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Why the PVE of the game is so bad?

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Onquaber
Back To High-sec Inc.
#181 - 2013-07-12 01:43:49 UTC
Well, CCP spent a lot of $ in another game.

I didn't said its an easy task but, come on, 10 years with the same pve mechanic is a little to much. There are lots of low budget games which are fun.

CCP added some good expansions, wormholes, Incursion, Odyssey. They need to continue with that trend.
Ban Bindy
Bindy Brothers Pottery Association
True Reign
#182 - 2013-07-12 01:51:08 UTC
Ace Uoweme wrote:
Talon SilverHawk wrote:
Nope it will mean more idiotic threads for the ppl arguing the opposite, the thing I would like to be able to miss is the increasing self righteous drivel that comes from the "we know better than you crowd in these forums."


Ask them which games that they played before, and ask them what happened to them after they ruined it with very niche ideas?

Rhetoric seen here is seen in EQII and in WoW (especially on the PvP forums) and countless other game forums. Control freaks wanting to control how the game is developed THEIR way. If the game dies, they blame the publishers or some other easy victim -- casuals or PvE players.

Games are a working relationship with devs and players. Devs have their job to do and players offer feedback on their job, as they're paying for a service. When some players want to dictate content, they make the world smaller for everyone, including them. If devs fall for this feedback, they fall victim to the ever constant need for "make my toon better; make me fight harder; make me make gold easier" schemes. Innovation takes a back seat for "mememe" (and you bet the same players tell others they are the "self-entitled").

PvE isn't a problem, it's working as intended. Same as PvP.

The problem is when one group wants to overtake the other group. This was seen in Cata in WoW over raiders vs casuals vs PvPers. 10% of the overall population (even Blizzard came back confirming this) who crowd forums about their only real reason in playing a game, whining about how the game is destroyed because some PvPer got a buff (or vice versa). Meanwhile, casuals are looking for means to play the game without 15hr raid nights 7 days a week. PvPers are groaning because they can't pewpewpew healers (who are designed to heal) and decided to go James mode with Healers Have to Die addons. Then wonder where all the healers went, because being the #1 target isn't fun...and now THEY are dying like flies.

...Yeah, seen this stuff a-l-l before...


You're making far too much sense for these forums. Please stop or I will have to file a petition.
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
#183 - 2013-07-12 01:53:30 UTC  |  Edited by: raven666wings
Sentamon wrote:

Focus should always on giving players the tools and freedom to create the content.


But of course! Gives us the tools so we can create content!

Where is my blowtorch to cut the door open from my CQ into the station? Wheres my drop ship to go fly into a planet, drop some nukes on Duster's heads and get lost in the landscape? Where is the new race character creator so i can create some characters out of it and write their own lore? Where is the npc/mission editor tool so i can create some challenging ones? Where is the ship and module invention designer so I can create some more? Yes.. Yes.. if you refuse to create content give us the tools to do it... I agree with you on this! lol

bro how many posts more will it take you to understand no one gives a **** bout ur blob
Ban Bindy
Bindy Brothers Pottery Association
True Reign
#184 - 2013-07-12 02:09:30 UTC
Verunae Caseti wrote:
Missions, mining, and other activities in null and low sec is still PvP.


When your definition of PVP becomes this broad, you will of course win the argument. But you will have defined PVP so broadly that it is a category without meaning. If there's any point in what you're saying, it's that it is not easy to define a border between PvE and PvP in this game, which is a good thing.

If I use your logic, developing PvE is simply developing PvP in a different way. Everything in EVE is PvP, isn't that what you said? So in that case there is no reason to resist devoting additional resources to PvE since, in the EVE context, it will all turn to PvP anyway.

Debate makes no difference. CCP does indeed continue to develop PvE and to evolve it. Tweaking the ice mining system, changing ore balances, ship rebalancing (which affects PvE and PvP). The last major addition to PvE, other than the new missions from last year, was incursions.

By its nature, the PvE content wears thin while the PvP does not. And PvE in Eve is limited in that it must be done in spaceships. Hard to tell immersive stories about spaceships.
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
#185 - 2013-08-01 23:03:24 UTC
Verunae Caseti wrote:
Onquaber wrote:
Since when new content ruins the game?.


When it takes designers and engineers away from developing PvP content.

When players demand that it be "balanced" and offer similar rewards to PvP.

Go look at PvP in WoW and ask that question again. Except you will already know the answer.

EVE is a PvP game. If you want PvE content go play a PvE game or one of the watered-down mainstream PvE/PvP hybrids of which there are many.


So you're saying that the reason for which the lazy and empty-minded CCP dev team doesnt develop and improve the PVE of the game is because EVE is a PVP game, and not because they lack the vision, creativity and pro-activity to do it.
And you're trying to trash games which PVP mechanics rely on player skill to win battles, with balanced character skill and attribute fights, instead of what you call "balanced EVE PVP" (dice-rolls between characters with different skill point ammount and ship fittings,team member numbers and compostions).
Plus according to your rationale, what makes EVE so great for you and for many people is the fact that when you're defeated in confrontation, your losses will hurt you because you will have to PVE to get back to PVP, instead of PVP'ing all the time with infinite supply of equipment.
Wait a minute.. I thought what you wanted was PVP all the time and this was why EVE was so good for you... now i'm confused...
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
#186 - 2013-08-01 23:06:35 UTC
Inb4 "But EVE PVE is PVP too" answer
Bad Messenger
Rehabilitation Clinic
#187 - 2013-08-01 23:14:51 UTC
as you said some people do PVE just to fund their PVP.

Maybe it is not ment to be forever grinding game after all, personally i think EVE is more social game than anything else.

I think it is just good that PVE is boring so it is punishment for you to lose too much ships.
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#188 - 2013-08-01 23:16:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Herzog Wolfhammer
Onquaber wrote:
Mining, missions, anomalies, all boring activities. I didn't any incursions yet but they seem like more difficult missions and always the same.

You will say its a pvp game, ok. If no one mines, do missions or kill rats there will be no economy so no pvp.

Many people do the boring stuff to finance their pvp.

I've tried FW and it was fun, a pve/pvp mix. But there should be more things to do in high low and null sec.

Why the pve cant be fun?






The PVe is bad because the PVP is good.

But exploration can be exciting nonetheless when you don't know what to expect.


PVP by itself can pay off depending on two things:

1. How expensive you fly.
2. Whether or not you suffer from stupid ship loss syndrome.



First, if you don't fly super expensive, a little ISK can go a long way. If you run say 1 level 4 mission, that can amount to 5 or 6 destroyers fit to to tune of 5-6M ISK each. If you just have to have all T2 "everything" with T2 Rigs and/or faction/pirate hulls, that's going to cost you. I see a lot of people getting into the "bigger gun" trap. This gives a lot of people who have yet to PVP the impression that that they need to amass billions of ISK and lots of SP too, and that's one of the contributing factors to this disease of people grinding away for years in highsec waiting for the day they can go to null. (Then, having partaken of this holy grail, it's importance thus inflated by anticipation spanning such a long time, end up extremely disappointed).

Second, how do you lose ships? I have seen a lot of people complain about losing ships in PVP a lot, even in fleet, then having to grind ISK to finance the PVP. While it's said that you should never fly what you cannot replace (see item 1 for the caveat), how often do you have to replace? If you find yourself in constant attrition warfare where ship loss is the outcome just about every time, you have to rethink how you fly or who you are flying for (and if they have at least a T1 ship replacement program).

For example, when a crazy group of highsec carebears decided to start roaming in nullsec, I supplied them with a large number of T1 frigates and destroyers expecting them to die a lot.

Die they did, for a few weeks, but as their skills and actual experience increased, and as they developed tactics for more staying power (not jumping into being outnumbered and a better feel of when to run off) , they stopped losing ships. As a result, there are still scores of these T1 hulls laying around.

Another example I can give is, how on one day I came across a faction frigate wreck in nullsec that had a deadspace module that was worth 30 million ISK. That's roughly what one may get from one of the mid-level L4 missions. As I mentioned before, if I had to fly "T2 everything" down to the rigs, this lucky find would be a drop in the bucket. Most T2 frigate hulls cost less than that 30M ISK module.

Exploration is probably the best way to finance PVP. Lots of nullsec is empty, even lowsec too. If you want to spank and gank but don't want to grind for it, bring some core probes on your roam and give a little check of the system when you find an empty one. You might hit a site and pull in 10s of millions of ISK in less than half an hour. If you don't fly too expensive and are good at keeping ships alive, you could probably finance PVP with one good exploration find a week.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Bad Messenger
Rehabilitation Clinic
#189 - 2013-08-01 23:19:01 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Onquaber wrote:
Mining, missions, anomalies, all boring activities. I didn't any incursions yet but they seem like more difficult missions and always the same.

You will say its a pvp game, ok. If no one mines, do missions or kill rats there will be no economy so no pvp.

Many people do the boring stuff to finance their pvp.

I've tried FW and it was fun, a pve/pvp mix. But there should be more things to do in high low and null sec.

Why the pve cant be fun?






The PVe is bad because the PVP is good.

But exploration can be exciting nonetheless when you don't know what to expect.


PVP by itself can pay off depending on two things:

1. How expensive you fly.
2. Whether or not you suffer from stupid ship loss syndrome.



First, if you don't fly super expensive, a little ISK can go a long way. If you run say 1 level 4 mission, that can amount to 5 or 6 destroyers fit to to tune of 5-6M ISK each. If you just have to have all T2 "everything" with T2 Rigs and/or faction/pirate hulls, that's going to cost you. I see a lot of people getting into the "bigger gun" trap.

Second, how do you lose ships? I have seen a lot of people complain about losing ships in PVP a lot, even in fleet, then having to grind ISK to finance the PVP. While it's said that you should never fly what you cannot replace (see item 1 for the caveat), how often do you have to replace? If you find yourself in constant attrition warfare where ship loss is the outcome just about every time, you have to rethink how you fly or who you are flying for (and if they have at least a T1 ship replacement program).

For example, when a crazy group of highsec carebears decided to start roaming in nullsec, I supplied them with a large number of T1 frigates and destroyers expecting them to die a lot.

Die they did, for a few weeks, but as their skills and actual experience increased, and as they developed tactics for more staying power (not jumping into being outnumbered and a better feel of when to run off) , they stopped losing ships. As a result, there are still scores of these T1 hulls laying around.

Another example I can give is, how on one day I came across a faction frigate wreck in nullsec that had a deadspace module that was worth 30 million ISK. That's roughly what one may get from one of the mid-level L4 missions. As I mentioned before, if I had to fly "T2 everything" down to the rigs, this lucky find would be a drop in the bucket. Most T2 frigate hulls cost less than that 30M ISK module.

Exploration is probably the best way to finance PVP. Lots of nullsec is empty, even lowsec too. If you want to spank and gank but don't want to grind for it, bring some core probes on your roam and give a little check of the system when you find an empty one. You might hit a site and pull in 10s of millions of ISK in less than half an hour. If you don't fly too expensive and are good at keeping ships alive, you could probably finance PVP with one good exploration find a week.



i rather play some indie games than CCP antibot exploration minigame.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#190 - 2013-08-01 23:21:12 UTC
Ban Bindy wrote:
By its nature, the PvE content wears thin while the PvP does not. And PvE in Eve is limited in that it must be done in spaceships. Hard to tell immersive stories about spaceships.

Your crewmen that died when those rats exploded your dominix wouldn't think that.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#191 - 2013-08-01 23:22:31 UTC
Bad Messenger wrote:
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Onquaber wrote:
Mining, missions, anomalies, all boring activities. I didn't any incursions yet but they seem like more difficult missions and always the same.

You will say its a pvp game, ok. If no one mines, do missions or kill rats there will be no economy so no pvp.

Many people do the boring stuff to finance their pvp.

I've tried FW and it was fun, a pve/pvp mix. But there should be more things to do in high low and null sec.

Why the pve cant be fun?






The PVe is bad because the PVP is good.

But exploration can be exciting nonetheless when you don't know what to expect.


PVP by itself can pay off depending on two things:

1. How expensive you fly.
2. Whether or not you suffer from stupid ship loss syndrome.



First, if you don't fly super expensive, a little ISK can go a long way. If you run say 1 level 4 mission, that can amount to 5 or 6 destroyers fit to to tune of 5-6M ISK each. If you just have to have all T2 "everything" with T2 Rigs and/or faction/pirate hulls, that's going to cost you. I see a lot of people getting into the "bigger gun" trap.

Second, how do you lose ships? I have seen a lot of people complain about losing ships in PVP a lot, even in fleet, then having to grind ISK to finance the PVP. While it's said that you should never fly what you cannot replace (see item 1 for the caveat), how often do you have to replace? If you find yourself in constant attrition warfare where ship loss is the outcome just about every time, you have to rethink how you fly or who you are flying for (and if they have at least a T1 ship replacement program).

For example, when a crazy group of highsec carebears decided to start roaming in nullsec, I supplied them with a large number of T1 frigates and destroyers expecting them to die a lot.

Die they did, for a few weeks, but as their skills and actual experience increased, and as they developed tactics for more staying power (not jumping into being outnumbered and a better feel of when to run off) , they stopped losing ships. As a result, there are still scores of these T1 hulls laying around.

Another example I can give is, how on one day I came across a faction frigate wreck in nullsec that had a deadspace module that was worth 30 million ISK. That's roughly what one may get from one of the mid-level L4 missions. As I mentioned before, if I had to fly "T2 everything" down to the rigs, this lucky find would be a drop in the bucket. Most T2 frigate hulls cost less than that 30M ISK module.

Exploration is probably the best way to finance PVP. Lots of nullsec is empty, even lowsec too. If you want to spank and gank but don't want to grind for it, bring some core probes on your roam and give a little check of the system when you find an empty one. You might hit a site and pull in 10s of millions of ISK in less than half an hour. If you don't fly too expensive and are good at keeping ships alive, you could probably finance PVP with one good exploration find a week.



i rather play some indie games than CCP antibot exploration minigame.



Then go to Plan B: wait for someone else to finish the minigame, and then blow the ship up and take the loot. That I think is the reason why they made the minigame. It's now up to all those who hate the minigame but want to PVP to use PVP to get the same loot. Twisted




Bring back DEEEEP Space!
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
#192 - 2013-08-01 23:34:17 UTC
I'm still confused.. you hate PVE and want PVP all the time, but seem to enjoy having to run more sites/missions or mine more moons and wait for more ships to build... Does this mean you like PVE too??? What?
Johan Civire
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#193 - 2013-08-02 00:46:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Johan Civire
Here we go again.

1 - Back when eve was on the table eve is design for pvp sins alpha.
Eve do 1 thing right and thats kicking everyone butt in space. Even the veterans out there.

2 - Eve was not mend to play friendly with open rules and sandbox style
Eve is the same sins alpha. And the have never change it

3 - PVE is later implant why? Because ccp wants to get more money and more people. The game was back then to hard
Eve is still a hard game but the have made some change the "null" sec with security systems for the new players high sec.

4 - PVE is a tool to learn the basic of the game (get use to controls how to escape what to do in some cases enc) not the die hard farm world of warcraft style.

Eve is not design to do dungeons all day long.

5 - CCP implant more pve jobs like DED`s discovery mining and go on.
The implant is design to get more jobs for different people, like in the real world not every one like the same job.

6 - How bad it sounds for all of you people out there. EVE is design to just pvp blow up ships and to build it up then sell it and destroyed it thats all what the mean purpose is for this game. A true hardcore PVP game. Thats all.

And thats from a pve player. I agree the are boring but you can do whatever you want there a more jobs to do. Even in nullsec you can do pve content if you want to. Just go outside do more stop ship spinning in station.
Pepper Swift
Perkone
Caldari State
#194 - 2013-08-02 02:03:20 UTC
but i like the pve :(

What I need most.. is a day between Saturday and Sunday...

If life gives you melons, you might be dyslexic
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
#195 - 2013-08-02 02:49:59 UTC
Ok so you mean to tell me you like doing PVE, but want it to remain bad... is this it?
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
#196 - 2013-08-02 02:50:25 UTC  |  Edited by: raven666wings
Ok i think i understand you now

Oh wait but this dont make sense too lolol

Maybe you like the PVE and want it to be good, but are just unable to make it so... yes this makes more sense to me
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
#197 - 2013-08-02 07:45:44 UTC  |  Edited by: raven666wings
Bad Messenger wrote:
as you said some people do PVE just to fund their PVP.

Maybe it is not ment to be forever grinding game after all, personally i think EVE is more social game than anything else.

I think it is just good that PVE is boring so it is punishment for you to lose too much ships.


Dude you're looking to get social in EVE? I almost feel sorry for you

Punisment for losing ships? Yes, i have a taser gun under my balls, whenever i lose a ship i turn it on a little, to remind me i should not do it

Johan Civire wrote:

A true hardcore PVP game. Thats all.


Yes, i agree, the hardcore ammount of spreadsheets and clicking you have to deal with is remarkable. Not to talk about the massive ammount of anti-depressants you gonna have to wash down with booze if you listen to eve soundtrack too hahahah
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#198 - 2013-08-02 08:19:21 UTC
I challange anyone to name an MMO with PVE that stays fun and challanging after several years.
Cpt Tirel
Institute For Continuous Glory
#199 - 2013-08-02 08:42:32 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
I challange anyone to name an MMO with PVE that stays fun and challanging after several years.


Everquest 1
symolan
BamBam Inc.
#200 - 2013-08-02 10:21:24 UTC
Onyx Nyx wrote:
Simply remove PvE because as game design, it expired a long time ago. Bonus: We also get rid of scrubs who want the "WoW" experience and feel entitled to it because that is what WoW have.


sounds like a sound business strategy for CCP.

or not.