EVE General Discussion

TL;DR: We can introduce a fleet formation system to encourage the proper positioning of ships to give more fast real time strategic aspects to the game, also set apart the unorganized dog-fighters from a well trained combat organization.


The Problem I Want to Attack:

It doesn't take a genius to notice that almost any organized fights of ships in EVE is nothing more than a bunch of ships tangled and shooting each other, and this is especially obvious once the scale of the fight goes up to tens, hundreds, or thousands of combatants. Things get chaotic and not after long ships are orbiting each other shooting at random directions, an observer can't actually tell what's going on.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying fleet/gang fights in EVE isn't strategic, in fact there are many strategy-heavy aspects to it including the use/manipulation of intelligence, identification of high value targets, execution of orders, etc. I just realized that a lot of the hard strategic work are done before the fight, for example how to fit the ships and what roles to have and who does what. There actually isn't much to do once the fight has started: tackle/jam targets, shoot primaries, watch for repair needs... Once the fight has started, position of ships doesn't really matter that much as long as you are aware of modules' range.

I'm sure I am not the only one who realized the vacuum of fast decision making during combat. Having these aspects can make the fight so much more fun and dramatic, including fast decision makings, fast execution of decisions and the outcome can be seen quickly enough right after a decision is made and executed.

This may not be the best solution, but I put together my thoughts and came up with the ---------- Fleet Formation System!!


The Solution

In order to change the chaotic situation during a fight, we can encourage the proper positioning of ships. For starters we can define some basic fleet formations. Following are some examples:

1. Fast Assault Formation: A squad of fast assault frigates forming a "V" shape advancing together, this can give the whole squad a speed bonus for closing the distance to the target, at the expense of slower turret tracking speed.

2. Short Range Focus Attack Formation: A squad of assault ships lining up with each other orbiting the same target, this gives them a bonus of reduced signature radius and a boost in dps as long as the whole squad is attacking the same target. Will apply a slight debuff on the speed of the squad.

3. Long Range Focus Attack Formation: Multiple long range attack ships forming an inverted "V" shape. The more ships attacking the same target, the higher additional damage that target will receive. This formation also gives a debuff on the speed of the whole group.

4. Point Defense Formation: A squad of ships staying at a fixed distance apart from each other, forming a multi-layer wall of ships. The more layers the incoming fire passes through in order to hit a target further within, the more the damage will be deducted. This formation is also good for bigger ships like battleships clustering together at a fixed range and activates smart bombs together, in order to counter drones/attack frigates trying to tear the defense from within. Gives debuff on weapon optimal range to ships further within the layer.

4. Logistically Enhanced (Attack/Defense) Formation: being within a certain distance to a logistic ship gives certain bonus to different stats for the whole squad. Thus it's always beneficial to put a logistic ship at the center of any formation.

The above are just some examples that I made up, the buff/debuff may not be balanced enough but I hope they communicate through the idea. Of course getting the ships into proper positions can be a lot of hassle using the current navigation methods, but we can let the commanders setup the formation that his unit will form, and the rest of the group will just simply choose their position and hit "enter formation" and the navigation is done automatically. And to accommodate the movement of all the ships in a formation, all ships cannot move faster than the slowest ship, and can only turn as fast as the slowest turning ship. If not overridden manually, the navigation of a whole formation will follow that of the commander. As a more advanced feature we can let the commanders create/edit their own formation.

Thus a fleet commander can order the whole fleet to form a certain formation, the wing/squad commanders can follow as part of the huge formation, or make their own decisions and break part functioning as their own formation.


Simulation

Now imagine in a fleet combat, the defending side is layering up using the point defense formation, with the longer range ships further within the layer (could be an ideal position for those BS-weaponized BC glass cannons) and logistic ships at the furthest, forming an unbreakable wall. The attacking side sends up squads of attacking frigates in fast attack formation trying to tear apart the defense network by attacking within it hoping to take out the glass cannons. Suddenly the defending ships activate their smart bombs, bombarding the frigates caught within into oblivion. While the attacking side forms up the long range focus attack formation, taking out the defending party one ship at a time...


Now sorry for posting such a long thread, from my previous experience long posting tend not to receive much attentions but I just can't help but share all I have in mind to make EVE even more amazing. Thoughts and critics?

Well thanks for your reply but may I hear the critic?

Well I don't know the exact specs that would make them work, those examples were just made up to show what the system might be.

Well the number of fleets can stay the same, pilots can still operate at a wing/squad level just as before. But surely adding complications will always increase the calculation load, either server side or client side.

Well aside from the point Alavaria already made about computation, any attempt to incur bonuses simply based on some sort of formation is just really gimmicky, no matter how you do it, and it deters from the things we already fly formations for, which is maintaining a strategic position on the battlefield, or keeping your fleet aligned to a bounce point or celestial, or keeping logistics near the friendly fleet but out of range of hostiles, or any number of other things that we already do.

Eve will then become a bit like Homeworld for FCs. That would be kind-of funny. But then, also kind-of pointless for the plebs. Might as well not be logged in.

All you really need for this to work (and still, formations are a good idea), is for the FC to be able to broadcast a formation and for you to be able to click a button to "approach" the assigned location when in fleet.

Sounds like you want to remove the "herding cats" feature of fleet command.

Features and Ideas forum is over there somewhere --->

(Too lazy to link it)

Formations make sense if you have to maintain LOS and fields of fire, and ensure you're pouring maximum power into a given firing zone without hitting any friendlies.

EVE does not have LOS or friendly fire.

It has to do that anyway. In fact, I would not be surprised if server load could be reduced, depending on how it is handled... similar to weapons grouping but in this case it applies to ship navigation/position.

There is some validity to this.

There are actually two ways to handle formations.
1: Allow a series of bonuses and drawbacks to flying in different formations.
2: Ignore the above and simply allow the natural advantages of being in an organized group to take effect.

The first example is what you propose. There is some merit to this as it would lend another layer to the strategy of the fight, one that would be just as important as the ship fittings your fleet requires. The draw back is adding a layer of contrived and some might say unrealistic complexity to the combat system.

The second example is not as powerful... and Soundwave himself is said he is unconvinced that the there would be any advantage to a formation (although he was willing to listen). However advantages like perfect placement of your logistics ship in your fleet, or the ordering of longer range glass cannons to the rear vs a firewall group closer to the enemy are self evident if more subtle.

I am a proponent of the 2nd option... for a variety of reasons, not the least of which being the impression that any given fan made EVE video gives to the public (potential subscribers) that EVE combat is nothing but a ball of mess.