These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Warfare & Tactics

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Passive aggressive strategies for fitting highs/mids for evasion?

First post
Author
Droidster
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2013-08-02 18:35:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Droidster
For evading one or two tacklers an option would seem to be using ECM to break their lock, but how effective is this if they can just relock? Another passive agressive option is neuts. How effective are such strategies for managing an escape?

Not that I would run from a fight or anything, but just asking hypothetically.
Marsan
#2 - 2013-08-03 01:15:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Marsan
Generally if I'm trying to avoid a fight I do the following:

High- cloak, neuts, cyno*
Mid- Microwarp/MicroJump, ECM, ABS
Low- Warp stabs
Drone- ECM, light damage

* Last ditch for large camps as it scares the hell out of them, sometimes they will run, and you'll live.

But honestly if you can't do the cloak and microwarp trick your dead if they have enough point. If you are packing 3+ stabs anyone able to prevent you from warp won't be foiled by ecm.

If you aren't configured for travel, and are jumped by a small ship a flight of ECM drones can often make the difference between life and death.

As far as ECM only ECM burst just breaks locks everything else prevents you from locking for a time. (Okay and lock breaker bombs..) This works but you need to be aligned, and at speed so you can burst and go right into warp.

Former forum cheerleader CCP, now just a grumpy small portion of the community.

Ciyrine
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#3 - 2013-08-03 18:57:32 UTC
Marsan wrote:
Generally if I'm trying to avoid a fight I do the following:

High- cloak, neuts, cyno*
Mid- Microwarp/MicroJump, ECM, ABS
Low- Warp stabs
Drone- ECM, light damage

* Last ditch for large camps as it scares the hell out of them, sometimes they will run, and you'll live.

But honestly if you can't do the cloak and microwarp trick your dead if they have enough point. If you are packing 3+ stabs anyone able to prevent you from warp won't be foiled by ecm.

If you aren't configured for travel, and are jumped by a small ship a flight of ECM drones can often make the difference between life and death.

As far as ECM only ECM burst just breaks locks everything else prevents you from locking for a time. (Okay and lock breaker bombs..) This works but you need to be aligned, and at speed so you can burst and go right into warp.


Isnt the problem with burst that like all ecm its random so some of the targetting ships will maintain their lock? And they can insta lock u again. Since ull likely be webbed u wont be up to speed and wont get there before pointed again?
Droidster
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2013-08-03 19:16:00 UTC
Ciyrine wrote:
Marsan wrote:
Generally if I'm trying to avoid a fight I do the following:

High- cloak, neuts, cyno*
Mid- Microwarp/MicroJump, ECM, ABS
Low- Warp stabs
Drone- ECM, light damage

* Last ditch for large camps as it scares the hell out of them, sometimes they will run, and you'll live.

But honestly if you can't do the cloak and microwarp trick your dead if they have enough point. If you are packing 3+ stabs anyone able to prevent you from warp won't be foiled by ecm.

If you aren't configured for travel, and are jumped by a small ship a flight of ECM drones can often make the difference between life and death.

As far as ECM only ECM burst just breaks locks everything else prevents you from locking for a time. (Okay and lock breaker bombs..) This works but you need to be aligned, and at speed so you can burst and go right into warp.


Isnt the problem with burst that like all ecm its random so some of the targetting ships will maintain their lock? And they can insta lock u again. Since ull likely be webbed u wont be up to speed and wont get there before pointed again?


I don't think webbing affects the warp condition. Its 75% of your top speed, regardless of whether you are webbed or not.
Bad Messenger
Rehabilitation Clinic
#5 - 2013-08-03 20:36:03 UTC
killing tackler is best way to evade those, so more dps !
Machiavelli's Nemesis
Angry Mustellid
#6 - 2013-08-03 20:52:23 UTC
Droidster wrote:
Ciyrine wrote:
Marsan wrote:
Generally if I'm trying to avoid a fight I do the following:

High- cloak, neuts, cyno*
Mid- Microwarp/MicroJump, ECM, ABS
Low- Warp stabs
Drone- ECM, light damage

* Last ditch for large camps as it scares the hell out of them, sometimes they will run, and you'll live.

But honestly if you can't do the cloak and microwarp trick your dead if they have enough point. If you are packing 3+ stabs anyone able to prevent you from warp won't be foiled by ecm.

If you aren't configured for travel, and are jumped by a small ship a flight of ECM drones can often make the difference between life and death.

As far as ECM only ECM burst just breaks locks everything else prevents you from locking for a time. (Okay and lock breaker bombs..) This works but you need to be aligned, and at speed so you can burst and go right into warp.


Isnt the problem with burst that like all ecm its random so some of the targetting ships will maintain their lock? And they can insta lock u again. Since ull likely be webbed u wont be up to speed and wont get there before pointed again?


I don't think webbing affects the warp condition. Its 75% of your top speed, regardless of whether you are webbed or not.


Ummm. Have you ever played a game called Eve online?
Droidster
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2013-08-03 21:03:51 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Flidais Asagiri
Machiavelli's Nemesis wrote:
Droidster wrote:
Ciyrine wrote:
Marsan wrote:
Generally if I'm trying to avoid a fight I do the following:

High- cloak, neuts, cyno*
Mid- Microwarp/MicroJump, ECM, ABS
Low- Warp stabs
Drone- ECM, light damage

* Last ditch for large camps as it scares the hell out of them, sometimes they will run, and you'll live.

But honestly if you can't do the cloak and microwarp trick your dead if they have enough point. If you are packing 3+ stabs anyone able to prevent you from warp won't be foiled by ecm.

If you aren't configured for travel, and are jumped by a small ship a flight of ECM drones can often make the difference between life and death.

As far as ECM only ECM burst just breaks locks everything else prevents you from locking for a time. (Okay and lock breaker bombs..) This works but you need to be aligned, and at speed so you can burst and go right into warp.


Isnt the problem with burst that like all ecm its random so some of the targetting ships will maintain their lock? And they can insta lock u again. Since ull likely be webbed u wont be up to speed and wont get there before pointed again?


I don't think webbing affects the warp condition. Its 75% of your top speed, regardless of whether you are webbed or not.


Ummm. Have you ever played a game called Eve online?


Ummm, go **** yourself and say something meaningful if you disagree. My understanding is that a webifier will not slow down a warp because it reduces the top speed of the vessel, in fact it can even make you warp faster because you get to 75% faster than if you are unwebbed. If you think something different, let's hear it, but don't just be a **** and make snide remarks about how I haven't played the game newb.

***Edited for work around by Flidais****
Donbe Scurred
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2013-08-03 21:21:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Donbe Scurred
Droidster wrote:
Machiavelli's Nemesis wrote:
Droidster wrote:
Ciyrine wrote:
Marsan wrote:
Generally if I'm trying to avoid a fight I do the following:

High- cloak, neuts, cyno*
Mid- Microwarp/MicroJump, ECM, ABS
Low- Warp stabs
Drone- ECM, light damage

* Last ditch for large camps as it scares the hell out of them, sometimes they will run, and you'll live.

But honestly if you can't do the cloak and microwarp trick your dead if they have enough point. If you are packing 3+ stabs anyone able to prevent you from warp won't be foiled by ecm.

If you aren't configured for travel, and are jumped by a small ship a flight of ECM drones can often make the difference between life and death.

As far as ECM only ECM burst just breaks locks everything else prevents you from locking for a time. (Okay and lock breaker bombs..) This works but you need to be aligned, and at speed so you can burst and go right into warp.


Isnt the problem with burst that like all ecm its random so some of the targetting ships will maintain their lock? And they can insta lock u again. Since ull likely be webbed u wont be up to speed and wont get there before pointed again?


I don't think webbing affects the warp condition. Its 75% of your top speed, regardless of whether you are webbed or not.


Ummm. Have you ever played a game called Eve online?


Ummm, go screw yourself and say something meaningful if you disagree. My understanding is that a webifier will not slow down a warp because it reduces the top speed of the vessel, in fact it can even make you warp faster because you get to 75% faster than if you are unwebbed. If you think something different, let's hear it, but don't just be a pr1ck and make snide remarks about how I haven't played the game newb.


No need to be snippy, he was pointing out that you are wrong. (Unfortunately that's how its done here, deal with it)

You even contradicted yourself in your reply.

Web does effect warp condition as it lowers the speed required to enter warp, so your original statement is incorrect.
Droidster
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2013-08-03 22:00:10 UTC
He didn't point out anything, he just insulted me.

This is all kind of irrelevant anyway because it was started by somebody who thought you could impede a warp with a webifier which is not true.

The main question is how to use mids/highs for evasion.
Donbe Scurred
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2013-08-03 22:20:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Donbe Scurred
When you post erroneous statements you should know you will get flamed. Learn and wear it or GTFO, taking offense means he wins.

OT, ECM seems the only viable "passive aggressive" tactic. You should be aligned and then take your chance of jamming.

The correct strategy would be to take the necessary steps (read:scout ahead) to not get tackled in the first place if actively aggressing is not a viable tactic.

The Cyno tactic would hold some merit if you are in a corp/alliance/coalition known for such tactics but it is a niche situation and seems less likely to be successful when hypothetically generalizing.
Sean Parisi
Blackrise Vanguard
#11 - 2013-08-04 05:28:39 UTC
Friend-Ship your ship, come on man.
Machiavelli's Nemesis
Angry Mustellid
#12 - 2013-08-04 10:14:35 UTC
Droidster wrote:
He didn't point out anything, he just insulted me.

This is all kind of irrelevant anyway because it was started by somebody who thought you could impede a warp with a webifier which is not true.

The main question is how to use mids/highs for evasion.


Heh, I didn't insult you. If I wanted to insult you I would have linked this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0Q93v7hGZA

oh wait...
Voyager Arran
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#13 - 2013-08-04 12:03:41 UTC
The standard option is neuts, preferably medium or larger. They can cap out a tackler that has gotten under your guns and let you get away. A cloak is another good option; it won't save you if you're already caught, but if you warp to a safe spot and cloak up then all you have to do is tab out and do something else until the people hunting you get bored.

If you get proper caught, there's really nothing that's going to get you out of it with any sort of a reliability. A cyno might make them jump when it goes off, but that's not a bluff that's going to last ten minutes.
Solutio Letum
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2013-08-13 22:00:27 UTC
Voyager Arran wrote:
The standard option is neuts, preferably medium or larger. They can cap out a tackler that has gotten under your guns and let you get away. A cloak is another good option; it won't save you if you're already caught, but if you warp to a safe spot and cloak up then all you have to do is tab out and do something else until the people hunting you get bored.

If you get proper caught, there's really nothing that's going to get you out of it with any sort of a reliability. A cyno might make them jump when it goes off, but that's not a bluff that's going to last ten minutes.


I dissagre, if you fit a cyno, they first off take the desision to stay or leave, thats a quick 30-60 seconds easy, even less some people will insta warp out, if they where quick they need to desid if they are going to come back. Because maybe your titan missed the jump, someone was AFK and what not, who knows, they could just be waiting on you to come back, if the fleet cares about there roam or camp, or even ships, they'll stay away and wont come back, if they dont and just want to finish with a kill they'll come to kill you.

On the other hand if you tried ECM and Neuts and drop the cyno then they might not even leave and watch the cyno for your noobie carrier to jump in, i would wait for it, i mean someone drops a cyno i dont really care i lost this ships more then 100 times lets see what pops in you are stuck there anyways.
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#15 - 2013-08-13 22:15:00 UTC
Machiavelli's Nemesis wrote:
Droidster wrote:
He didn't point out anything, he just insulted me.

This is all kind of irrelevant anyway because it was started by somebody who thought you could impede a warp with a webifier which is not true.

The main question is how to use mids/highs for evasion.


Heh, I didn't insult you. If I wanted to insult you I would have linked this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0Q93v7hGZA

oh wait...


To end the bickering between you two, cause it's annoying:

ECM burst is chance based, and sometimes works to get tackle off you, but often doesn't. What's more, if you are Webbed and Scrammed, and then ECM burst, the web as well as the scram disengage from you. Since the web falls off, your max velocity instantly increases by 1 / ( 1 - .60 ) = 250%, which means you don't insta-warp and need a few seconds to achieve the warp velocity threshold ( = 75% of Max Velocity). In bigger ships, or slow aligning ships, this gives a fast tackler the chance to relock and retackle you before you warp.
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#16 - 2013-08-13 22:35:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Gizznitt Malikite
Marsan wrote:
Generally if I'm trying to avoid a fight I do the following:

High- cloak, neuts, cyno*
Mid- Microwarp/MicroJump, ECM, ABS
Low- Warp stabs
Drone- ECM, light damage

* Last ditch for large camps as it scares the hell out of them, sometimes they will run, and you'll live.

But honestly if you can't do the cloak and microwarp trick your dead if they have enough point. If you are packing 3+ stabs anyone able to prevent you from warp won't be foiled by ecm.

If you aren't configured for travel, and are jumped by a small ship a flight of ECM drones can often make the difference between life and death.

As far as ECM only ECM burst just breaks locks everything else prevents you from locking for a time. (Okay and lock breaker bombs..) This works but you need to be aligned, and at speed so you can burst and go right into warp.


This post nails most of the solutions:

Highs:
Cloaking is the most sure way to avoid a fight, as it forces the opponent to decloak you. If you are far away or better yet, off grid when you cloak, it is highly unlikely they will be able to declaok you.

Cloaking is also used the the MWD-Cloak Trick. Come into a system, align to your outgate, hit cloak, hit your mwd (you have about 2 s to do this after you cloak), wait until your mwd completes its cycle, and then immediately decloak and spam warp. If you use a t2 cloak (not a prototype one), your velocity should exceed the 75% threshold required for warp even after you turn off the cloaking device, allowing you to instantly warp upon decloaking. Granted, if you are in a bubble, this won't work.

If you are in a BS, use the MJD-Cloak Trick. Same thing as above, but you hit the MJD instead of the cloak, and you don't even need to bother decloaking! The MJD will auto-decloak you at the end of its cycle, and shoot you forward 100 km's, aligned out your exit gate. You just warp to the exit point immediately and continue on. Realize you can only activate the MJD once every couple of minutes... so be careful if they give chase. The MJD is not stopped by bubbles, so this is the better option when operating in nullsec.

Nuet: Energy Neutralizers are a decent way to break frigate tackle. They won't work so well on cruisers, BCs, and BSs, or on multiple tacklers, as it takes a while to neut off larger ships, and unless you have multiple nuets, it only works on one ship. Also, cap boosters and Nos's are very effective counters to Neuts:

Cynos: You can light a cyno to bluff your way out of a "I'm dying and going down" situation... but this honestly should never work. If it does, your enemy is incompetent, as you'll be sitting in space, immobile, with a giant warp-to-me beacon, for 10 minutes.

Mids:
MWD might allow you to outrun your enemy if you are in a fast ship... This works well for dramiels and fleet interceptors.

MJD, as long as you aren't scrambled at the time the MJD activates (end of cycle), will jump you forward 100 km's. This often allows you to break tackle and get free. If you are scrammed, try ecm bursting a second or two before you MJD completes its cycle; you may get lucky and break the lock of the scrambler.

ECM Burst: This is a chance based get-out-of-jail-maybe-card. If successful, it will break the lock of every ship tackling you. The more ships, and the bigger their sensor strength, the less likely this is to work. Be aligned, and spam warp after activating this module.

ECM: Unbonused ECM is pretty low success rate, but if you jam off a ship it can't tackle you for 20 seconds. This may be worth it.

Lows:
Warp core stabs are the obvious direct counter to being tackled. Each WCS adds 1 warp core strength to your ship. One will counter a single warp disruptor, and two will counter the you-cannot-warp effect of a single scrambler. Granted, if you are in a bubble, or tackled by a hictor's infinite-pt, these won't help you.

Align speed modules: Nanofibers, Inertia Stabilizers, and corresponding rigs will allow your ship to align faster. On smaller ships, it is possible to improve your align time that most ships simply cannot lock you before you warp. On larger ships, it makes some of the above techniques much more effective.
ISD Flidais Asagiri
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#17 - 2013-08-15 06:45:54 UTC
Greetings

Lets stay on topic and keep the personal attacks out of the discussion.

On On

ISD Flidais Asagiri Lt. Commander Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department

Marsan
#18 - 2013-08-15 08:21:56 UTC
Note that I'm mostly joking about the cyno. I do fit one for grins every so often as I often have a random collection of them looted off random wrecks around stations. (I have a looting issue...) Most pirates are going to warp off, and come back at a perch 100+ off the gate to see what jumps in, and send in some cheap ships take you out, but if you're already dying it's at least asmusing to scare your attackers for a bit. Only used the cyno once on my FW alt when I fat fingered my cloak, campers warped off, came back, someone else joined the fun, and then I blew up.... (Not sure if the campers or FW fleet won as I barely escaped with my implants intact.)

Former forum cheerleader CCP, now just a grumpy small portion of the community.

Machiavelli's Nemesis
Angry Mustellid
#19 - 2013-08-15 09:17:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Machiavelli's Nemesis
Marsan wrote:
Note that I'm mostly joking about the cyno. I do fit one for grins every so often as I often have a random collection of them looted off random wrecks around stations. (I have a looting issue...) Most pirates are going to warp off, and come back at a perch 100+ off the gate to see what jumps in, and send in some cheap ships take you out, but if you're already dying it's at least asmusing to scare your attackers for a bit. Only used the cyno once on my FW alt when I fat fingered my cloak, campers warped off, came back, someone else joined the fun, and then I blew up.... (Not sure if the campers or FW fleet won as I barely escaped with my implants intact.)


Having spare cynos in fleet should be a standard thing if you ever plan to drop. There's no legislating for potential derpiness from your primary in-cyno otherwise. Or y'know, making yourself look like bait works too :)