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[Odyssey 1.1] Command Ships

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Edward Pierce
State War Academy
Caldari State
#441 - 2013-08-01 23:17:50 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
CCP Fozzie suggest shield boost amount because it matches up nicely with other Minmatar ships, provides some fun new potential, and is relatively low risk because of its small impact at larger scales.

You already got quoted by CCP Rise saying the shield boost amount has a small impact at larger scales, and yet you still give these ships whose entire purpose is to grant benefits in larger scales this weaker bonus?

Can we please address this disparity between local rep bonus and resist bonus already? It keeps being put off and it has affected every re-balancing effort except Cruisers and Destroyers. Stop kicking the can and do something about it already.
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#442 - 2013-08-01 23:26:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Rain6637
Aglais, i don't know much and so/but I think the PG limitation is to keep players from fitting something. like an XL ASB or something

oh, wait. i know why. because launchers take less PG, so basically the command ship pilots are making a mistake by trying to use a missile command ship as a command ship.

it would seem the nighthawk will be for caldari high sec mission runners who want to impress their friends and also help the mission gang by fitting a resist link while everyone is killing gurista npcs.

****.

Help, I can't download EVE

President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub

PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
Hortoken Wolfbrother
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#443 - 2013-08-01 23:26:56 UTC
Edward Pierce wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:
CCP Fozzie suggest shield boost amount because it matches up nicely with other Minmatar ships, provides some fun new potential, and is relatively low risk because of its small impact at larger scales.

You already got quoted by CCP Rise saying the shield boost amount has a small impact at larger scales, and yet you still give these ships whose entire purpose is to grant benefits in larger scales this weaker bonus?

Can we please address this disparity between local rep bonus and resist bonus already? It keeps being put off and it has affected every re-balancing effort except Cruisers and Destroyers. Stop kicking the can and do something about it already.

Exactly. Needs to be repeated. Active bonuses are useless for large fleets. Its fine to put it on one ship from the races, but putting it on both ships is really a dumb decision.
Iam Widdershins
Project Nemesis
#444 - 2013-08-01 23:31:22 UTC
Draekas Darkwater wrote:
I don't fly in large fleets, but I do keep reading about them. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the trend I see is that as fleet fights get larger, and alpha becomes more impossible to tank, the tactic of blapping FCs off the field at the outset of any battle gets more popular.

Its easy to understand WHY its being done, but is it good for the game? Seems to me FCs have enough on thier plates just herding the sheep that there should be some kind of dedicated C&C ship for them to fly. One that has insane HPs, excellent EWAR resistance or immunity and long lock range. They also need to be mobile/agil enough to stick with the fleet its flying in, so perhaps multiple flavours of such a ship is required (frig/cruiser/BC/BS/Cap?).

For obvious reasons they'd have to be pretty annemic at anything except FCing (no highs maybe? or one to get on KMs).

While these changes look pretty nice from a small gang/fleet perspective, Its going to be pretty hard to command from a pod if the trend continues as EVE grows.

FCing the battle and flying a command ship are very different things. Just because you're giving boosts to the fleet doesn't mean you get to tell them what to do.

Lobbying for your right to delete your signature
Drake Doe
88Th Tax Haven
#445 - 2013-08-01 23:38:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Drake Doe
Want to trade: Nighthawk for a Claymore or Damnation

Edit: I'm serious! I don't want it since I can fly the better missile boats.

"The homogenization of EVE began when Gallente and Caldari started sharing a weapon system."---Vermaak Doe-- "Ohh squabbles ohh I love my dust trolls like watching an episode of Maury with less " Is he my Dad " but more of " My Neighbor took a dump on my lawn " good episode! pops more corn" ---Evernub--
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#446 - 2013-08-01 23:41:36 UTC
Lady Naween
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#447 - 2013-08-01 23:43:55 UTC
Rain6637 wrote:
yesterday. or: before I heard there would be navy mindlinks


its in the other thread

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3426016
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#448 - 2013-08-01 23:44:30 UTC
Heribeck Weathers
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#449 - 2013-08-01 23:49:37 UTC
Rain6637 wrote:
my picture?


Lol Rain your such a troll

Anyway I kinda wonder why CCP Fozzie didnt make that last dev post conferming the CS model changes, he puts 3 out in one day and leave one as a suprise? even tho we have a failry good idea what it is. Seams fishy, unless hes trying to wait for art department to give him some shots of them.
Varesk
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#450 - 2013-08-01 23:50:45 UTC
Please get rid of the active tanking and give buffer instead. The active tanks will just make the ship weaker and not able to receive reps. if you give it a buffer, at least there will be a chance that you can get reps and live.
Lady Naween
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#451 - 2013-08-01 23:52:30 UTC
Rain6637 wrote:
my picture?


sorry your pic is still hanging over my bed
Tore Vest
#452 - 2013-08-01 23:59:41 UTC
I beleve that any cmd ship in a fleet will be fitted with so mutch tank as possible...
While highslot will have links, probelauncher, and one or two gunns for km-whoring.

I cant imagine a cmd ship as a high dps ship... unless in a small gang fleet maby....

Active tank is a waste... and many will try to fit those ships with passive tank.... untill they have been one-vollyed of the field enough times to be seen useless.

Looking forward to try out those new cmd ships tho P

No troll.
Draekas Darkwater
Frank Exchange of Views
#453 - 2013-08-02 00:11:27 UTC
Iam Widdershins wrote:
Draekas Darkwater wrote:
I don't fly in large fleets, but I do keep reading about them. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the trend I see is that as fleet fights get larger, and alpha becomes more impossible to tank, the tactic of blapping FCs off the field at the outset of any battle gets more popular.

Its easy to understand WHY its being done, but is it good for the game? Seems to me FCs have enough on thier plates just herding the sheep that there should be some kind of dedicated C&C ship for them to fly. One that has insane HPs, excellent EWAR resistance or immunity and long lock range. They also need to be mobile/agil enough to stick with the fleet its flying in, so perhaps multiple flavours of such a ship is required (frig/cruiser/BC/BS/Cap?).

For obvious reasons they'd have to be pretty annemic at anything except FCing (no highs maybe? or one to get on KMs).

While these changes look pretty nice from a small gang/fleet perspective, Its going to be pretty hard to command from a pod if the trend continues as EVE grows.

FCing the battle and flying a command ship are very different things. Just because you're giving boosts to the fleet doesn't mean you get to tell them what to do.


Obviously. The whole command ship name is basically a misnomer, they aren't command ships, they're fleet booster ships.

Yet Fozzie still mentioned that they are popular among FCs for thier resiliance. T3s are as well for the same reason. I simply mention that in today's EVE, and the EVE of the future where fleets keep getting larger, perhaps there is need for a real C&C ship to service the real FCs in EVE. Something you can reliably command a large fleet in, without it being a solo pwnmobile or blapped off the field.
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#454 - 2013-08-02 00:12:55 UTC
the nighthawk's stats look great in EFT if i give it boosts from another nighthawk

Help, I can't download EVE

President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub

PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#455 - 2013-08-02 00:17:10 UTC
Command Ships V just became my favourite skill

Eos, my precious new baby <3

.
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#456 - 2013-08-02 00:22:40 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:

Command Ship model changes


so much awesome Shocked

.
Bouh Revetoile
In Wreck we thrust
#457 - 2013-08-02 00:23:40 UTC
Draekas Darkwater wrote:
Obviously. The whole command ship name is basically a misnomer, they aren't command ships, they're fleet booster ships.

Yet Fozzie still mentioned that they are popular among FCs for thier resiliance. T3s are as well for the same reason. I simply mention that in today's EVE, and the EVE of the future where fleets keep getting larger, perhaps there is need for a real C&C ship to service the real FCs in EVE. Something you can reliably command a large fleet in, without it being a solo pwnmobile or blapped off the field.

Actually, the only way for a FC to survive a blob now is a capital ship. Giving more and more hp to comand ship for the sake of them surviving a blob focused fire can only lead to absurd things or this capital comand ship solution.
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#458 - 2013-08-02 00:24:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Rain6637
I give up, I don't know how to fit this nighthawk. it's beautiful, but it's going to be two claymores for me.

two link type bonuses is a nice thought, but I just can't squeeze full links onto one ship. with tank. and I won't limit myself to fewer than full links--it's an edge/and you can't expect me to not use the whole knife

I'm seeing a beautiful, 135k ehp claymore with two invulns, three LSEs and two MCDFEs. and that's just T2

I will not be using any of these bonuses:

Minmatar Battlecruiser skill bonuses:
5% bonus to Heavy Missile and Heavy Assault Missile rate of fire (was MPT RoF)
7.5% bonus to shield boosting amount
Command Ships skill bonuses:
5% bonus to Heavy Missile and Heavy Assault Missile rate of fire (was link bonus)
5% bonus to Heavy Missile and Heavy Assault Missile explosion velocity (was MPT tracking)

Help, I can't download EVE

President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub

PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
Baron vonDoom
Scorn.
#459 - 2013-08-02 00:31:29 UTC
Rethorical question just for reassurance: Those are just the provisory changes for Odissey 1.1 and related changes to that half-hearted first step to fix everything that's wrong with boosting these days, not the ship rebalance in itself which will properly happen in a later iteration.

c/d?
Sigras
Conglomo
#460 - 2013-08-02 00:34:20 UTC
It occurs to me that you guys are trying to make command ships a bit more fun to fly because sitting in a POS giving boosts isnt really fun.

However it seems you went with a generalized design instead of a specialized design. If it were me, id design a ship that actual fleet commanders want to use.

This would be my FC command ship example

Dedicated Command Ship
Damnation:
Amarr Battlecruiser skill bonuses:
4% bonus to all Armor Resistances
+5 max locked targets per level
Command Ships skill bonuses:
10% bonus to all Armor hitpoints
3% bonus to effectiveness of Armored and Information Warfare Links per level

Role Bonus: Immune to Electronic Sensor Effects (E-war, Sensor Dampening, remote sensor boosting), Can fit up to three Warfare Link modules

Slot layout: 6 H (-1), 3 M (-1), 8 L (+2) , 0 turrets (-4), 0 Launchers (-5)
Fittings: 1200(-390) PWG, 500(+25) CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 3500(+37) / 6000(+1395) / 4300(-24)
Base shield resistances (EM/Therm/Kin/Exp): 0 / 20 / 70 / 87.5
Base armor resistances (EM/Therm/Kin/Exp): 50 / 35 / 62.5 / 80
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 3375 / 750s / 4.5
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 120 (-30) / 0.7(-0.004) / 11500000 (+1000000) / 18.18s(+5.0)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 0 (-25) / 0 (-25)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 150km (+100) / 210 / 7(+1)
Sensor strength: 22 Radar (+6)
Signature radius: 265
Cargo capacity: 645

If you required boosters to be on grid, this would be the ideal fleet command ship. I would even have considered moving a large portion of the link's effectiveness over to the command ship hull instead of the link specialization skill in order to encourage people using these things in combat instead of aligned out at 200 km

This would be a great ship for the FC to fly allowing him to keep tabs on his fleet from one end of the grid to the other without worrying about disruption; also with 2 resist bonuses and 8 tank slots this thing is going to be around for a while. The trade off being that this ship is about the speed and agility of a battleship.