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Mining Barge Destroyed... What Now?

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Author
Ekhss Nihilo
The Night Watchmen
Goonswarm Federation
#21 - 2013-07-31 15:33:41 UTC
lieutenant scumlorddd wrote:
Daniel Plain wrote:
Soloman Jackson wrote:
lieutenant scumlorddd wrote:
William Walker wrote:
Don't fly what you can't afford to lose. Lesson learned, I hope. How to avoid this? Don't autopilot if you don't need to. Put some more tanky on your shippy. And after this post, you seem nice, I am sure some people will help you out. Godspeed.


What kind of tank is good for a mining barge? Is there a mining barge that is more tanky than the retriever?


Yeah, the procurer. You can get 40k+ ehp on those things.

i'm not sure 40k ehp will save you from a blaster thorax. in any case, you should know that losing ships is part of this game. if you get upset just because someone killed, EVE might not be the right game for you.

as for safer mining, using a procurer will at least make it harder to gank you. being in a less busy system than hek is also a good idea. lastly it pays off to orbit an asteroid while mining, because this makes it harder for the ganker to warp in close to you. obviously, you should watch the overview for potentially dangerous players and try to warp out if you see them landing on grid.


I will keep this in mind. I understand losing ships is part of the game, I guess I am frustrated because I dumped all of my assets into a single ship (mistake number one) my second mistake is using my barge to haul ore.

You're a member of a corp. Do they not put together fleet mining ops? Solo mining by definition increases your risk potential, as I can tell you from experience. A savvy corp will put together fleet mining ops and may include a member flying CAP. In any case, I'll echo another poster here and suggest that you are not necessarily getting the best support from your corp.

On those occasions when we are at war or have been wardec'ed , everyone in the corp knows about it and is kept up to date on developments. No excuse for your leadership not keeping you informed. Staying informed is your responsibility as well - check your corp mail, talk with your leadership and other experienced members. EVE isn't especially kind to solo players. It's an option, but it comes with a price. As you have seen.

If you're going to solo mine, then learn the value of dscanning, always keep aligned with a potential exit point and don't hesitate to drop everything and run if you can. Keep the rats of with your drones. and if someone shows up in anything other than a mining craft or freighter, be prepared to bug out. Also watch your overview. If you see them closing distance on you, then spam that jump key and keep your fingers crossed.

Good luck and fly safe(er).

"The object in life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane." -- Marcus Aurelius (AD 121-180)

lieutenant scumlorddd
Minmatar Republic
#22 - 2013-07-31 16:03:10 UTC
@Ekhss Nihilo

I will work on keeping my eyes on local chat and using the directional scanner. I like the fact that eve is difficult, but I guess as a new player and throwing all your eggs into one basket (mining barge) and losing it can cause some frustration.
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#23 - 2013-07-31 16:12:45 UTC

Sorry you lost your ship...

In EvE, losses are real. This is why people say don't fly what you can't afford to lose. When young, 50m isk seems like an enormous amount of isk, and it take many hours to grind that up. I would ask your corp buddies for some "isk" to get on your feet, and hopefully they will. Hopefully they can give you some pointers on how to keep safe (be it in nullsec, lowsec, and/or highsec). FYI: most PvP organizations look down on miners because a person skilling into mining is generally not skilling towards PvP'ing.

When at war, you are a valid target for aggression everywhere. A mining barge, when setup to mine, is NOT very capable at defending itself, and will almost always be obliterated by any combat fit ship. While there are some tools to help you "get away," if they don't work you will inevitably lose your ship. The most common, and probably most effective, is to carry 5x EC-300 drones. Align out, deploy drones to attack the thorax, and pray for a successful jam. If they are successful, the thorax will be jammed meaning you could warp off to safety. Realize, your chance of successful jam on a thorax is around 25%. Essentially, mining is dangerous when at war, and you paid the standard price it.

Even when not at war, you still are not 100% safe in highsec. Many players will suicide gank miners and haulers, ideally so they can loot the wreck and make a profit. The defense against suicide ganking is to tank your mining barge enough that concord spawns and destroys the suicide gankers before your ship blows up. This takes ~20 seconds in a 0.5 system, and is why people started replying with "tank your ship" posts. Truthfully, your retriever was untanked to the point most suicide gankers would destroy it with ease with a destroyer. which is why people assumed that's what happened.
lieutenant scumlorddd
Minmatar Republic
#24 - 2013-07-31 16:20:01 UTC
@Gizznitt Malikite

EC-300 drones, this sounds very useful. I needed a way to generate isk to support that expensive pvp habit that is the reason I worked my way up to a mining barge. I have looked on battleclinc and found a more appropriate fit, and will go with the procurer. I like the increased odds of suvival.
Othran
Route One
#25 - 2013-07-31 16:23:02 UTC
Not being funny here but since when did FIGL go mining?

You signed up to what was (still is?) a nullsec PvP-centric corp so why are you mining in empire?

I'm genuinely interested as I was once in FIGL and left as there were maybe 10 people out of a membership of 1000 online when I played.....
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#26 - 2013-07-31 16:25:24 UTC
lieutenant scumlorddd wrote:
@Gizznitt Malikite

EC-300 drones, this sounds very useful. I needed a way to generate isk to support that expensive pvp habit that is the reason I worked my way up to a mining barge. I have looked on battleclinc and found a more appropriate fit, and will go with the procurer. I like the increased odds of suvival.


Remember, EC drones are chance based.... and do not come with a guarantee of success.

At 25% chance of success (every 20 seconds), you'll get away from that thorax once out of every four attacks... That's not a big chance, and if they bring two ships or more, it is extremely unlikely you'll survive.
Othran
Route One
#27 - 2013-07-31 16:27:21 UTC
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:

I would ask your corp buddies for some "isk" to get on your feet, and hopefully they will.


FIGL doesn't work that way Gizz, its sink or swim and from what I saw nobody much cares which you do. There is a BIG distinction between Southern Cross Empire (newbies) and Southern Cross Trilogy (core)....
Snaggletooth Slackjaw
Banana Moon Industries
#28 - 2013-07-31 17:47:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Snaggletooth Slackjaw
Also.......most (but not all) wardecs involve the agressors sitting at trade hubs (Hek, Rens, Jita, Amarr, Dodixie) or within a jump or two, looking for soft targets.

If you aren't looking for a fight, stay away from trade hubs when at war, sell your ore for slighly cheaper at quieter high-sec systems.

CEO, Banana Moon Industries. Alliance Diplomat, Rim Worlds Protectorate

Riel Saigo
Facta.Non.Verba
#29 - 2013-07-31 20:17:32 UTC
As a newbie messing around - even in lowsec space - my general rule has been to never fly something I couldn't buy ten more of with what's in my wallet.
Anti-social Tendencies
Society for Miner Education
#30 - 2013-07-31 20:20:46 UTC
lieutenant scumlorddd wrote:
Daniel Plain wrote:
Soloman Jackson wrote:
lieutenant scumlorddd wrote:
William Walker wrote:
Don't fly what you can't afford to lose. Lesson learned, I hope. How to avoid this? Don't autopilot if you don't need to. Put some more tanky on your shippy. And after this post, you seem nice, I am sure some people will help you out. Godspeed.


What kind of tank is good for a mining barge? Is there a mining barge that is more tanky than the retriever?


Yeah, the procurer. You can get 40k+ ehp on those things.

i'm not sure 40k ehp will save you from a blaster thorax. in any case, you should know that losing ships is part of this game. if you get upset just because someone killed, EVE might not be the right game for you.

as for safer mining, using a procurer will at least make it harder to gank you. being in a less busy system than hek is also a good idea. lastly it pays off to orbit an asteroid while mining, because this makes it harder for the ganker to warp in close to you. obviously, you should watch the overview for potentially dangerous players and try to warp out if you see them landing on grid.


I will keep this in mind. I understand losing ships is part of the game, I guess I am frustrated because I dumped all of my assets into a single ship (mistake number one) my second mistake is using my barge to haul ore.


Your 1st mistake was mining while at War. Of course you know that now.

Second mistake was flying a Ret with no tank at all Some will say that it is impossible to tank a Ret against being ganked and they are partly correct. You can tank it so that it takes more than two really cheap Cats to kill it.

I don't gank procurors simply because it is too much of a pain in the backside. I will gank anything that I can do with 2 cheap Catalysts however. Heck, even if a miner has made a concerted effort to tank their barge, I'll usually give it a pass. I like to gank stupidity.

"Patience: n, a minor form of despair, disguised as a virtue." - AMBROSE PIERCE

Hiroshige Utagawa
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#31 - 2013-07-31 20:35:52 UTC
Zemo Walden wrote:
Don't know if anyone has said this, but you can leave a corp at any time, if you go to the corp info / players you can right click your name and leave. It will place you in a NPC controlled corp again like at the start with the school corps etc. Good luck

Echo this. If you are back in your school corps, you'll have Concord protection in hi-sec space and can mine to your hearts content until you find a corp that is not terrible.
lieutenant scumlorddd
Minmatar Republic
#32 - 2013-07-31 22:11:27 UTC
@Snaggletooth Slackjaw
I did some more research these guys are based out of Rens, I plan on avoiding these hubs in the future. Excellent advice
lieutenant scumlorddd
Minmatar Republic
#33 - 2013-08-01 06:54:36 UTC
Thanks for all the help guys, I now have some information to keep safe and a brand new retriever fitted more appropriately.
Radius Prime
Tax Evading Ass.
#34 - 2013-08-01 13:01:17 UTC
Archdaimon wrote:
Your only mistake was to join a horribly bad alliance.

If they can't even instruct new player how to avoid war decs or fight back.

Leave

Asap

and find a better corp.


His alliance is called Flying Dangerous... What's in a name eh?

Reopen the EVE gate so we can invade Serenity. Goons can go first.

Radius Prime
Tax Evading Ass.
#35 - 2013-08-01 13:11:35 UTC
lieutenant scumlorddd wrote:
@Gizznitt Malikite

EC-300 drones, this sounds very useful. I needed a way to generate isk to support that expensive pvp habit that is the reason I worked my way up to a mining barge. I have looked on battleclinc and found a more appropriate fit, and will go with the procurer. I like the increased odds of suvival.


Battleclinic offers some of the worst fits in EVE. Do not rely on that site for fits. Go read the EVE university wiki, you will find loads of advice and new player fits on there.

Reopen the EVE gate so we can invade Serenity. Goons can go first.

Riel Saigo
Facta.Non.Verba
#36 - 2013-08-01 13:20:58 UTC
Just another newb observation.

I've been getting in the habit of looking on my star map for ships killed in the last hour and I've noticed a pattern.

There's a LOT more dying going on in HIGH SEC than low sec.

Zoom out on the map, and you'll see some nasty null sec hotspots (which I presume are from the big alliances pummeling each other). But the big hotspots are mostly in high sec. Trade hubs like Jita are particularly bad.

I suppose some of this can be attributed to suicide ganking, and trolling nonsense like can-flipping and the like. But surely not all of it. Some of those high sec systems show big numbers like 73 kills in the last hour. That can't just be suicide ganking.

Then it occurred to me that I was probably looking at the results of war-decking. Corporations getting war-decked and then massive slaughters. I could be wrong, but that's the only idea that makes sense to me.

If this is true though.... It makes me think that high sec is probably the most dangerous space in the game to have a little corporation, or be a part of one.

Just another reason to get into low sec or wormholes as soon as I can.
Othran
Route One
#37 - 2013-08-01 13:48:36 UTC
Most of those highsec "hotspots" are tutorial systems and what you're seeing are (mainly) the losses from the combat (?) tutorial missions where you have to lose the ship.
Lady Katherine Devonshire
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
#38 - 2013-08-01 15:37:20 UTC
Worth noting: It is called Hek for a reason, because it is only one jump away from Hell. What is the security there, 0.5? Hek is a trade hub, yes, but it is also the de facto trade hub of low security pirates precisely because of it's appalling security. So anytime you fly anything into or out of there you are, by default, entering a very high risk zone. Therefore one should either fly things with massive amounts of hitpoints or very little value, because you can assume that the criminal element is going to be scanning everything going in and out of there. The gankers there are also a particularly toxic bunch and will attack things of no salvage value simply because it was shiny and they can get away with it. In other words they are not so much professional pirates as "tear collectors" that hang out there.

If you want the safest docking port then go to Amarr. 1.0 Security means minimum CONCORD response time, and being deep in Empire space it is slightly more difficult for the -10.0 types to get into. Amarr is the bulk goods trade hub, with quantity taking precedence over quality. In other words, the opposite of what pirates want to find in a wreck. All factors included, getting ganked whilst shipping to & fro Amarr practically requires either a special kind of stupidity or very determined personal enemies.

Dodixie would be your second best bet for similar reasons. Prices might be a tad higher, but if it is closer than Amarr or Jita then by all means use it. It is also one of the more interesting social hubs as well, and a good place to recruit pilots for various projects you might endeavor to undertake. All in all a very pleasant shopping experience.

Jita has high security but it's sheer mass draws in the more clever pirate types anyway - your real safety in Jita is simply the ease of disappearing into the perpetual cloud of ships already there. Of course ganking still happens in Jita, so there is still no excuse to try to bring in a billion ISK worth of items in an unescorted freighter. However the gankers there usually will not bother with anything less. Unlike Hek, the Jita pirates are professionals and thus are purely profit driven.

Rens is popular with Faction Warfare PvP types, but that does imply that they are actual pirates. Still far safer than Hek, of course, and acts as an unofficial border trading post between the Republic and the Empire. Prices are pretty horrifying, however.

Pator is still the hands-down best place for buying skills books of all kinds.

For those few of us who live in the Ammatar Mandate, Tanoo is the place to go for everything, assuming you're not a pirate. It's also incredibly safe, though that is more due to a simple lack of interest by the gankers than anything else. There is another, tiny system on the nullsec border that pirates like to shop at, but the name escapes me.
Lady Katherine Devonshire
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
#39 - 2013-08-01 15:43:34 UTC
Also... why on Earth would someone put cargo extenders of any kind on a mining barge? They do nothing to expand your ore hold and merely cost you precious hitpoints. In the old days before the barge changes then yes, they helped, but not any more. Just add either more mining laser upgrades or a damage control, depending on which direction you want to play it.

In the future I would recommend using defense rigs, if anything, to squeeze a little hitpoints out of the ship. Especially if you upgrade to a Procurer, as rigs will make a far greater difference with that than it would in a Retriever.
Ekhss Nihilo
The Night Watchmen
Goonswarm Federation
#40 - 2013-08-01 19:49:34 UTC
Lady Katherine Devonshire wrote:
Worth noting: It is called Hek for a reason, because it is only one jump away from Hell. What is the security there, 0.5? Hek is a trade hub, yes, but it is also the de facto trade hub of low security pirates precisely because of it's appalling security. So anytime you fly anything into or out of there you are, by default, entering a very high risk zone. Therefore one should either fly things with massive amounts of hitpoints or very little value, because you can assume that the criminal element is going to be scanning everything going in and out of there. The gankers there are also a particularly toxic bunch and will attack things of no salvage value simply because it was shiny and they can get away with it. In other words they are not so much professional pirates as "tear collectors" that hang out there.

If you want the safest docking port then go to Amarr. 1.0 Security means minimum CONCORD response time, and being deep in Empire space it is slightly more difficult for the -10.0 types to get into. Amarr is the bulk goods trade hub, with quantity taking precedence over quality. In other words, the opposite of what pirates want to find in a wreck. All factors included, getting ganked whilst shipping to & fro Amarr practically requires either a special kind of stupidity or very determined personal enemies.

Dodixie would be your second best bet for similar reasons. Prices might be a tad higher, but if it is closer than Amarr or Jita then by all means use it. It is also one of the more interesting social hubs as well, and a good place to recruit pilots for various projects you might endeavor to undertake. All in all a very pleasant shopping experience.

Jita has high security but it's sheer mass draws in the more clever pirate types anyway - your real safety in Jita is simply the ease of disappearing into the perpetual cloud of ships already there. Of course ganking still happens in Jita, so there is still no excuse to try to bring in a billion ISK worth of items in an unescorted freighter. However the gankers there usually will not bother with anything less. Unlike Hek, the Jita pirates are professionals and thus are purely profit driven.

Rens is popular with Faction Warfare PvP types, but that does imply that they are actual pirates. Still far safer than Hek, of course, and acts as an unofficial border trading post between the Republic and the Empire. Prices are pretty horrifying, however.

Pator is still the hands-down best place for buying skills books of all kinds.

For those few of us who live in the Ammatar Mandate, Tanoo is the place to go for everything, assuming you're not a pirate. It's also incredibly safe, though that is more due to a simple lack of interest by the gankers than anything else. There is another, tiny system on the nullsec border that pirates like to shop at, but the name escapes me.


Thank you for this very useful post. This represents a ton of information that would otherwise be hard to come by and only through hard-won experience. This is the sort of thing that is tremendously helpful to relatively new players like myself.

Corrollary: you have to want to know these things in order to profit from them. EVE doesn;t favor he incurious or the impatient.

"The object in life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane." -- Marcus Aurelius (AD 121-180)

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