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[Odyssey 1.1] Command Ships

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Moonlord
No.Mercy
Triumvirate.
#481 - 2013-08-02 04:00:23 UTC
These changes only makes sense if offgrid boosting is being removed. None will field these ships over a tech 3 offgrid booster (for the bonus) or navy bc's or hacs(for combat capabilities). These ships are a compromise of the 2 with no real edge.
Grow a pair and remove offgrid boosting. This will provide more interresting and transparent fights and also carve these ships a nieche.
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#482 - 2013-08-02 04:25:24 UTC
i'm afraid to look at T3 setups, because I dislike T3. and i might like them.

Help, I can't download EVE

President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub

PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
Kaal Redrum
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#483 - 2013-08-02 04:32:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Kaal Redrum
Quote:
Minmatar Battlecruiser skill bonuses:
10% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret damage (was 5% RoF)
7.5% bonus to shield boosting amount
Command Ships skill bonuses:
10%(+5) bonus to Medium Projectile Turret damage
10% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret falloff


You're nutting the Sleipnir from 18.06 effective Turrets to 15 ???

Or did you mean 10% RoF in the BC skill bonus (compared to current 5%)?
Cause even then with 5 turrets at CS5 it's still a nerf to 17.5 effective turrets vs 18.06

Or is my math off?

Old: (1.33 + 1.25) x 7 = 18.06
New, your current post: (1.5 + 1.5) x 5 = 15 [~17% dps nerf!!?]
New, what it should be?: (2 + 1.5) x 5 = 17.5 [~3% dps nerf]
Goldensaver
Maraque Enterprises
Just let it happen
#484 - 2013-08-02 04:41:11 UTC
Kaal Redrum wrote:
Quote:
Minmatar Battlecruiser skill bonuses:
10% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret damage (was 5% RoF)
7.5% bonus to shield boosting amount
Command Ships skill bonuses:
10%(+5) bonus to Medium Projectile Turret damage
10% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret falloff


You're nutting the Sleipnir from 18.06 effective Turrets to 15 ???

Or did you mean 10% RoF in the BC skill bonus (compared to current 5%)?
Cause even then with 5 turrets at CS5 it's still a nerf to 17.5 effective turrets vs 18.06

Or is my math off?

Old: (1.33 + 1.25) x 7 = 18.06
New, your current post: (1.5 + 1.5) x 5 = 15
New, what it should be?: (2 + 1.5) x 5 = 17.5

Old Sleipnir got 7*1.25/.75=11.666
New gets 5*1.5*1.5=11.25

The bonuses stack multiplicatively, not additively.
Leskit
Pure Victory
#485 - 2013-08-02 04:43:24 UTC
Kaal Redrum wrote:
Quote:
Minmatar Battlecruiser skill bonuses:
10% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret damage (was 5% RoF)
7.5% bonus to shield boosting amount
Command Ships skill bonuses:
10%(+5) bonus to Medium Projectile Turret damage
10% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret falloff


You're nutting the Sleipnir from 18.06 effective Turrets to 15 ???

Or did you mean 10% RoF in the BC skill bonus (compared to current 5%)?
Cause even then with 5 turrets at CS5 it's still a nerf to 17.5 effective turrets vs 18.06

Or is my math off?

Old: (1.33 + 1.25) x 7 = 18.06
New, your current post: (1.5 + 1.5) x 5 = 15 [~17% dps nerf!!?]
New, what it should be?: (2 + 1.5) x 5 = 17.5 [~3% dps nerf]


Math is off, see page 2:
CCP Fozzie wrote:

You can look at in terms of effective turrets.

Sleipnir goes from 11.6666 effective turrets to 11.25
Astarte goes from 10.9 effective turrets to 10
Abso stays at 10 effective turrets


I take it you didn't make it to page 2 before posting?
Goldensaver
Maraque Enterprises
Just let it happen
#486 - 2013-08-02 04:46:10 UTC
Moonlord wrote:
These changes only makes sense if offgrid boosting is being removed. None will field these ships over a tech 3 offgrid booster (for the bonus) or navy bc's or hacs(for combat capabilities). These ships are a compromise of the 2 with no real edge.
Grow a pair and remove offgrid boosting. This will provide more interresting and transparent fights and also carve these ships a nieche.

1: in this same patch Tech 3 boosting subs go from 5% per level to 2% per level.

2: they're working on removing off-grid boosting, but there's a lot of legacy code that they have to work through in order to do so. Also, apparently that code has a lot to do with lag, such as in Nita in particular. From what I have read though they do intend to force boosts on grid.
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#487 - 2013-08-02 04:58:22 UTC
what's the final difference between 2% T3 boosts and 3% CS boosts? I didn't completely understand that one.

Help, I can't download EVE

President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub

PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
Kane Fenris
NWP
#488 - 2013-08-02 05:00:53 UTC
i like the changes very much !

could you comment the changes behind this one?
(esp why this agility nerf?)
imho nighthawk as it is now its not good...
the only use ive seen was as a kiteing bc before hm nerf and before ABC's.
so im a little sceptical about the agility nerf esp with the buff to the ship looking like the smaller kind of buffs
(i may be wrong didnt no eft warrioring yet)

CCP Fozzie wrote:

Nighthawk:
Caldari Battlecruiser skill bonuses:
4% bonus to all Shield Resistances
10%(+5) bonus to heavy and heavy assault missile kinetic damage
Command Ships skill bonuses:
5% bonus to Heavy Assault and Heavy missile launcher rate of fire
5% bonus to Heavy Assault Missile and Heavy Missile explosion radius (was explosion velocity)
Fixed Bonus:
Can fit up to three Warfare Link modules, 15% bonus to strength of Siege Warfare and Information Warfare links
Slot layout: 7 H, 5 M, 5 L , 2 turrets (+1), 5 Launchers (-1)
Fittings: 825 PWG (+115), 550 CPU (-5)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 5500(+695) / 3200(-163) / 3700(-144)
Base shield resistances (EM/Therm/Kin/Exp): 0 / 80(+10) / 70(+7.5) / 50
Base armor resistances (EM/Therm/Kin/Exp): 50 / 86.25(+6.88) / 62.5(+9.38) / 10
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 2812(-187.5) / 625s(-41.7) / 4.5
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 140 / 0.65(+0.02) / 14810000(+800000) / 13.35s (+1.15)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 25 / 25
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 80km (+20) / 195 / 9(+1)
Sensor strength: 24 Gravimetric (+5)
Signature radius: 285
Cargo capacity: 700


Goldensaver
Maraque Enterprises
Just let it happen
#489 - 2013-08-02 05:08:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Goldensaver
Rain6637 wrote:
what's the final difference between 2% T3 boosts and 3% CS boosts? I didn't completely understand that one.

An approximately 4% difference in effectiveness at skill level 5 and a ~13% effectiveness difference at skill level 1 thanks to the change from per level to role bonus on Command Ships. But if the only purpose is to put it somewhere safe and boost, you'll take the cheaper one that boosts better, so the command ship.
This next patch they're nerfing the T3 from 25% at level 5 to 10% bonus at level 5.


Edit: to expand on this, I mean that in many cases where you're somewhere you control the field and can leave an OGB somewhere safe it's likely you'll use the CS because it's cheaper and provides better boost in addition to not requiring fantastic fitting skills and not gimping hard on the fit. The T3 however, despite providing less boosts will not be substantially worse and will have the option of being cloaky nullified. It will also be able to boost up to 3 different types of links.
Yun Kuai
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#490 - 2013-08-02 05:09:40 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:


Astarte:
Gallente Battlecruiser skill bonuses:
10%(+5) bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret damage
7.5% bonus to Armor Repairer effectiveness
Command Ships skill bonuses:
5% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret rate of fire (was damage)
10% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret falloff
Fixed Bonus:
Can fit up to three Warfare Link modules, 15% bonus to strength of Armored Warfare and Skirmish Warfare links
Slot layout: 7 H, 4 M, 6 L, 5 turrets (-2), 2 launchers (+2)
Fittings: 1350 PWG (-100), 440 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 3400(-444) / 4800(+476) / 5000(+195)
Base shield resistances (EM/Therm/Kin/Exp): 0 / 60(+10) / 85(+7.5) / 50
Base armor resistances (EM/Therm/Kin/Exp): 50 / 67.5(+8.13) / 83.75(+8.13) / 10
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 3000(+187.5) / 667s(+41.7) / 4.5
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 155 / 0.7(+0.03) / 12300000 (-950000) / 11.94s (-0.34)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 50 / 75(+25)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 75km (+20) / 200 / 8(+1)
Sensor strength: 23 Magnetometric (+5)
Signature radius: 300
Cargo capacity: 400


Eos:
Gallente Battlecruiser skill bonuses:
7.5% bonus to Armor Repairer effectiveness
10% bonus to drone damage and hitpoints (was 5% MHT damage)
Command Ships skill bonuses:
7.5% bonus to Heavy Drone tracking and microwarp velocity (was drone bay bonus)
7.5% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret tracking (was link bonus)
Fixed Bonus:
Can fit up to three Warfare Link modules, 15% bonus to strength of Armored Warfare and Skirmish Warfare links
Slot layout: 6 H (-1), 4 M, 6 L, 4 turrets (-1)
Fittings: 1200 PWG (-225), 425 CPU (-25)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 3600(-244) / 4600(+276) / 5200(+395)
Base shield resistances (EM/Therm/Kin/Exp): 0 / 60 / 85 / 50
Base armor resistances (EM/Therm/Kin/Exp): 50 / 67.5 / 83.75 / 10
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 2812 / 625s / 4.5
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 145 / 0.704 / 13000000(-250000) / 12.69s (-0.24)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 125 (+50) / 250 (+100)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 65km (+10) / 200 / 8(+1)
Sensor strength: 22 Magnetometric (+4)
Signature radius: 300
Cargo capacity: 400


Okay a first one thing about the Astarte:

Did no one stop and think about the effects of changing the damage bonus to ROF on the Astarte? So now our high ROF hybrids, high cap using hybrids, high cap using warfare links, and wait for it......******* ridiculous amount of cap used for local reps....seriously go **** yourself CCP. Quit making Gallente ships suck. To angry about this to be polite.


And now about the Eos::

If you're going to force the Eos to just use heavy drones due to the bonuses, why do we continue to make it so we can pop drones with a couple smart bombs? If you're fielding a CS, there's a high chance you're engaging BS. So again, why are Gallente stuck with ships that can have all of their DPS taken out in 15 secs? Bump that drone HP bonus up!

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Akturous
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#491 - 2013-08-02 05:13:46 UTC
The EOS hybrid bonus is a waste of time, with only 4 damage unbonused turrets, I really think that bonus is completely lost. Perhaps 5%/lvl to armour hp, that would do very nicely.

Vote Item Heck One for CSM8
Klingon Admiral
Carcinisation
#492 - 2013-08-02 05:24:29 UTC
Akturous wrote:
The EOS hybrid bonus is a waste of time, with only 4 damage unbonused turrets, I really think that bonus is completely lost. Perhaps 5%/lvl to armour hp, that would do very nicely.


Armor HP bonus does not correlate with the Gallente races racial tanking cotrine, which is active armor.
Lady Naween
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#493 - 2013-08-02 05:26:42 UTC
Klingon Admiral wrote:
Akturous wrote:
The EOS hybrid bonus is a waste of time, with only 4 damage unbonused turrets, I really think that bonus is completely lost. Perhaps 5%/lvl to armour hp, that would do very nicely.


Armor HP bonus does not correlate with the Gallente races racial tanking cotrine, which is active armor.


so therefor their ships must be ****.. you dont see their hic having an active tanking bonus do you? so why must their CS do?
Akturous
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#494 - 2013-08-02 05:28:20 UTC
Klingon Admiral wrote:
Akturous wrote:
The EOS hybrid bonus is a waste of time, with only 4 damage unbonused turrets, I really think that bonus is completely lost. Perhaps 5%/lvl to armour hp, that would do very nicely.


Armor HP bonus does not correlate with the Gallente races racial tanking cotrine, which is active armor.


This isn't role play online, who gives a toss.

Vote Item Heck One for CSM8
Klingon Admiral
Carcinisation
#495 - 2013-08-02 05:32:26 UTC
Lady Naween wrote:
Klingon Admiral wrote:
Akturous wrote:
The EOS hybrid bonus is a waste of time, with only 4 damage unbonused turrets, I really think that bonus is completely lost. Perhaps 5%/lvl to armour hp, that would do very nicely.


Armor HP bonus does not correlate with the Gallente races racial tanking cotrine, which is active armor.


so therefor their ships must be ****.. you dont see their hic having an active tanking bonus do you? so why must their CS do?


Weren't HICs part of the last batch of T2 ships introduced, with Marauder iirc? The bonuses this ships have are all over the place tbh ... Caldari ships with TP bonus, Amarrian/Gallente hulls with webs.

And above that the Phobos is a Roden ship, which generally seem to follow a rather ... eccentric choice of bonuses.
Dave Stark
#496 - 2013-08-02 05:33:02 UTC
As some one who flies command ships exclusively for the links and nothing more. Making the link bonus a flat 15% rather than 3% per CS level makes me feel a tad cheated. I'd much rather have spent the month CS V took in order to train other skills if I knew it was going to be changed. I'd not have bothered and spent the 30 days on some other skills since it finished training about a week ago.

That said, everything else looks like a solid set of changes.
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#497 - 2013-08-02 05:36:51 UTC
Goldensaver wrote:
Rain6637 wrote:
what's the final difference between 2% T3 boosts and 3% CS boosts? I didn't completely understand that one.

An approximately 4% difference in effectiveness at skill level 5 and a ~13% effectiveness difference at skill level 1 thanks to the change from per level to role bonus on Command Ships. But if the only purpose is to put it somewhere safe and boost, you'll take the cheaper one that boosts better, so the command ship.
This next patch they're nerfing the T3 from 25% at level 5 to 10% bonus at level 5.


Edit: to expand on this, I mean that in many cases where you're somewhere you control the field and can leave an OGB somewhere safe it's likely you'll use the CS because it's cheaper and provides better boost in addition to not requiring fantastic fitting skills and not gimping hard on the fit. The T3 however, despite providing less boosts will not be substantially worse and will have the option of being cloaky nullified. It will also be able to boost up to 3 different types of links.

thanks. i ask because i can't seem to get EFT or Pyfa to manually reflect the upcoming changes. I'll probably go ahead and make myself exactly that--cloaky nullified versions.

the initial perception is "omg 30% worse" but when the highest percentages are in the modules now... I wonder if being hardheaded about hating on T3 is something I should stop.

thanks again.

Help, I can't download EVE

President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub

PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
Trifle Donier
Sham Rocks Incorporated
#498 - 2013-08-02 06:12:17 UTC
Cethion wrote:
I'm happy to see that command ships are getting some love and rebalancing. It seems that the Astarte will now put out more dps than a Proteus, which is pretty exciting and worrisome. I'm also looking forward to trying out the new Absolution.


Uhh... you realise the Astarte is actually getting a fairly hefty dps nerf, right? Not sure why you're acting like its getting a buff...
Alexander McKeon
Perkone
Caldari State
#499 - 2013-08-02 06:14:06 UTC
This will actually be a rather nice change for PvE; it will now be very feasible to bring a Nighthawk along to provide defensive gang links without sacrificing DPS overly much. For pve gangs of four to ten T3s out killing red crosses, the extra resists will come in very handy; getting alpha'd down to 1/3 shields is never a fun feeling.
Trifle Donier
Sham Rocks Incorporated
#500 - 2013-08-02 06:15:18 UTC
Yun Kuai wrote:

Okay a first one thing about the Astarte:

Did no one stop and think about the effects of changing the damage bonus to ROF on the Astarte? So now our high ROF hybrids, high cap using hybrids, high cap using warfare links, and wait for it......******* ridiculous amount of cap used for local reps....seriously go **** yourself CCP. Quit making Gallente ships suck. To angry about this to be polite.


It has 2 less turrets, so the new Astarte should use slightly less cap shooting guns than the old Astarte. Which isn't to say that its got plenty of spare cap or anything, just that its not changing much.