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Goonswarm: Return on Investment
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Ersahi Kir
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#61 - 2013-08-02 18:36:23 UTC
Victor Dathar wrote:
Vera Algaert wrote:
But pretending that what you are doing is economically profitable is laughable.


No we are doing it because it is F U N

Remember that? F U N?



It's like beating up the fat kid for his lunch money. You could probably go do something with that time that would net you more money, but then you wouldn't get to beat up the fat kid.
Erotica 1
Krypteia Operations
#62 - 2013-08-02 19:04:37 UTC
Ersahi Kir wrote:
Victor Dathar wrote:
Vera Algaert wrote:
But pretending that what you are doing is economically profitable is laughable.


No we are doing it because it is F U N

Remember that? F U N?



It's like beating up the fat kid for his lunch money. You could probably go do something with that time that would net you more money, but then you wouldn't get to beat up the fat kid.


"Getting beat up for our lunch money is fun"

-anonymous test leader

See Bio for isk doubling rules. If you didn't read bio, chances are you funded those who did.
Victor Dathar
Lowlife.
Snuffed Out
#63 - 2013-08-02 19:24:05 UTC
I didn't say it was fun for everyone now did I?

^^^ lol that post is so bad you should get back 2 GBS m8 o7

@grr_goons : Wisdom, Insight, GBS Posts
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#64 - 2013-08-02 20:06:30 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
It'll be at least a whole month just to pay off the, what is it now, 1.5 trillion, 2 trillion, maybe 3 trillion ISK we paid Black Legion?

So more like 3 months just for that.


i thought the moons brought in 150 bill a month... or am i wrong with that?

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#65 - 2013-08-02 20:33:34 UTC
Ersahi Kir wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:
But they had the geniuses of Baki Yuku and now... Gevlon Goblin

I rest my case.

Eh well.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
knobber Jobbler
State War Academy
Caldari State
#66 - 2013-08-03 01:00:17 UTC
Vera Algaert wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Vera Algaert wrote:

However, the moon income goes into the wallets of a few wealthy individuals whereas most of the cost falls on the shoulders of the grunts. For the small elite that controls alliance wallets the war might look profitable because structures your members grind for you are free.


Only in the terrible, lesser groups we kick out.

Our finances go into providing free pvp ships and activities for everyone from day one newbees to Mr. Vee.

the core point of that paragraph was "whereas most of the cost falls on the shoulders of the grunts".

your post about "free pvp activities" that your members are apparently expected to be grateful for illustrates that point very nicely. we would laugh at any corp that offers "free mining activities - give all your mined minerals to the corp, we will trash half of them and use the rest to reimburse mining barges lost to gankers". But that is exactly what is going on in pvp fleets - you aren't making any profit, you are spending a lot more in opportunity cost than your moons will ever earn. The illusion that your behavior is financially profitable only arises from the division between alliance finances and individual members' finances and the fact that the most of the cost of a war is assigned to the second category and ignored.

I'm not saying that you running unprofitable pvp fleets is any worse than running unprofitable mining fleets - some people are willing to do pvp for free, other people like to do mining for free, who am I to judge? But pretending that what you are doing is economically profitable is laughable.


Your argument about income is horribly flawed. I'll leave you to figure out why.
Gorn Arming
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#67 - 2013-08-03 03:29:09 UTC
Beekeeper Bob wrote:
Hmm, the PR has changed? If Fountain is such a gold mine, then how is it possible that Test ran out of isk?

If Africa has so many natural resources, why is it so poor?

Ponder that for a while, Bob. Ponder it.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#68 - 2013-08-03 05:59:27 UTC
Gorn Arming wrote:
Beekeeper Bob wrote:
Hmm, the PR has changed? If Fountain is such a gold mine, then how is it possible that Test ran out of isk?

If Africa has so many natural resources, why is it so poor?

Ponder that for a while, Bob. Ponder it.

Because bad people were exploiting them to drain the resour-

oh.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#69 - 2013-08-03 08:57:15 UTC
Vera Algaert wrote:


your post about "free pvp activities" that your members are apparently expected to be grateful for illustrates that point very nicely. we would laugh at any corp that offers "free mining activities - give all your mined minerals to the corp, we will trash half of them and use the rest to reimburse mining barges lost to gankers". But that is exactly what is going on in pvp fleets - you aren't making any profit, you are spending a lot more in opportunity cost than your moons will ever earn. The illusion that your behavior is financially profitable only arises from the division between alliance finances and individual members' finances and the fact that the most of the cost of a war is assigned to the second category and ignored.



You appear to be making the mistake of presuming what opportunity cost is to an individual, and that it can be measured only in isk.

I know people who only play to PVP, and therefore any time spent making isk is in fact opportunity cost, costing them the opportunity of having fun.

If it so turns out that their alliance can keep them in fleets, and obviate the need for them to PVE, it will not _matter_ to them in the slightest that some high sec incursioneer is gaining net worth and they are standing still, because they are in fact -shooting people- and thats what they enjoy doing.

That is not shifting a burden from their alliance to their personal wallets, its just recognising that their preference for playing the game involves significant consumption - consumption that is absolutely necessary for the health of the game.
RRNL
Perkone
#70 - 2013-08-03 09:14:45 UTC
2 weeks of war & everyone is back to stationspinning......i wonder when people realizing blobbing 3:1 or 4:1 isnt fun.
OldWolf69
EVE-RO
Goonswarm Federation
#71 - 2013-08-03 11:03:46 UTC
RRNL wrote:
2 weeks of war & everyone is back to stationspinning......i wonder when people realizing blobbing 3:1 or 4:1 isnt fun.

Maybe after....Delve?Lol
Dave Stark
#72 - 2013-08-03 11:07:47 UTC
RRNL wrote:
2 weeks of war & everyone is back to stationspinning......i wonder when people realizing blobbing 3:1 or 4:1 isnt fun.


pretty sure it was stated from the outset that the war was about isk and goons were going to make it as infuriating and distressing as possible for the defenders as they could.

regardless of how much of it was spin by various people, it happened and it was true. at least test decided to make the best of it and form up for one of the biggest fights in eve history.
Aliaster Shtohkman
Doomheim
#73 - 2013-08-03 11:24:27 UTC
So what you are saying is that if someone starts gurilla warfare and keep reinforcing the r64 moons with bomber fleets then goons will have to drop their luxary programs?
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#74 - 2013-08-03 15:00:56 UTC
Aliaster Shtohkman wrote:
So what you are saying is that if someone starts gurilla warfare and keep reinforcing the r64 moons with bomber fleets then goons will have to drop their luxary programs?

Yes, everyone knows this already?

Load your torps and start shooting.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#75 - 2013-08-03 15:01:39 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
RRNL wrote:
2 weeks of war & everyone is back to stationspinning......i wonder when people realizing blobbing 3:1 or 4:1 isnt fun.

pretty sure it was stated from the outset that the war was about isk and goons were going to make it as infuriating and distressing as possible for the defenders as they could.

regardless of how much of it was spin by various people, it happened and it was true.

This is how the CFC does it, yes.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#76 - 2013-08-03 16:36:14 UTC
Aliaster Shtohkman wrote:
So what you are saying is that if someone starts gurilla warfare and keep reinforcing the r64 moons with bomber fleets then goons will have to drop their luxary programs?


you know what, go have fun with that

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#77 - 2013-08-03 23:31:11 UTC
Andski wrote:
Aliaster Shtohkman wrote:
So what you are saying is that if someone starts gurilla warfare and keep reinforcing the r64 moons with bomber fleets then goons will have to drop their luxary programs?

you know what, go have fun with that

N3, you know what you must do. Start chain reinforcing all of Fountain, it's the only way.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
SmilingVagrant
Doomheim
#78 - 2013-08-04 23:04:10 UTC
Aliaster Shtohkman wrote:
So what you are saying is that if someone starts gurilla warfare and keep reinforcing the r64 moons with bomber fleets then goons will have to drop their luxary programs?


We actually fit our posses.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#79 - 2013-08-05 05:30:08 UTC
SmilingVagrant wrote:
Aliaster Shtohkman wrote:
So what you are saying is that if someone starts gurilla warfare and keep reinforcing the r64 moons with bomber fleets then goons will have to drop their luxary programs?

We actually fit our posses.

Shooting our hardened POSes would ... yeah it would be pretty painful.

I've shot hardened POSes, they're pretty painful.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#80 - 2013-08-05 13:19:14 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:


I've shot hardened POSes, they're pretty painful.


Shooting dickstars with sub-caps makes me borderline violent.