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Lightning fast EVE?

Author
Kerono Thalmor
Band of Buggered
#1 - 2013-08-01 00:57:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Kerono Thalmor
Hey guys,
So, I went back to Windows for a bit, but now that I've managed to get EVE running under Linux successfully (for the most part), I have little reason to remain on Windows. I find myself wondering, however, if it's possible to get EVE to run faster under Linux than under Windows. If so, how do you think one would go about it?

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Johan Civire
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#2 - 2013-08-01 02:12:19 UTC
Kerono Thalmor wrote:
Hey guys,
So, I went back to Windows for a bit, but now that I've managed to get EVE running under Linux successfully (for the most part), I have little reason to remain on Windows. I find myself wondering, however, if it's possible to get EVE to run faster under Linux than under Windows. If so, how do you think one would go about it?


You already talking about faster? First get it stable then we going to talk about faster.
Katrina Bekers
A Blessed Bean
Pandemic Horde
#3 - 2013-08-01 11:13:55 UTC
Kerono Thalmor wrote:
I find myself wondering, however, if it's possible to get EVE to run faster under Linux than under Windows.


On same hardware? Even if theoretically possible (*), it's practically never the case, given there's at least one more "translation" layer between what the Windows program asks the system, and what function is being used by the WINE layer.

We pay a performance price to use a program outside its natural environment, and this price is hardly zero or negative!

__

(*) - If the Linux implementation of a specific function is appreciably more efficient or faster than the corresponding Windows function.

<< THE RABBLE BRIGADE >>

Kerono Thalmor
Band of Buggered
#4 - 2013-08-02 16:56:00 UTC
Johan Civire wrote:
Kerono Thalmor wrote:
Hey guys,
So, I went back to Windows for a bit, but now that I've managed to get EVE running under Linux successfully (for the most part), I have little reason to remain on Windows. I find myself wondering, however, if it's possible to get EVE to run faster under Linux than under Windows. If so, how do you think one would go about it?


You already talking about faster? First get it stable then we going to talk about faster.


Well, it was the hardware I was running it under. I used a laptop I already had Linux on for a test, but it doesn't run EVE too well to begin with, much less so under Ubuntu, what with Ubuntu's extra gadgets and fluff. Also the fact that the wireless cut out for no apparent reason with some regularity tended to complicate things... But I imagine if I ran it on my main PC, it would be pretty stable, provided I could fix the wireless issue.

Katrina Bekers wrote:
Kerono Thalmor wrote:

I find myself wondering, however, if it's possible to get EVE to run faster under Linux than under Windows.



On same hardware? Even if theoretically possible (*), it's practically never the case, given there's at least one more "translation" layer between what the Windows program asks the system, and what function is being used by the WINE layer.

We pay a performance price to use a program outside its natural environment, and this price is hardly zero or negative!

__

(*) - If the Linux implementation of a specific function is appreciably more efficient or faster than the corresponding Windows function.


Interesting to note. What I'm wondering, however, is that if there's any way to squeeze that extra bit of performance out of it, to narrow the gap between Windows performance and WINE performance.

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Torgeir Hekard
I MYSELF AND ME
#5 - 2013-08-03 06:02:45 UTC
Kerono Thalmor wrote:
[quote=Johan Civire][quote=Kerono Thalmor]
Well, it was the hardware I was running it under. I used a laptop I already had Linux on for a test, but it doesn't run EVE too well to begin with, much less so under Ubuntu, what with Ubuntu's extra gadgets and fluff. Also the fact that the wireless cut out for no apparent reason with some regularity tended to complicate things... But I imagine if I ran it on my main PC, it would be pretty stable, provided I could fix the wireless issue.

1. It's the compositor (I assume ubuntu uses compiz). Makes a noticeable dent in performance (there were graphs, but I'm too lazy to find them. Among compozitors kwin is the most friendly, compiz is the least. Of course, no composition is better).
2. If you have intel wireless, you might look into disabling 802.11n. Should help.
Kerono Thalmor
Band of Buggered
#6 - 2013-08-04 02:05:34 UTC
Torgeir Hekard wrote:
Kerono Thalmor wrote:

Well, it was the hardware I was running it under. I used a laptop I already had Linux on for a test, but it doesn't run EVE too well to begin with, much less so under Ubuntu, what with Ubuntu's extra gadgets and fluff. Also the fact that the wireless cut out for no apparent reason with some regularity tended to complicate things... But I imagine if I ran it on my main PC, it would be pretty stable, provided I could fix the wireless issue.

1. It's the compositor (I assume ubuntu uses compiz). Makes a noticeable dent in performance (there were graphs, but I'm too lazy to find them. Among compozitors kwin is the most friendly, compiz is the least. Of course, no composition is better).
2. If you have intel wireless, you might look into disabling 802.11n. Should help.


Alright, so I'll try switching to Kwin. Also, I have a Realtek wireless. I tried updating the driver, but I'm not sure the system is using it. Is there a way to make sure?

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Torgeir Hekard
I MYSELF AND ME
#7 - 2013-08-04 05:50:53 UTC
Kerono Thalmor wrote:

Alright, so I'll try switching to Kwin. Also, I have a Realtek wireless. I tried updating the driver, but I'm not sure the system is using it. Is there a way to make sure?

Quite frankly, you'd better off disabing composition completely when running demanding 3D applications. Not sure if the default Ubuntu compositor allows for it, but, IIRC, kwin does.
As for wireless driver - looking at dmesg. Realtek drivers are either r8* or rtl8*. You can look for them in lsmod to see if they are loaded, but you'd need to search in dmesg what they are actually doing.
Kerono Thalmor
Band of Buggered
#8 - 2013-08-05 00:25:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Kerono Thalmor
Torgeir Hekard wrote:
Kerono Thalmor wrote:

Alright, so I'll try switching to Kwin. Also, I have a Realtek wireless. I tried updating the driver, but I'm not sure the system is using it. Is there a way to make sure?

Quite frankly, you'd better off disabing composition completely when running demanding 3D applications. Not sure if the default Ubuntu compositor allows for it, but, IIRC, kwin does.
As for wireless driver - looking at dmesg. Realtek drivers are either r8* or rtl8*. You can look for them in lsmod to see if they are loaded, but you'd need to search in dmesg what they are actually doing.


Okay, I've downloaded and switched to KDE (still using Ubuntu), and I've turned off effects. Is that how you turn off composition, or am I missing something? I've yet to fix the new drivers, still trying to get it running better graphic-wise. I'll let you know how that turns out when I do it.

EDIT: It seems that the network has stabilized since I moved to Ubuntu 13.04. I've got it up and running, but I think it runs slower under KDE than Unity, which for some reason doesn't come as a suprise to me... Perhaps I should try Enlightenment? That's an extremely lightweight window manager.

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Torgeir Hekard
I MYSELF AND ME
#9 - 2013-08-05 04:25:52 UTC
Kerono Thalmor wrote:

Okay, I've downloaded and switched to KDE (still using Ubuntu), and I've turned off effects. Is that how you turn off composition, or am I missing something?

Dunno. I use openbox. It doesn't have composition at allBear. The last time I was using KDE was a couple of years ago, so I don't remember.
Kerono Thalmor wrote:

EDIT: It seems that the network has stabilized since I moved to Ubuntu 13.04. I've got it up and running, but I think it runs slower under KDE than Unity, which for some reason doesn't come as a suprise to me... Perhaps I should try Enlightenment? That's an extremely lightweight window manager.

I use lxde, you may try enlightenment, but I don't know. IIRC it has it's own toolkit, and I don't know anything about applications using it.
Kerono Thalmor
Band of Buggered
#10 - 2013-08-05 14:31:57 UTC
Torgeir Hekard wrote:
Kerono Thalmor wrote:

Okay, I've downloaded and switched to KDE (still using Ubuntu), and I've turned off effects. Is that how you turn off composition, or am I missing something?

Dunno. I use openbox. It doesn't have composition at allBear. The last time I was using KDE was a couple of years ago, so I don't remember.
Kerono Thalmor wrote:

EDIT: It seems that the network has stabilized since I moved to Ubuntu 13.04. I've got it up and running, but I think it runs slower under KDE than Unity, which for some reason doesn't come as a suprise to me... Perhaps I should try Enlightenment? That's an extremely lightweight window manager.

I use lxde, you may try enlightenment, but I don't know. IIRC it has it's own toolkit, and I don't know anything about applications using it.


I'll give them both a try and let ya know which one gives me the best results... Thanks mate!

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Kismeteer
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#11 - 2013-08-05 14:42:46 UTC
Unfortunately, most of the 'lag' that happens in eve is due to its heavy graphical nature. I really doubt it will EVER be faster than the Windows version because of the graphical drivers. Companies spend most of their time improving their windows drivers, as that is 95% of their market share. Less time is spent improving graphical drivers in linux, sadly. It's only when Linux desktops become more usable that this will change. (Hey Unity, **** you.)

Linux is a bit better in the memory management space. The only place that you might see improvements is under severe multiboxing, but once again all the tools are in windows. You might be able to shove one more multiboxing client under linux, but because isboxer is windows based, you might have some severe difficulty.
Kerono Thalmor
Band of Buggered
#12 - 2013-08-05 22:37:16 UTC
Okay, so I got it to run well under Linux. It runs almost as well as it does under Windows, except for one issue which is outside the scope of this thread. Basically, I had to install the Nvidia drivers and blacklist Nouveau. But it all works now, mostly.

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Katrina Bekers
A Blessed Bean
Pandemic Horde
#13 - 2013-08-06 20:11:36 UTC
That "mostly" is the best first step, believe me.

To answer your question: yes, there are some wine tricks (pun intended ;) ) to squeeze the best out of the translation layer, graphic drivers, scheduler, etc. They usually don't make that huge difference, but given there are 87 bazillion variants of hardware and software out there, your mileage may WILDLY vary.

As Kismeteer (grr goons!) said, the quality of the graphic card/graphic driver combination plays an important role in EVE performance. Stick to nvidia, and their proprietary blob - it's just better than any alternative, at the moment.

Still, even with outdated hardare (I run on an ancient first-gen Phenom quad core, 4GB DDR2 RAM and nvidia GTX560 Ti), I was able to "enjoy" the largest battle ever played in any game - the siege of 6VDT (grr goons!), along with other 4000+ nerds, just by being careful with hitting the "show all brackets" shortcut key...

...And the most lag was NOT from my client! OP SUCCESS!

<< THE RABBLE BRIGADE >>

Greg Arosa
Sebiestor Tribe
#14 - 2013-08-08 11:47:00 UTC
In my case EVE shows basically the same performance on linux as it does on windows. Though I don't use those heavy user environments, so that might be the case. Don't know, never bothered to check.
Rahool
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#15 - 2013-08-08 20:48:23 UTC
I tend to get less latency when I game (never tried EVE though) on Linux through wine, but I guess this is just due to windows and all it's un-needed processes clogging things up.
Drew Li
Space Exploitation Inc
#16 - 2013-08-10 02:28:35 UTC
I've found performance to be fairly good using the open source Radeon drivers and Wine 1.6. The Nvidia drivers should still be superior, but I've only seen a few performance issues. (EULA at the very beginning and CQ). The biggest performance hits I've noticed seems to occur with resource loading. Zooming in with high LoD will cause things to stutter for a bit. I had some issues with shadows and some shaders for a while, but that seems to have cleared up lately.

As for a few performance tricks:

1) 'tmpfs' the game directory or just parts of it. I haven't tried the entire directory(that will eat some serious ram, ~12gb of .stuff files) but I did do the cache folder. It definitely makes market and wallet information snappy. The game is normally on a SSD but being sure things are in memory can help a bit. Cache directory makes windows quicker, but not framerate. Loading all the content files would likely speed up a lot of the loading hits.

2) Multiple Wine Prefixes. This is more useful if you have alts. EVE stores the account settings in the application data portion of your user account, which resides in the wine prefix folder. Exporting stuff goes into your mydocs folder. This allows you to have multiple shortcuts that launch the same(or different) account with radically different settings. (Fullscreen and Windowed Mode) You don't have to duplicate the game directory either.