get the TE's light tracking along with the TC's better range first while with Tracking scripts you still get the TE's range with the TC's better tracking first. I personally found it more helpful than an AB for most Missions myself.
Cameron Freerunner
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#17 - 2013-08-07 14:56:45 UTC
Sounds like you found something that makes you happy. I was curious though how the MJD works in conjunction with 800s. Are you fighting in falloff? Or are you using it to close distance, rather than gain distance?
Jayne Hobb
25yrs old man playing genshin impact at 4am
#18 - 2013-08-07 15:17:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Jayne Hobb
I was going to use an AB with the 800s, but since people suggested that I try arty, I am using 1400mms and the MJD. My range with falloff is exactly 100km, and I have 107km in targeting.
Jani Padecain
Panama Investment Bank
#19 - 2013-08-07 15:25:09 UTC
I´m personally really big fan of MJD setups. Bigest advantage you get is the long distance between you and the rats. This factor alone lets you downgrade your tank heavilly and use the free PG and CPU on pure damage instead.

You need to be carefull tho, one failure with MJD can have some expensive side effects...