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Faction Points are the most impactful pvp mods.
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Xequecal
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#41 - 2013-08-01 12:27:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Xequecal
Princess Bride wrote:
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
If you think the loss of you, your corp mates, and a thousand other booster alts are going to stop CCP from balancing overpowered off grid boosters, your in for a surprise!!!


A year of inaction speaks louder than your speculation.

Also, you really think there are only 1000 booster alt accounts that would instantly unsub if they eliminate off-grid boosting (or nerf it to the point that they're not worth it)? I believe you are severely underestimating the cost of that move. The other balancing changes you mention were either not severe enough or not widespread enough to have the fiscal impact that forcing off-grid boosters onto grid would have. The most you'll see is a reduction from 5% boosts back to 2%.


DAoC eventually gave buff-bots to everyone, even though it took them forever. This is exactly the same issue, I suspect CCP will address it eventually but it'll take it awhile.
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#42 - 2013-08-01 14:26:51 UTC

[Odyssey 1.1] Warfare Links, Mindlinks, Gang bonuses

  • Warfare links (other than mining links) can no longer be activated inside a starbase forcefield

  • Strategic Cruisers: The Warfare Processors will now provide a 2% increase in the strength of warfare links per level of their racial defensive subsystem skill. They will also now provide bonuses to three different types of gang links

  • The four Warfare Specialist skill bonus changed from the current 100% bonus per level (after the first level) to 20% bonus per level. The base boosts of are being changed to make non-CS/T3 Warfare links more potent.

  • Mindlink bonus reduced from +50% to +25%

  • Command Ship link bonuses changed to a static 15% bonus. Orcas and Rorquals keep their 3% and 5% bonuses respectively. T3 Warfare processor subsystem bonus changed to 2% per level.

  • The strength of these warfare links is moreless unchanged: Electronic Superiority, Recon Operation, Sensor Integrity, Evasive Maneuvers, Field Enhancement, Laser Optimization, and Harvester Capacitor

  • All defensive (Siege and Armored) links: Max Bonus reduced from 35% to 25%

  • Rapid Deployment: Max bonus reduced from 35% to 30%.

  • Interdiction Maneuvers: Max Bonus reduced from 53% to 39%.

  • Adding Navy Mindlinks with the 25% bonus to two different disciplines
  • Adding normal mindlinks to Concord LP store
  • Powergrid need of all warfare links modules decreased by 100.


    • To be honest, not the "you must be on grid" oomph I desire, nor a big enough "potency" reduction, but let's see where the thread goes.
    Othran
    Route One
    #43 - 2013-08-01 14:40:48 UTC
    Cue the "I want my SPs back" threads..... P

    /me is maxed in leadership but wth I'm still maxed afterwards. Flip side is the Sleipnir got buffed and is even more of a monster now.

    Time to go stock up on long points/scrams/webs for resale after 1.1........
    Zarnak Wulf
    Amarrian Vengeance
    Team Amarrica
    #44 - 2013-08-01 14:43:54 UTC
    Beat me to it Gizznitt. Lol
    Cearain
    Plus 10 NV
    It Burns When I'm PvPing
    #45 - 2013-08-01 14:50:58 UTC
    IbanezLaney wrote:
    Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
    Quote:

    Station games will be the only way people fight if ogb's go. CCP surely know this and don't want to break the great pvp they started when they fixed things like FW which in turn fixed low sec.

    I would hope CCP have done the maths and know it's not a financially responsible move. It will even effect the economy of eve as T3 ship, subsystem and command module demand will plummet considerably.

    How long ago were we promised walking in stations or many other non existent changes to eve?

    Not saying CCP will never do this - just saying it is a poor business decision as an answer to peoples issues with boosts.


    There are much better solutions to this like forcing people out of NPC corps after a certain time etc and convincing them not to treat eve as a single player game.



    ^^^ This little rant above... is essentially you screaming the sky is falling, either because of ignorance, or because your grasping at straws.

    Station Games: I've been playing this game since before T3 Ships existed, and I can tell you there is a risk adverse crowd that has always played station games, and always will. However, thanks to the crimewatch 2.0 changes, logistics inheriting aggression, the inability to eject from a ship when you have a weapons timer... Station games have dwindled drastically. Removing off grid boosts will do NOTHING to change their prevalence.

    The Economy: When CCP teiricided frigates, cruisers, battlecruisers, and battleships, they dramatically altered the mineral requirements for most ships. That had a MUCH larger effect on the economy than your precious t3 subsystem market ever will. They altered the rock composition of nullsec minerals, they took away drone poo, they removed t1 items from the loot table, they buffed mining barges, they revamped ice belts, they introduced infinitely respawning grav sites, etc, etc, etc... The economic effects of nerfing off grid boosters would be akin to the ripple caused by a single drop of water falling on a pond... during a monsoon.

    Again, your fear of OGB'ers going away is legit, because they will. I'll bet you 100m isk, by this date next year, OGB's will have been significantly altered to be much less effective than they are today. They are broken, you know it, I know it, CCP knows it, the CSM knows it, and while they might not have a technical solution ready to release today, winter is coming!



    You have picked my motivation wrong.
    When ogb's are gone - very few will use them - meaning I won't bother using them
    I will be saving on 2 subs.

    It is win win for me.

    Why would i fear saving money?




    Perspective dude. Less subs = less money into improving eve.



    You are only looking at this from the perspective of someone who has played this game for years and really cares about your killboard so you are willing to pay for 2 extra subs and blow all immersion by multiboxing alts.

    Think of how many new players will be turned off when they find out that in order to compete you need to pay for additional subscriptions and multibox them around so they can sit in safespots and run links?

    This negative effect on the number of subscriptions is not as easy to quantify and it takes a while for eve to get that reputation, but once it does eve has bigger problems. Because once you get a reputation like that, even if they fix ogbs it will be too late, the reputation will stick. "Alts online" is more like a second job than a fun game.

    EVE where everyone knows they have to pay for multiple accounts too boost their pvp ships, has a much lower subscription rate then an eve where people don't have to blow all illusion of flying a spaceship by multiboxing.

    The sooner ccp corrects this **** mechanic the more marketable their game will be.

    Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
    Gizznitt Malikite
    Agony Unleashed
    Agony Empire
    #46 - 2013-08-01 15:20:23 UTC
    Zarnak Wulf wrote:
    Beat me to it Gizznitt. Lol


    I wonder how many instant "unsubs" are going to happen!
    Muad 'dib
    Deep Core Mining Inc.
    Caldari State
    #47 - 2013-08-01 15:26:56 UTC
    If OGB goes i hope ECM goes for the same reasons.

    One ship effecting far to many players and throwing good fights down the drain :D

    Cosmic signature detected. . . . http://i.imgur.com/Z7NfIS6.jpg I got 99 likes, and this post aint one.
    Gizznitt Malikite
    Agony Unleashed
    Agony Empire
    #48 - 2013-08-01 15:50:09 UTC
    Muad 'dib wrote:
    If OGB goes i hope ECM goes for the same reasons.

    One ship effecting far to many players and throwing good fights down the drain :D


    An ECM boat needs to be on gird, is generally frail, and there are lowslot and midslot modules that significantly hinder its effectiveness.

    In contrast, there is pragmatically no counter to an OGB'er, especially one within a POS force field.

    While I fully support improving the backup array and ECCM modules to be generally more useful, I think ECM is pretty decently balanced at the moment. You can't, with any validity or modicum of integrity, claim the same about OGBers!
    Ilkahn
    Ideal Mechanisms
    #49 - 2013-08-01 21:16:49 UTC
    Cpt Arareb wrote:
    IbanezLaney wrote:



    Peoples problem with boosts isn't the boosts themselves - they are just pissed that they don't have them as well.
    When offered, every one who says they don't like boosts will run with them - I have seen this behavior too many times in eve.



    the problem with boosts (offgrid boosts) is that the damn ship is invulnerable, cant be killed unless you kill the damn pos to get to the ship, I mean how the hell is that so dificult to understandUgh

    is not a matter of if you can or not have one is a matter that you cant atack it, you cant destroy it, and that is what is broken and as you already saw even CCP is not happy with the way offgrid boosters work, they simple go against what eve is about, risk vs rewards, what risk you getting using a booster inside a invulnerable shield that give 150% more reward (or something) none, unless you somehow screw up (99,9% impossible??)

    another thing, you say eve is not about 1v1, EVE is a sandbox, a sandbox, I say again a sandbox Roll I play wiith my friends, and I play alone (1v1?) sandboxAttention


    You Tell em!
    Machiavelli's Nemesis
    Angry Mustellid
    Lost Obsession
    #50 - 2013-08-01 21:39:41 UTC
    While we're at it, tank is OP in general.

    And prop mods.

    Armour plates and MWDs should be removed from the game ASAP.
    Flyinghotpocket
    Amarrian Vengeance
    Team Amarrica
    #51 - 2013-08-02 04:45:53 UTC
    Machiavelli's Nemesis wrote:
    *posts in communist thread*

    How unfair it is that the bourgeois can afford to live in opulance with their faction and deadspace mods while the pubbies starve in squalor with only vanilla equipment.

    Nubbins Unite! You have nothing to lose but a pile of shítfít frigates!

    this propoganda is almost as bad as susan bitchs

    Amarr Militia Representative - A jar of nitro
    Cpt Arareb
    Viziam
    Amarr Empire
    #52 - 2013-08-02 08:53:56 UTC
    Taoist Dragon wrote:
    They don't need to remove ogb's just stop them being so powerful IMO....job done


    they only need to take og from the b X
    Cannibal Kane
    Viziam
    Amarr Empire
    #53 - 2013-08-02 10:22:27 UTC
    Just want to point out.

    A person with a booster might lose 3km? on his point? The 36km from a T2 boosted point might drop down to 32-33km. Which can easily be made up with overheat.

    "Kane is the End Boss of Highsec." -Psychotic Monk
    Muad 'dib
    Deep Core Mining Inc.
    Caldari State
    #54 - 2013-08-02 10:40:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Muad 'dib
    I dont see the problem.

    If you want to be able to warp all the time use damned warp stabs.

    If you undock in a shootable place or in a shootable situation, you will get scrammed and shot at.

    (remember Hics dont have faction version of their WDFG nor do they get loki bonuses to it.)

    stop all your whining for gods sake.

    Dont want to die? dont undock or fit stabs.

    The point and its range is not the problem, you are. So YOU do some thing about it in game, dont change the damned points they are doing their job.

    Cosmic signature detected. . . . http://i.imgur.com/Z7NfIS6.jpg I got 99 likes, and this post aint one.
    Bienator II
    madmen of the skies
    #55 - 2013-08-02 14:04:53 UTC
    Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
    [quote=Muad 'dib]
    While I fully support improving the backup array and ECCM modules to be generally more useful, I think ECM is pretty decently balanced at the moment. You can't, with any validity or modicum of integrity, claim the same about OGBers!

    ECM isn't balanced if you think how it works in relation to other modules:
    - it is one dimensional - all what matters is range, nothing else
    - it works against anything
    - random number decides IF it jams or not
    - even if you have good sensor strength and have ECCM a single (random) jam cycle can get you killed since it is so damn long

    ECM is still the most non competitive, out of place module in the game. (but its at least on-grid ;) )

    i mean think about it. Is "**** i am in low armor lets launch ecm drones and hope for best" a fun gameplay mechanic?

    how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value
    Cearain
    Plus 10 NV
    It Burns When I'm PvPing
    #56 - 2013-08-02 14:07:00 UTC
    Cpt Arareb wrote:
    Taoist Dragon wrote:
    They don't need to remove ogb's just stop them being so powerful IMO....job done


    they only need to take og from the b X



    Put them on killmails would be nice too.

    Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
    Princess Nexxala
    Quantum Cats Syndicate
    #57 - 2013-08-02 15:15:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Princess Nexxala
    TROLOLOLOL

    Because linking kills from 2009 is boss! Well done, your mother must be proudLol

    Gizznitt Malikite wrote:

    Try winning these fights when your opponent has fleet boosters and you do not. You generally wont! Try winning these fights like I did, without any bling, without fleet boosts, without pricey implants, without drugs:

    Merlin vs Rifter
    Merlin vs Claw
    Merlin vs Crow
    Merlin vs Raptor
    Merlin vs Crusader (loss mail to show my fit)
    Merlin vs Taranis (loss mail to show my fit)
    Merlin vs Taranis

    Taranis vs Rupture
    Taranis vs Hurricane
    Taranis vs Rapier

    Helios vs Jaguar
    Helios vs Harpy
    Helios vs Thrasher
    Helios vs Sabre

    Combat in EvE should be about using tactics to defeat your opponent, having friends, employing tricks and traps, and most importantly, risking everything that gives you and advantage to win!

    Frankly, fleet boosters are too potent, for too little investment, and way too little risk!





    On the "nerf", bring that **** on grid and put them on killmails or just **** off and leave it alone.

    nom nom
    Phaade
    Proioxis Assault Force
    Rogue Caldari Union
    #58 - 2013-08-02 15:33:26 UTC
    Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
    IbanezLaney wrote:
    Phaade wrote:
    People argue that SP is the largest roadblock to successfully PvP. I disagree. Money is.

    The majority of fights (particularly in FW space) are dictated by those with a faction point. Scramming out to 14km and pointing out to 36km is ludicrous. They completely change the dynamics of a fight, granting those with that ability a massive advantage over those without.

    Scramming, for obvious reasons will get your kiting ship caught much more easily than 10.8km, making it considerably easier to effectively use a brawling ship. Long points to 36 damn KM make them able to kite outside reasonable firing ranges while removing your ability to escape. You slingshot them to 29km, spamming warp, and nothing. Then you overheat your MWD to slingshot them to 36KM, and still nothing. These are the most PvP breaking mods, well aside from ECM, but that's another debate.



    Its not usually a faction point - it is Loki Boosts.

    A friend in an ECM ship is the way to counter them.
    ECM is not broken while ever target damping is around.

    The mistake you are making is flying alone. Fly with friends.



    I bolded the part that needs emphasis.... Straight up, it is off grid boosts that are the roadblock.

    Tengu Links can give a ship 125% more shield rep, well over 50% more shield tank. A full set of cyrstals AND a Strong blue pill doesn't even provide those boosts...
    Legion Links give the same bonuses as the Tengu, except to armor.
    Loki Links give 52% more web, scram, and point range (which is why you think they are using faction modules), as well as 35% more speed and a 35% smaller sig radius (which is often equivalent to a 20-30% damage reduction).
    Proteus Links give 35% stronger EWAR, projected 35% farther, and a stronger resistance to jams.

    A proper fleet can have thee of the above, but generally people take one ship, and put 3 full strength and 2 1/3rd strength boosts on the same ship.

    Essentially, the strength of OGBers is Broken, and anyone who thinks otherwise is a complete moron.




    Good God, so an OGB with a faction point...well......

    Certain ships having a really long point is one thing (arazu), but every ship having a really long point is another.

    Glad the OGB thing is about to be adressed
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