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Yulai, can we have it back please?
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Master Sergeant MacRobert
Red Sky Morning
The Amarr Militia.
#21 - 2013-07-29 20:27:05 UTC
Plus 1 but make it a stationless system or a DED/Concord only station with no market.

Make it the fastest but not the only safe route between friendly factions. Then only low sec between the Empire faction rivals.

Then as has been said before increase low sec to segregate all four empires to a greater degree.

Make this a inter empire connection hub and a hotspot for wardecs. Also making it a FW battlezone.

Make the safe routes to the four main trade hubs long.

"Remedy this situation or you shall live out the rest of your life in a pain amplifier"
Phoenix Jones
Small-Arms Fire
#22 - 2013-07-29 20:39:04 UTC
This is worth some consideration. Dunno if CCP has enough free nodes to dedicate to Yulai though.

Yaay!!!!
Shereza
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#23 - 2013-08-01 17:41:42 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
The last thing this game needs is an even more centralized trade hub.



How well is a system with no stations going to work out as a centralized trade hub?
Droidster
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#24 - 2013-08-01 17:57:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Droidster
Yulai has 6 stations. I should try to dig up some old maps to show the way the gates used to be so you can see what it was like.

In general, it was a much more balanced world (this was back in 2004). Yulai had the highest activity, but all of the regional centers (Rens, Oursalaert, Jita/Niyabainen, and Amarr) all had significant activity. For example, in Oursalaert which was the regional center near me there were 100-250 pilots all the time, many engaged in trading or manufacturing. Now, all the regional centers are much lower activity and the reason is the distance from the hub (Jita). Due to the new geography most traders such as myself were forced to move to Caldari space. CCP thought that cutting off Yulai would just remove the central hub and people would move back to the regional centers. This was a complete mistake and error in judgement. In fact, the exact opposite from what they wanted happened: people abandoned the regional hubs and went to Jita.

Of course, it is not strictly necessary to reconnect Yulai. You could simply make new connection "highways" out from Jita which would reinvigorate the regions without changing Jita's status as the hub. For example, if you could get to Oursulaert, Rens and Amarr from Jita in 6 or 7 jumps instead of the current 12 then some people would move out of Jita and back to the regional hubs. But it seems more reasonable to me to make the central hub neutral the way Yulai is, so no one race has the preferred space, the way Caldari do now.
Tampopo Field
Doomheim
#25 - 2013-08-02 00:26:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Tampopo Field
Having some new faster highways to speed up the travel in high sec would be a nice addition. I don't see how having to hop through a larger number of systems while travelling through adds anything to the game. aside from adding annoyance to those who don't live near Jita.

I also the suggestion that allied factions would have other hish sec connections, but gettinc from calmari/amarr space to gallente/minnie space would require a trip through th Genesis region. It would fit the lore. And add a new chokepoint for suicide gankers to exploit. This would require quite a lot of work though and most likely cause ALOT of angry backlash from people inconvinienced by it as well as from those who just plain don't like change, regardless of it's relevance to them.

The recommendation that Yalai would not have a market to prevent it from turning into a Jita 3.0 or something however is pointless. First off, it would be fairly ineffective as the new hub could form into another system just next to it. Also, even though travel times between empires would be reduces, calmari space would still remain the most populated area. A new hub, would form in Genesis. But would it become larger then Jita is now? Not neccessarily. And concidering how set in their ways people can be, Jita might retain it's crown as the largest of trade hubs.

As for suggestions along the lines of "go through low sec to shorten travel time", doing something like that in a hauler, even core stabbed one, isn't that smart an idea. Such trips tend to end up in flames.

And to those creating or endorsing suggestions like this https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 to separate all empires with low sec, I pose few questions: did you truly stop to concider how such changes would affect people who do not share your playstyle? A large segment of players like living in high sec. What makes you think that your chosen playstyle is any superior to theirs? Or do you simply not care, because it will be a boon for you? After all, who cares how it will affect others as long as you get your chanse to pad you no doubt huge killboards with haulers, missioners and other pve ships. CCP should just force them to change their playstyle to suit your needs.

Notification: Because I'm lazy, I have a tendency to post without proof reading. This may result in various errors including but not limited to typos, weird typos, grammatical errors, bizarre sentence structure, words written repeatedly, mislocated paragraphs, pointlessly complicated explanations, general incoherency, and abrupt endings.
Droidster
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2013-08-03 02:27:37 UTC
I was looking at some old maps to try to figure out which connections got cut and found several of them. In the old map there were stargates between the following systems:

Yulai - Lustrevik
Kemerk - Niyabainen
Yulai - Emsar

There were one or two other cuts too I think, but just these three and you can see the enormous effect on the travel times.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#27 - 2013-08-03 03:50:10 UTC
Droidster wrote:
This completely failed. What happened is that everybody moved to Jita, the second biggest hub due to the popularity of Caldari ships.


It wasn't the ships hon. It was the blood....






....lines.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Petrified
Old and Petrified Syndication
#28 - 2013-08-03 04:54:49 UTC
An interesting idea. I don't see any drawbacks to this really.

Though I must admit, there is a certain appeal to Commander Ted's separation of empires with low sec that makes sense as well.

Given people being cultured to consider Jita the main hub, it is doubtful there will be an overnight explosion in Yulai should it be restored. And, of course, such movement will provide certain elements many more ganking opportunities.

Cloaking is the closest thing to a "Pause Game" button one can get while in space.

Support better localization for the Japanese Community.
Ines Tegator
Serious Business Inc. Ltd. LLC. etc.
#29 - 2013-08-03 15:47:12 UTC
Rowells wrote:
sure, why not

What this guy said.

Mix things up, watch the chat bots cry.

Overhaul Dscan!
ELWhappo Sanchez
#30 - 2013-08-03 21:39:50 UTC
Mag's wrote:
I always thought it was a bad change tbh. So yes I agree, time to change it back.

+1

was much better before jita for sure.
Commander Ted
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#31 - 2013-08-03 21:58:38 UTC
Ines Tegator wrote:
Rowells wrote:
sure, why not

What this guy said.

Mix things up, watch the chat bots cry.

watch chat bots just move somewhere else.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec.
Commander Ted
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#32 - 2013-08-03 22:03:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Commander Ted
This will change nothing except make life in hisec more trivial than it already is. People will still flock to one system for trade, it might be JIta or it might be Yulai.
Also the populations excluding trade hubs in the four empires are already close to being equal in population.
I got a chart to prove it.
http://youtu.be/7MZD6-vGQms?t=6m39s

The reason Jita is still a super hub is because consolidating trade in one place is so damn convenient for traders that no matter where you live in hisec Jita is the best place to sell your stuff, it will just be transported by others to the other hubs and have the prices marked up.

Eve shouldn't be a game where you just click mine and wait, then click build, and then click sell. Having things like long travel time and barriers enriches the sandbox and adds more variables to prevent homogeneity. Just making it all one really close blob will make the game much more boring just so you can have things be easy.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec.
Aliventi
Rattini Tribe
Minmatar Fleet Alliance
#33 - 2013-08-03 23:45:25 UTC
Commander Ted wrote:

Eve shouldn't be a game where you just click mine and wait, then click build, and then click sell. Having things like long travel time and barriers enriches the sandbox and adds more variables to prevent homogeneity. Just making it all one really close blob will make the game much more boring just so you can have things be easy.

Because highsec is the epitome of interesting and isn't already trivial at all... Roll

Whether it should be or not, Eve is a game where you just click mine and wait, then click build, and then click sell. How in the world is a few fewer jumps in a afk freighter going to make highsec more homogenous? There is nothing "racially unique" about a trade hub. The racial trade hubs will still exist in the same way that Amarr is lesser to Jita.

here are the benefits:
0.0 alliances can reach the main hub quicker on average so resupplying/selling stuff takes less time.
Faction warfare will have a hub that isn't patrolled by faction NPCs as Yulai is in CONCORD space.
Suicide ganking will be boosted as more and more wealth flows through a smaller area of systems. Highsec officer spawns and overladen freighters go!
Travel times will be shortened.

Downsides:
Yulai will be a larger trade hub than Jita. Which really won't be a problem once "Brain in the Box" is done.
Ines Tegator
Serious Business Inc. Ltd. LLC. etc.
#34 - 2013-08-04 00:17:35 UTC
People who refer to highsec as trivial don't understand why people live there. It's not because it's easy; it's because it's predictable. Some people just prefer that kind of game.

Moving the hub more centrally won't change anything except autopilot routes.

Overhaul Dscan!
Commander Ted
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#35 - 2013-08-04 00:35:24 UTC
Ines Tegator wrote:
People who refer to highsec as trivial don't understand why people live there. It's not because it's easy; it's because it's predictable. Some people just prefer that kind of game.

Moving the hub more centrally won't change anything except autopilot routes.


So nothing would change? Your contradicting yourself.

The routes would be shorter, making things easier. Being predictable means that the same thing happens over and over, which is easy.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec.
Droidster
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#36 - 2013-08-04 01:08:12 UTC
Aliventi wrote:
[quote=Commander Ted]
...
Yulai will be a larger trade hub than Jita. Which really won't be a problem once "Brain in the Box" is done.


I disagree with this. If you read my post, note that in 2004 Yulai was proportionately SMALLER than Jita is now, even though it was a more interconnected nexus. CCP never had to shut the gates to Yulai the way they are doing to Jita now on busy weekends. The regional centers (Lustrevik/Rens, Jita, Oursulaert and Amarr) were much bigger than they are now.

Restoring Yulai would lead to better regional balance and less congestion.
Aliventi
Rattini Tribe
Minmatar Fleet Alliance
#37 - 2013-08-04 05:09:30 UTC
Droidster wrote:
Aliventi wrote:

...
Yulai will be a larger trade hub than Jita. Which really won't be a problem once "Brain in the Box" is done.


I disagree with this. If you read my post, note that in 2004 Yulai was proportionately SMALLER than Jita is now, even though it was a more interconnected nexus. CCP never had to shut the gates to Yulai the way they are doing to Jita now on busy weekends. The regional centers (Lustrevik/Rens, Jita, Oursulaert and Amarr) were much bigger than they are now.

Restoring Yulai would lead to better regional balance and less congestion.

Spare me if I don't put a lot of faith in how thing were in 2004 predicting how things will be in 2013.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#38 - 2013-08-04 07:19:00 UTC
Droidster wrote:
If you read my post, note that in 2004 Yulai was proportionately SMALLER than Jita is now, even though it was a more interconnected nexus.


In 2004, EVE had around 40,000 subscriptions.
Today, it has around 500,000 subscriptions and a Jita pop cap of around 2000.

Are you saying Yulai never saw more than 160 people in Local at once?

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#39 - 2013-08-04 07:40:17 UTC
You haven't actually explained why it would better anything...

Anyhow, not gonna happen, because not in the slightest necessary.

Dismissed.
Droidster
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#40 - 2013-08-04 15:28:39 UTC
Solstice Project wrote:
You haven't actually explained why it would better anything...

Anyhow, not gonna happen, because not in the slightest necessary.

Dismissed.


At the risk of responding to the nullsec PVP players who are just trolling in a matter that has little importance to them...

The reason why this is needed is two-fold:

- having the hub in Caldari space gives an unfair advantage to Caldari

- Jita is so busy that CCP is locking its gates during primetimes now, cutting off player's access to their goods in Jita

Both of these problems could be solved by simply going back to the way it was before.

Historical Footnote

As a historical footnote to this thread, newer players may be interested to know that back in 2004 when they cut the gates, CCP announced that this was going to be great because it would cause everyone to leave Yulai and go back to the regional hubs making EVE "the way it was supposed to be" with distinct racial federations. They imagined that cutting all the links to Yulai would just make everybody scatter and spread out. Of course, this is not what happened at all. Everybody moved to Jita and in fact it got worse, because Jita was more isolated, many people who had operated successfully in the regionals moved to Jita because they could no longer operate so far from the hub; this caused Jita to quickly become much larger than Yulai had ever been. It was obvious within a few weeks that the change had been a huge blunder, but it was not reversed. Some people are so proud that they are willing to let a wrong continue rather than admit they made a mistake and undo it.
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