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Is this game really that hardcore

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MatrixSkye Mk2
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#81 - 2011-11-10 17:52:38 UTC  |  Edited by: MatrixSkye Mk2
Zowie Powers wrote:
Ptraci wrote:
Zowie Powers wrote:
I only see CCP saying this game is hardcore these days, well, when they can tear themselves away from making concessions to carebears they might fire off an editorial or two about how hardcore Eve is.


Butthurt much? "I want it to be easy to kill that defenseless ship that I'm not supposed to kill". CCP hasn't taken anything away from you. Care-bears can still be killed. You just want to do it for free. Go do some real PvP.


If I had 10,000 ISK for every fool that played the "real PvP" card, I'd be on more isk than a risk free incursion runner.

If I had 1 isk for every PVPer that thinks HTFU means easy-for-me-hard-for-you I'd have more isk than you have easy kills.

Successfully doinitwrong™ since 2006.
Zowie Powers
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#82 - 2011-11-10 17:52:57 UTC
Zions Child wrote:
Drifterin Thedark wrote:
Modern gamers want to feel hardcore, but only if everything is fair. I often think about how unfair war is, and how war games usually have to avoid that to provide a fun experience.

You want to see hardcore games, go back 20-30 years. One life, instant death when grazed by anything, no saves or checkpoints, and deliberately impossible to complete because they never made an ending.


Pong is so hardcore.


hurrr, I will knowingly use a different definition of the same word to make a statement my alliance mates will think is hilarious durrrr...

"Hustler is Hardcore, Eve isn't even Lad's Mags" heerrrrrrrrrrp
Why don't you tools have to pass a test to be allowed on the internet with everybody else?

ATX: The best of the rest.
Zowie Powers
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#83 - 2011-11-10 17:53:38 UTC
MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:
Zowie Powers wrote:
Ptraci wrote:
Zowie Powers wrote:
I only see CCP saying this game is hardcore these days, well, when they can tear themselves away from making concessions to carebears they might fire off an editorial or two about how hardcore Eve is.


Butthurt much? "I want it to be easy to kill that defenseless ship that I'm not supposed to kill". CCP hasn't taken anything away from you. Care-bears can still be killed. You just want to do it for free. Go do some real PvP.


If I had 10,000 ISK for every fool that played the "real PvP" card, I'd be on more isk than a risk free incursion runner.

If I had 5,000 isk for every PVPer that thinks HTFU means easy-for-me-hard-for-you I'd have more isk than you have easy kills.


Do you know what the greatest form of flattery is?

ATX: The best of the rest.
MatrixSkye Mk2
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#84 - 2011-11-10 17:59:35 UTC
Zowie Powers wrote:
Do you know what the greatest form of flattery is?

I want to say replying to a goof that thinks
Zowie Powers wrote:
Why should people who want to kill people harden up?

But that's probably not it.

Successfully doinitwrong™ since 2006.
Zowie Powers
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#85 - 2011-11-10 18:03:39 UTC
MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:
Zowie Powers wrote:
Do you know what the greatest form of flattery is?

I want to say replying to a goof that thinks
Zowie Powers wrote:
Why should people who want to kill people harden up?

But that's probably not it.



Try again, in English. It looks like "No, I don't know what the greatest form of flattery is", but it's really hard to tell from the random word soup you offered.
Write it again, but this time, pretend the person you hope will read it can't read your mind and only the words you present are going to convey your message.
I'm strapped in, but I'm not hopeful this is going to be much else but another person on the internet who can't come second, let alone last.

ATX: The best of the rest.
Hyacinthous
Starlight Industries .co
SL0W CHILDREN AT PLAY
#86 - 2011-11-10 18:10:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Hyacinthous
Karn Dulake wrote:
Its promoted as the coldest of the cold where anything goes but..not really

The point about this game is that you choice your level. I know hundreds of people in this game and most of them are hardly ever ganked or die for any reason. they mission, they mine, they build. When they die they normally die in wars or roams.

The only people i know who die on a regular basis are those in Nullsec running small gangs or fighting for space.


You can scam people in this game but all MMOs have plenty of scams and the moderators just accept it as part of the game.


As an example Diablo Hardcore is far tougher than EVE

You die once and once only and then you lose the character and all equipment they have. A Zod rune has a 50% chance of dropping for every 100,000 hours played.

Imagine dying in this game and losing your ship, everything in your hangars and waking up with 50k skillpoints instead of 50 million.

Its not as hardcore as people say it is.


Your angry thoughts please


Nope, this game is the furthest from hardcore that any game could be. Currently in it's present state it is pretty much on the same level as a toddlers thought process. Considering it caters to weak bullies this is basically what it's saying "I can tag you but you can't tag me" but only allowing this perspective from people who want to abuse other people, not for people who don't want to abuse others and just exist.

This game is broken and the fact that bullies get hand held and can go and hide like pussies after abusing someone makes this game pretty pathetic, not hardcore at all. If there was proper retaliation methods against the pussies, then it would be a small bit better but not much.

It caters to dweeb bullies instead of to honorable legit people. This game could be 10,000 times better than it is but it is being held back by it's inept community and CCP's lack of interest for anything other than money.

Imagine, your ship gets hacked and you have no controls, it's flying wonky and everythings going off and on the lights are flashing and the warning sound is blaring, oh noes suddenly your computer notifies you that there is a hull breach now someone is on your ship.

Nope, instead some handheld "pirate" ganks you with some stupid ship and you have no retaliation.

This game is the furthest from a hardcore space game that it could be.

There is No ship hacking
There is No ship boarding
There is No dark dingy space bars to get stabbed in
There is No Manual controls or cockpit view of the ships
There is No fun.
There's more Pay to win than Play to win.
There are too many pussies flying around thinking they are bad ass just because they f people over. The people that DO NOT want to f people over are pretty much screwed when playing EVE.
Etc etc etc So many things I could list so many things that need fixed (bounty system, mining, tractor beam, null/sec/high, etc)

:P
Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#87 - 2011-11-10 18:28:55 UTC
The simple truth is that people confuse "freedom" for "hardcore" because of the nature of this particular medium. EVE as an MMO is a hell of a lot less limiting than the rest of the MMOs out there, and a hell of a lot less protective and restrictive of its players. A lot of what would be considered bannable griefing in World of Warcraft or Champions Online is perfectly legit in EVE. By the same token, EVE coddles its new players a lot less than other MMOs, dumping them in the deep end so to speak. This of course lowers its retention rate of new subscribers but also acts as a handy selection process for weeding out players who really couldn't survive. Yes, EVE is a harsh and unforgiving game, but that's because of the freedom. It has nothing to do with the game being, ahem, "hardcore".

Anyone complaining that the game has become "less hardcore" or needs to be made "more hardcore" is deluding themselves. The only major change to the hardcore-ness of the game that I can immediately think of in the entire time I've played EVE (and I first signed up in late 2005) is Warp To Zero, a change whose impact, while arguably making the game a little less hardcore, was entirely positive. WTZ made travelling long distances a mild irritation rather than an absolutely godawful chore, made gatecamps take actual effort (for a while at least) and made the game more accessible to new players.

The game does not need to be made "more hardcore", and people who worry that a given change will make the game "less hardcore" are entirely missing the point. A good change is one that increases player freedom, and a bad one is one that reduces it.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.
Sebastian N Cain
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#88 - 2011-11-10 19:21:12 UTC
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
The simple truth is that people confuse "freedom" for "hardcore" because of the nature of this particular medium. EVE as an MMO is a hell of a lot less limiting than the rest of the MMOs out there, and a hell of a lot less protective and restrictive of its players. A lot of what would be considered bannable griefing in World of Warcraft or Champions Online is perfectly legit in EVE. By the same token, EVE coddles its new players a lot less than other MMOs, dumping them in the deep end so to speak. This of course lowers its retention rate of new subscribers but also acts as a handy selection process for weeding out players who really couldn't survive. Yes, EVE is a harsh and unforgiving game, but that's because of the freedom. It has nothing to do with the game being, ahem, "hardcore".

Anyone complaining that the game has become "less hardcore" or needs to be made "more hardcore" is deluding themselves. The only major change to the hardcore-ness of the game that I can immediately think of in the entire time I've played EVE (and I first signed up in late 2005) is Warp To Zero, a change whose impact, while arguably making the game a little less hardcore, was entirely positive. WTZ made travelling long distances a mild irritation rather than an absolutely godawful chore, made gatecamps take actual effort (for a while at least) and made the game more accessible to new players.

The game does not need to be made "more hardcore", and people who worry that a given change will make the game "less hardcore" are entirely missing the point. A good change is one that increases player freedom, and a bad one is one that reduces it.


That´s bull. Freedom as a concept only works together with consequences. This game has too much freedom given the lack of consequences, that is the problem with current game mechanics, this is why gameplay for wusses is so widespread here.

So this game needs either less freedom or more consequences (more hardcore-ness). I´m for the latter, of course.

I got lost in thought... it was unfamiliar territory.
Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#89 - 2011-11-10 19:29:06 UTC
And why does the game need more hardcore-ness?

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.
Baraka Saibot
Wobbling Frog Inc
#90 - 2011-11-10 19:31:40 UTC
That's probably my only great fear in EVE... To forget to upgrade my clone and undock into a bubble...
Sebastian N Cain
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#91 - 2011-11-10 19:51:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Sebastian N Cain
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
And why does the game need more hardcore-ness?

To get some challenge into this game.
If you screw up, it´s not done with a few hours of missioning or something like this.
How about losing one of your highest-leveled skills everytime you lose your ship (like it´s with T3 now?) but not only a level, but the complete skill?

Sure, seems harsh. But the point is that with that you are getting really into your fights instead of having just a rather unexciting routine. And surviving or even winning a close fight is gonna put you on an endorphine-induced high instead of a mere "well, that was nice...."

Which results in far more satisfaction and kicks you can get out of this game. The very reason people are looking for challenges.

I got lost in thought... it was unfamiliar territory.
Texty
State War Academy
Caldari State
#92 - 2011-11-10 20:24:16 UTC
Karn Dulake wrote:
Its promoted as the coldest of the cold where anything goes but..not really

The point about this game is that you choice your level. I know hundreds of people in this game and most of them are hardly ever ganked or die for any reason. they mission, they mine, they build. When they die they normally die in wars or roams.

The only people i know who die on a regular basis are those in Nullsec running small gangs or fighting for space.


You can scam people in this game but all MMOs have plenty of scams and the moderators just accept it as part of the game.


As an example Diablo Hardcore is far tougher than EVE

You die once and once only and then you lose the character and all equipment they have. A Zod rune has a 50% chance of dropping for every 100,000 hours played.

Imagine dying in this game and losing your ship, everything in your hangars and waking up with 50k skillpoints instead of 50 million.

Its not as hardcore as people say it is.


Your angry thoughts please

EVE is not a game that you play because it's the most hard core game in the world. You play it, and I assume you are playing it because it's one of the best games in the world that you can have fun with and it being pretty hard core is only just one of the many good factors that lets EVE be what it is. We are not doing the "Who is playing the most hard core game ? race" so who cares if it's "not really" hard core as long as we are having fun ?
CausticS0da
Shrubbery Acquisitions
Blohm and Voss Shipyards Alliance
#93 - 2011-11-10 20:35:51 UTC
IMO, CCP has the balance close to perfect and I hope it stays this way. People are getting carried away with change.
Ptraci
3 R Corporation
#94 - 2011-11-10 21:23:30 UTC
Zowie Powers wrote:

Do you know what the greatest form of flattery is?


A facial?
Lyrrashae
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
#95 - 2011-11-11 06:23:13 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Jennifer Starling wrote:
Karn Dulake wrote:
As an example Diablo Hardcore is far tougher than EVE

You die once and once only and then you lose the character and all equipment they have. A Zod rune has a 50% chance of dropping for every 100,000 hours played.

Imagine dying in this game and (..) waking up with 50k skillpoints instead of 50 million.

Its not as hardcore as people say it is.

hardcore, nah, as you said there's not even permadeath!
The risk of really losing something substantial is very small for the average EVE player.

Imagine all the cowering vets when their preciousss SP suddely would be at stake. Unimaginable!


Imagine my reaction the other day when, after completing the Angel epic arc, I found myself camped into the final mission station in K-QW. It's a kickout, btw. I managed to get back inside because I'm pro at running away, and I thought, aha! I will jump clone out and foil those campers!

Opened character sheet, my eye happens to fall upon the dread words "CLONE GRADE ALPHA"....


...I'd been running around Curse for over a week in a 900k clone.


^^This man just won EVE. And he did it hard-core!

Ni.
Dyner
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#96 - 2011-11-11 06:29:57 UTC
Karn Dulake wrote:
Its promoted as the coldest of the cold where anything goes but..not really

The point about this game is that you choice your level. I know hundreds of people in this game and most of them are hardly ever ganked or die for any reason. they mission, they mine, they build. When they die they normally die in wars or roams.

The only people i know who die on a regular basis are those in Nullsec running small gangs or fighting for space.


You can scam people in this game but all MMOs have plenty of scams and the moderators just accept it as part of the game.


As an example Diablo Hardcore is far tougher than EVE

You die once and once only and then you lose the character and all equipment they have. A Zod rune has a 50% chance of dropping for every 100,000 hours played.

Imagine dying in this game and losing your ship, everything in your hangars and waking up with 50k skillpoints instead of 50 million.

Its not as hardcore as people say it is.


Your angry thoughts please



Dude, that's still not hardcore.

In a REAL hardcore game. If you died in-game; you'd die in real life. P
Ptraci
3 R Corporation
#97 - 2011-11-11 06:33:32 UTC
Lyrrashae wrote:

^^This man just won EVE. And he did it hard-core!


No. Hard-core would be if he had said "funk it", gotten podded anyway and taken the skill loss because he *just* *doesn't* *care*. Now THAT is hard-core.
Lyrrashae
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
#98 - 2011-11-11 06:35:10 UTC
Hyacinthous wrote:
Karn Dulake wrote:
Its promoted as the coldest of the cold where anything goes but..not really

The point about this game is that you choice your level. I know hundreds of people in this game and most of them are hardly ever ganked or die for any reason. they mission, they mine, they build. When they die they normally die in wars or roams.

The only people i know who die on a regular basis are those in Nullsec running small gangs or fighting for space.


You can scam people in this game but all MMOs have plenty of scams and the moderators just accept it as part of the game.


As an example Diablo Hardcore is far tougher than EVE

You die once and once only and then you lose the character and all equipment they have. A Zod rune has a 50% chance of dropping for every 100,000 hours played.

Imagine dying in this game and losing your ship, everything in your hangars and waking up with 50k skillpoints instead of 50 million.

Its not as hardcore as people say it is.


Your angry thoughts please


Nope, this game is the furthest from hardcore that any game could be. Currently in it's present state it is pretty much on the same level as a toddlers thought process. Considering it caters to weak bullies this is basically what it's saying "I can tag you but you can't tag me" but only allowing this perspective from people who want to abuse other people, not for people who don't want to abuse others and just exist.

This game is broken and the fact that bullies get hand held and can go and hide like pussies after abusing someone makes this game pretty pathetic, not hardcore at all. If there was proper retaliation methods against the pussies, then it would be a small bit better but not much.

It caters to dweeb bullies instead of to honorable legit people. This game could be 10,000 times better than it is but it is being held back by it's inept community and CCP's lack of interest for anything other than money.

Imagine, your ship gets hacked and you have no controls, it's flying wonky and everythings going off and on the lights are flashing and the warning sound is blaring, oh noes suddenly your computer notifies you that there is a hull breach now someone is on your ship.

Nope, instead some handheld "pirate" ganks you with some stupid ship and you have no retaliation.

This game is the furthest from a hardcore space game that it could be.

There is No ship hacking
There is No ship boarding
There is No dark dingy space bars to get stabbed in
There is No Manual controls or cockpit view of the ships
There is No fun.
There's more Pay to win than Play to win.
There are too many pussies flying around thinking they are bad ass just because they f people over. The people that DO NOT want to f people over are pretty much screwed when playing EVE.
Etc etc etc So many things I could list so many things that need fixed (bounty system, mining, tractor beam, null/sec/high, etc)

:P


Sorry, mate, but there's just nothing else to say to this:

I can haz ur stuffs?

Ni.