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Class 4 POS advice
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Magnus Saken
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1 - 2013-08-03 20:49:33 UTC
firstly i know of a few things such as

- Class 4 lolol no one will want to evict you (but this is eve and i am never surprised by what people will do with to much time on there hands)
-No POS Defense / Setup is perfect... if they want to they will kill it

My biggest issue is currently we have a class 2, have a large amarr setup and i have it setup just the way i like it, med/small beams pulses ECMs and hardners.. something that will deter most people.

But my big issue now is moving corp to the class 4 they like to mine etc when sleeper stuff is not going on. None of us can fly a rorqual and really don't want to build one in the c4. That said our only other option really is an intensive refining array which happens to take up a crap load of CPU.

So at that it really only leaves us 2 choices. Gallente or Caldari tower. The main issue is if its a caldari i can make it work, but leaves pretty much no room for guns, just ECM, hardeners and maybe a web and scram with the CHA and SMA. I know about offlining the Intensive refining array and onlining / off lining other stuff but even at that theirs so little power grid for guns (and missiles no point) that nothing will really work.

Gallante i got a ok mix of small/medium guns & hardeners but is 6 ECM each sufficient? My main thing is guns are ok for maybe 1-2 people but honestly RR battleships can tank guns no issue.. so the more ECM's the better for that fact. to turn on the intensive refining array i would have to offline about 4 guns.. no biggie thats only 8 minutes to put back online.

Any suggestions? Do i just suck it up and put to large towers in? one with the SMA, CHA, and a few other things and load it way up with guns / ecms / hardners and have a separate POS for refining and gas stuff? Im weary on a 2nd pos just for refining array just having its own POS as its an extra 300ish mil isk a month and they would have to mine a lot in order to pay for that fuel (corp takes a % for pos fuel)

Anyone have any suggestions?
Svodola Darkfury
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2013-08-03 21:57:11 UTC
I would advise leaving your refining array offlined whenever it is not in use. Have your other defenses anchored so that if you need to you can just offline the refining array and get your defenses turning back on quickly. Don't skimp on your defenses just because they can't all be online at the same time.

Svo.

Director of Frozen Corpse Industries.
Keith Planck
Hi-Sec Huggers
#3 - 2013-08-04 01:07:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Keith Planck
Caldari Tower, and endless amounts of ECM mods.

Have resistance and 3x the ECM mods anchored and offline.

There is no reason to bring anything other then ECM and resistance mods to a C4 or lower class hole.

♞
Mr Kidd
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2013-08-04 04:58:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Mr Kidd
First realize that a refinery, if you don't already know, has 25% wastage that can't be skilled away.

With that out of the way, the only thing I use Caldari for is reactions. It does have enough defense to deter all but determined attackers.

You have to realize something about w-space. Once you're inhabiting a system you can never have enough people to defend it from a determined foe. What I mean is, someone can always bring more people to overcome your defenses. Once that's done and they have hole control, you're finished unless you happen to have friends who can rage roll their way into you. But this is not likely for most corps.

Now, Caldari has the advantage of being the ultimate dickstar with its ECM bonus which can be quite difficult to take down. I've seen a 60 man fleet have to try 4 times before they figured it out and defeated one due to attrition. A dickstar isn't a bad choice for a corp who doesn't have the ability to defend their POSes from determined foe's especially if you don't have more than a few pos gunners. But for Caldari, forget putting cruise/torp batteries on it, just don't.

If you do have pos gunners and want to make a deathstar then any of the other 3 racial towers will make fine platforms.

Just be sure to have adequate defenses and redundancy and it will deter all but a determined enemy which is really all you can hope for in the first place.

Don't ban me, bro!
Sith1s Spectre
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#5 - 2013-08-04 09:12:51 UTC
I think i answered one of these threads some time ago, but because i'm lazy and half drunk here we go again.

1st rule of POS defence is there is no perfect POS defence. If you **** someone off badly enough they will burn your tower/s to the ground.

In saying that - redundancy is key. Have all your defences online + extras, that way you can online them if/when you ever get sieged (and because you're in a c4, that's highly unlikely)

Speaking of defences - ECM mods, Neuts and guns (autocannons are best imo)

Tower - large minmatar all the way.

Final note - if you're mining in WHs you're doing it wrong, unless your aim is to make some sort of funky video

Resident forum troll and fashion consultant
Bernie Nator
Seal Club Six
Plug N Play
#6 - 2013-08-04 16:00:27 UTC
Sith1s Spectre wrote:
I think i answered one of these threads some time ago, but because i'm lazy and half drunk here we go again.

1st rule of POS defence is there is no perfect POS defence. If you **** someone off badly enough they will burn your tower/s to the ground.

In saying that - redundancy is key. Have all your defences online + extras, that way you can online them if/when you ever get sieged (and because you're in a c4, that's highly unlikely)

Speaking of defences - ECM mods, Neuts and guns (autocannons are best imo)

Tower - large minmatar all the way.

Final note - if you're mining in WHs you're doing it wrong, unless your aim is to make some sort of funky video

The point being made here is that if someone wants to punch your face, it's going to get punched. Your best defense is wearing tons of foam padding; enough that trying to punch your face through it will take awhile.
Godfrey Silvarna
Arctic Light Inc.
Arctic Light
#7 - 2013-08-04 16:35:22 UTC
#1 Configure your POS to shoot at everything
#2 Put ammo into your guns
#3 Put strontium into your tower

Then you are good. The details are not essential.

Seriously. I have been shooting at so many towers that don't shoot back recently that it is getting absolutely absurd. Several haven't even had strontium in them. From now on, I am going to make a habit out of testing poses to see if they even target me at range. If you can make your POS actually DO something, you are doing better than many WH dwellers in lower class holes.

Farmers, why u no defend?
Keith Planck
Hi-Sec Huggers
#8 - 2013-08-04 22:05:44 UTC
Sith1s Spectre wrote:
some sort of funky video


<3

♞
Kast Agnet
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2013-08-05 17:23:37 UTC
Sith1s Spectre wrote:

1st rule of POS defence is there is no perfect POS defence. If you **** someone off badly enough they will burn your tower/s to the ground.

This is actually not true except in the most extremest of extreme cases (They build a dread) The key to effective corp C1-C4 POS defense is actually not just the setup (I agree with Sith on the Minmy all the way bit btw) but is POS gunners and if possible a multi-timezone corp. I have held off 70+ BS + T3 + Logi fleets with 5 x L5 POS gunners and claimed a good few kills in the process before they give up. Permajammed pos-gunned logi scares the crap out of ANY C1-C4 bashing fleet and anyone telling you different is lying.

Sith1s Spectre wrote:
In saying that - redundancy is key. Have all your defences online + extras,

Kind of true but ..... assuming you take the advice on the POS gunners you need to stay on top of what is being primaried if it is not the tower. The moment that array goes incapacitated it stays sucking the CPU and PG so you can't deploy the redundant array, so you need to be ready to power it down and online another.

Sith1s Spectre wrote:
Speaking of defences - ECM mods, Neuts and guns (autocannons are best imo)

ECM yes. Neuts not really, medium autos suck balls in comparison to arti alpha so just use smalls. What is most important is faction webs! 97.50% slow down will make any speedtankers day a bad one so get a least 5 or 6 of those bad boys on the tower.

Sith1s Spectre wrote:
Final note - if you're mining in WHs you're doing it wrong, unless your aim is to make some sort of funky video
Agreed but if you must do it (Bearing in mind they are non-scannable and appear just as easily as anoms ergo you dead!) then don't lose the 25% just invest in Itty 5's and DST's (Impel) and wait for the inevitable C2 to open up to you.

Kast
Seleia O'Sinnor
Drop of Honey
#10 - 2013-08-05 18:54:19 UTC
My 50 cents. Go for Amarr: Much less ammo hassle.

Go for ECM, lots of ECM, some small guns and 2 scrams onlined at the "poles". Add more threatening(lol) medium guns later, only a few so every spot is covered.

Here is an old and still good resource on POS defense building.

Some stuff on placement of the modules.

A beginners guide.

IGB pos planner.

Odyssey: Repacking in POS hangars for modules +1,  but please for other stuff too, especially containers. Make containers openable in POS hangars.
Phoenix Jones
Small-Arms Fire
#11 - 2013-08-05 19:22:07 UTC
Seleia O'Sinnor wrote:
My 50 cents. Go for Amarr: Much less ammo hassle.

Go for ECM, lots of ECM, some small guns and 2 scrams onlined at the "poles". Add more threatening(lol) medium guns later, only a few so every spot is covered.

Here is an old and still good resource on POS defense building.

Some stuff on placement of the modules.

A beginners guide.

IGB pos planner.


The above is true but unless your getting attacked daily you won't run out of bullets. Stick with your tower gun unless its caldari (don't put launchers on it, go with artillery instead).

Small and medium guns, you won't need large guns.

ECM to grief logi.

Minimum, 2 scramblers and 1 to 2 disruptors. 3 to 5 of each type of ECM, .2 to 4 webs. And hardeners. You can fit quite a bit if you really plan it out.

One of the more badass setups I saw was double neut, 3 webs about 20 guns along with about twice the amount of ECM (some faction ones intermixed). If you have a pos gunner you should be able to kill whatever attacks.

It is a c4 thoug most won't bother to evict.

Yaay!!!!
Magnus Saken
State War Academy
Caldari State
#12 - 2013-08-06 11:45:03 UTC
Ok well i don't think im gonna worry about it to much then.. c4's seem quite undesirable to evict someone.

My current setup is like 2 webs / 2 scrams / 4 small beams / pulses, 4 medium beams / pulses (With more offline) about 10-15 ECMS of each type and hardeners with resists at 43/43/50/43 with more hardeners offline also.

I agree about the mining and as we have a corp buy back program i really wish i didn't have to deal with ore its way to much work for what its worth and thinking of maybe cutting it out.. i mean depending on what ore it is it can be 30k M3 for 14 mil isk worth... its a huge PITA... i would prefer just sleeper loot and Gas would make it feel little less of a chore.
Evangelina Nolen
Sama Guild
#13 - 2013-08-06 12:24:23 UTC
Your best bet for defense is actually what your C4 statics into. If it's C2 or C3, you are much more likely to get evicted than any other C4. C4/C5 statics on the other hand, esp with a crappy effect & ****** pi; a small/meduim tower ecm suprisingly won't get stront checked for months{saves billions in fuel}.
Seleia O'Sinnor
Drop of Honey
#14 - 2013-08-06 13:01:20 UTC
Magnus Saken wrote:
Ok well i don't think im gonna worry about it to much then.. c4's seem quite undesirable to evict someone.

My current setup is like 2 webs / 2 scrams / 4 small beams / pulses, 4 medium beams / pulses (With more offline) about 10-15 ECMS of each type and hardeners with resists at 43/43/50/43 with more hardeners offline also.

I agree about the mining and as we have a corp buy back program i really wish i didn't have to deal with ore its way to much work for what its worth and thinking of maybe cutting it out.. i mean depending on what ore it is it can be 30k M3 for 14 mil isk worth... its a huge PITA... i would prefer just sleeper loot and Gas would make it feel little less of a chore.


I think you are pretty good to go. After your initial setup just add twice the amount of guns as reserve and some neuts(lol) noone in his right mind(well this Eve...) will evict you and undergo the hassles of removing all the mods. Make it a white hot pain to be attacked.

POS gunners ftw. It's always good to show some determination if someone wants to find out.

Odyssey: Repacking in POS hangars for modules +1,  but please for other stuff too, especially containers. Make containers openable in POS hangars.
Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery
Sending Thots And Players
#15 - 2013-08-08 05:15:09 UTC
The lads and I, from olden times, were discussing reasons why Sudden Buggery began sieges.

Top cab off the rank was "it had no scrams". If it is as easy as warp away when your tank dies, you can motivate for a siege easily. No risk, game on.

Secondly was a paltry amount of guns. You know...6 small rails only kind of thing. If you can tank it with a single maelstrom, its not nasty enough.

Third cab off the rank was a proper ECM diqstar. With no guns all you need is sentry domis por Ishtars and a few hours to Rf the stick, then slide out of scram range. Job done.

This is followed by people putting far too much candy inside, including 4 caps for a 3 man corp. Yep, we want cap kills, and we will push to get them.

Lower down the list, but still of significant risk, is being a douchenozzle. You may have blapped the buzzard that tried tackling you, and escaped the gang of mad buggerers about to school you for being hopeless. ROFLcoptering or helicopter-shlong comments in local and ignoring the demand to repay that covops loss are often bad ideas.

Finally, not having your POS set to psycho mode is going to get you sieged. You may have, eg, 24 faction guns but if they don't shoot the dude in the noob ship who fishes you, odds are they'll soon be gracing another corp's POS. Likewise, if your guns get incapped for any reason don't leave them unrepaired.

~~ Localectomy Blog ~~
Chester Floyd
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#16 - 2013-08-08 12:17:57 UTC
No setup will amount to a couple of POS gunners. Issue with unmanned POS mods is that they will cycle randomly between targets. 5 toons with POS gunnery to lvl 4 will let you man 20 mods and concentrate fire or propulsion/signal jamming.
Xessej
Perkone
Caldari State
#17 - 2013-08-08 14:34:21 UTC
My corp has lived in a C4 for several years. Our setup is a faction tower with a lot of guns and even more ECM and hardeners. As far as I know we haven't had a tower kill or a tower taking damage notification ever.

C4's simply aren't worth the effort of evicting a decently setup tower.