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Why "high sec bears" don't go to null

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Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#201 - 2013-08-01 00:07:00 UTC
Depends what you mean by easy to replace. My first battleships were Alphafleet scorpions, the reimbursement amount was 100mill at the time. That would mean about 40mins-1 hr to replace.

If losing hounds wasn't made nearly free by the 45million reimbursement, I would be able to rat about 2.5 per hour. Say 2, since I haven't ratted in a while.

Losing a supercarrier leaves the pilot out 20 billion isk even with the alliance reimbursement, so that's quite a lot more hours.


Also, ask PL about spending all their income on supercapitals.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#202 - 2013-08-01 00:10:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Herzog Wolfhammer
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
symolan wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:

In additon to stations, there is NOTHING stopping hi-sec players from doing what I and others do: Using a Carrier as a mobil cloak-capable logistics base


you made me smile.

yeah, one day I will have a carrier too.

what stops me now are the trivial things like

- SP
- ISK
- experience


So you're saying you don't have the SP, isk, or experience for a carrier?

Well, you just illustrated a big problem with how high sec people think, because at no point did you say "gee, I can't do it myself, maybe I'll make friends with someone who can. That's what i did before i could fly a carrier or even light a cyno.

Even then, if you focus and trains smart and learn and make/spend isk wisely , it doesn't even take long (in EVe terms) to get where you want to be. But you have to want to be able to do it. Those incursion runners flying 5 bil isk Vinicators and machariels found a way to get the isk and train up the SP, why can't you again?

It says a lot that the very 1st thing you think is "I can't do it". It means you don't want to, that's the point, high sec people could go to null today if they wanted to. They don't want to because it involves effort.




Thats nice and all but it does not provide a songle reason to go to null even if the guy has all the means to do it. What is the point of going through all those hoops. Is there something wrong about not going to null? Is someone's gaming time a complete waste because he didn't go to null sec as opposed to someone who do? No matter how easy, hard, safe or dangerous people will make null look like, as long as the player does not see a reason to go there, why would he? What enjoyment of the game will he get out of null sec?

Would it make people happy if I posted a pic of myself in VFK and one of the obvious lossmail stuck together with a caption over it saying : "I went to VFK and all I got is that lousy lossmail."

I really don't get whats the deal with people that seem forious about the fact that others don't enjoy the same thing as them in this god damn sandbox. Why can't people play with thier various miniature farming equipement while other make sandcastle wars?




Here's a pic of myself in VFK with a bubble I put up on Mittanigrad. Yeah I'm cloaked and I'm still in nullsec too.

El Linko!

It's not as hard as it seems. This was on a weekend roam.

A good time was had by all.



A REAL sandbox is when you don't accept the paradigms set up by other people. They say you can't go to null unless you become a member of a huge alliance. They say you don't make ISK out there (hah - we got people harvesting already and making enough to replace ships in the half the time it takes to run a highsec level 4). They say you will get blobbed in two minutes and die in a fire and then all the girls in RL will find out about it and not want to talk you you and your mommy won't love you anymore and your dog will pee on your leg and stuff.


BS

Get a ship together. Go.

If you get killed, dust off, get another ship, and go.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Malak Alraheem
Doomheim
#203 - 2013-08-01 00:11:13 UTC
Why I don't go to null... takes to ****ing long.
Aidan Brooder
Dynasphere Ltd.
#204 - 2013-08-01 00:13:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Aidan Brooder
There is Null and there is Null...

Before you even get to VFK or any core system on a direct route you'll see the first Null. Empty system after empty system with much better ressources than any High Sec system. Go further and you'll get to systems where you literally see no one EVER!

The only thing you see of "Sov" there is the SBUs.
Most of Null is empty & still profitable.

Of course I understand people who say: "Hell, I just don't want to risk being shot at at all by anything steered by a human... I want to feel like a hero killing enormous amounts of NPCs or stones..."

Don't go there then... Don't whine if they blast your miner ship in High Sec anyways.

The EVE universe is exactly what the whole of the playerbase makes of it... No more, no less.

Blog: http://aidanbrooder.wordpress.com My EVE Playlist on YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLSNuHY7z8n1q1BdLvW2verIfH8vvWtz_x
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#205 - 2013-08-01 00:16:41 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Depends what you mean by easy to replace. My first battleships were Alphafleet scorpions, the reimbursement amount was 100mill at the time. That would mean about 40mins-1 hr to replace.

If losing hounds wasn't made nearly free by the 45million reimbursement, I would be able to rat about 2.5 per hour. Say 2, since I haven't ratted in a while.

Losing a supercarrier leaves the pilot out 20 billion isk even with the alliance reimbursement, so that's quite a lot more hours.


Also, ask PL about spending all their income on supercapitals.


Now what if you 1- didn;t ahve the reimbursement to help you out and 2- weren't making close to those 100mill/hours?

The projection that people can make 100mill/hours in high sec are true. It's been proven. The real question is, are people actaully making those 100 mill or is it a minority actually pulling those numbers? I personally don't even after spending too much ISK on a ship I trained for because I though it looked nice.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#206 - 2013-08-01 00:21:13 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
symolan wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:

In additon to stations, there is NOTHING stopping hi-sec players from doing what I and others do: Using a Carrier as a mobil cloak-capable logistics base


you made me smile.

yeah, one day I will have a carrier too.

what stops me now are the trivial things like

- SP
- ISK
- experience


So you're saying you don't have the SP, isk, or experience for a carrier?

Well, you just illustrated a big problem with how high sec people think, because at no point did you say "gee, I can't do it myself, maybe I'll make friends with someone who can. That's what i did before i could fly a carrier or even light a cyno.

Even then, if you focus and trains smart and learn and make/spend isk wisely , it doesn't even take long (in EVe terms) to get where you want to be. But you have to want to be able to do it. Those incursion runners flying 5 bil isk Vinicators and machariels found a way to get the isk and train up the SP, why can't you again?

It says a lot that the very 1st thing you think is "I can't do it". It means you don't want to, that's the point, high sec people could go to null today if they wanted to. They don't want to because it involves effort.




Thats nice and all but it does not provide a songle reason to go to null even if the guy has all the means to do it. What is the point of going through all those hoops. Is there something wrong about not going to null? Is someone's gaming time a complete waste because he didn't go to null sec as opposed to someone who do? No matter how easy, hard, safe or dangerous people will make null look like, as long as the player does not see a reason to go there, why would he? What enjoyment of the game will he get out of null sec?

Would it make people happy if I posted a pic of myself in VFK and one of the obvious lossmail stuck together with a caption over it saying : "I went to VFK and all I got is that lousy lossmail."

I really don't get whats the deal with people that seem forious about the fact that others don't enjoy the same thing as them in this god damn sandbox. Why can't people play with thier various miniature farming equipement while other make sandcastle wars?




Here's a pic of myself in VFK with a bubble I put up on Mittanigrad. Yeah I'm cloaked and I'm still in nullsec too.

El Linko!

It's not as hard as it seems. This was on a weekend roam.

A good time was had by all.



A REAL sandbox is when you don't accept the paradigms set up by other people. They say you can't go to null unless you become a member of a huge alliance. They say you don't make ISK out there (hah - we got people harvesting already and making enough to replace ships in the half the time it takes to run a highsec level 4). They say you will get blobbed in two minutes and die in a fire and then all the girls in RL will find out about it and not want to talk you you and your mommy won't love you anymore and your dog will pee on your leg and stuff.


BS

Get a ship together. Go.

If you get killed, dust off, get another ship, and go.


I enver said I could not go. I said I see no point to going there. It's a video game. I am not gonna head to null for ISKs as it's a supid idea as a solo player. If I head there, I expect to get some fun out of it because thats one of the 2 things I play video games for. The other being to chill off after a day at work. Will I get any of that in null? If yes then do tell me where this barrel-o-fun is in null because everything I read about it is "It's the same **** as high sec except you add a layer of risk and potentially a layer of politics/drama. Thats not really convincing as fun to me.
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#207 - 2013-08-01 00:28:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Herzog Wolfhammer
Frostys Virpio wrote:


I enver said I could not go. I said I see no point to going there. It's a video game. I am not gonna head to null for ISKs as it's a supid idea as a solo player. If I head there, I expect to get some fun out of it because thats one of the 2 things I play video games for. The other being to chill off after a day at work. Will I get any of that in null? If yes then do tell me where this barrel-o-fun is in null because everything I read about it is "It's the same **** as high sec except you add a layer of risk and potentially a layer of politics/drama. Thats not really convincing as fun to me.




Open your mind.

If it's all about ISK for you, then I don't know what game you are playing.

You can go to nullsec and hunt people like animals. This "risk" you speak of.. your risk? So what. You want to relax when you play a game, then learn to relax with this one and stop worrying about risk, or find another game.

Go without becoming an alliance renter slave and you skip the drama. BE the hunter and not the hunted and you won't be the one trying to carebear it up out there worrying if someone is going to attack you. You be the one who is doing the attacking.

All this drama and fear about nullsec is tinfoil hattery to keep people away.


The donut is a lie.


I've said what I have to say. I will say no more.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Aidan Brooder
Dynasphere Ltd.
#208 - 2013-08-01 00:33:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Aidan Brooder
Frostys Virpio wrote:


I enver said I could not go. I said I see no point to going there. It's a video game. I am not gonna head to null for ISKs as it's a supid idea as a solo player. If I head there, I expect to get some fun out of it because thats one of the 2 things I play video games for. The other being to chill off after a day at work. Will I get any of that in null? If yes then do tell me [/b]where this barrel-o-fun is in null because[b] everything I read about it is "It's the same **** as high sec except you add a layer of risk and potentially a layer of politics/drama. Thats not really convincing as fun to me.


Bolded & Underlined the important part.

If you ever want to really find out yourself one day instead of reading what others (including me) say or waiting for us all to tell you our versions, feel free to contact me for some suggestions - which you can ignore -, some ears that will listen and perhaps some help to get you started.

Imagine you were a cook and said: "Ah, well, I heard Boef Stroganoff is real hard to get right. So why bother? Can someone tell me what it tastes like?"
You start down that road, you'll never know how easy Sushi Maki are done. ;)

Blog: http://aidanbrooder.wordpress.com My EVE Playlist on YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLSNuHY7z8n1q1BdLvW2verIfH8vvWtz_x
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#209 - 2013-08-01 00:35:25 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:


I enver said I could not go. I said I see no point to going there. It's a video game. I am not gonna head to null for ISKs as it's a supid idea as a solo player. If I head there, I expect to get some fun out of it because thats one of the 2 things I play video games for. The other being to chill off after a day at work. Will I get any of that in null? If yes then do tell me where this barrel-o-fun is in null because everything I read about it is "It's the same **** as high sec except you add a layer of risk and potentially a layer of politics/drama. Thats not really convincing as fun to me.




Open your mind.

If it's all about ISK for you, then I don't know what game you are playing.

You can go to nullsec and hunt people like animals. This "risk" you speak of.. your risk? So what. You want to relax when you play a game, then learn to relax with this one and stop worrying about risk, or find another game.

Go without becoming an alliance renter slave and you skip the drama. BE the hunter and not the hunted and you won't be the one trying to carebear it up out there worrying if someone is going to attack you. You be the one who is doing the attacking.

All this drama and fear about nullsec is tinfoil hattery to keep people away.

I've said what I have to say. I will say no more.



If it was about the ISK, I would not have an underperforming BS faction BS in ym ahngar. I would of bought the better performing one insetad of the one I liked the look of better.

Never really got the thrill of hunting people tbh. I do my hunting in the forest during a few weeks in fall and thats allright with me.

I ahve yet to feel hunted in this game either. They said it was super dangerous and miners were getting blowup left and right. My insurance is expired on my retriever and that DCU looks like a wasted low up until now.

They keep saying EVE is real but the drama is all tinfoil hattery and amde up to keep people out? Then there are people askign why I don't go in? Where the hell is this leading?

You still haven't convinced me that I will find more fun than I do in High sec. But I'm giving you the benefit out doubt, I'm buying a ship in Jita right now while thinking who I should pay a visit to.
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#210 - 2013-08-01 00:45:33 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Excellent, you've now seen for yourself why so many of us are keen to see some kind of remotely balanced situation between hi-sec and 0.0 rather than the current situation where there no reason whatsoever to be in sov 0.0 unless you're sitting on a titan waiting to bridge in.


Having more stations to be barred from docking in won't alter the scenario that Infinity Ziona describes. Having triple the payout from PvE activities won't stop people docking up when non-blues appear in local.

So which part of Infinity Ziona's story reflects the need for some "remotely balanced situation between hi-sec and 0.0"?

Do you want NPC cops in nullsec? NPC stations where visitors can dock up when local gets too busy?

Day 0 Advice for New Players
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#211 - 2013-08-01 02:49:48 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:


SNIP

But I'm giving you the benefit out doubt, I'm buying a ship in Jita right now while thinking who I should pay a visit to.


I went, I saw and well, I lost my ship.

Whats the difference between the bubbles anyway? I got out fo one that seemed like a normal shield but I got killed in one that was flashing with lightning. Any explanation would be fun.
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#212 - 2013-08-01 04:44:34 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:


SNIP

But I'm giving you the benefit out doubt, I'm buying a ship in Jita right now while thinking who I should pay a visit to.


I went, I saw and well, I lost my ship.

Whats the difference between the bubbles anyway? I got out fo one that seemed like a normal shield but I got killed in one that was flashing with lightning. Any explanation would be fun.

Well at least you tried. Google bubbles and avoiding them, they're heaps easy to avoid. Usually just dscanning and warping in from a safespot between two points will do the trick.


CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#213 - 2013-08-01 04:49:28 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:


SNIP

But I'm giving you the benefit out doubt, I'm buying a ship in Jita right now while thinking who I should pay a visit to.


I went, I saw and well, I lost my ship.

Whats the difference between the bubbles anyway? I got out fo one that seemed like a normal shield but I got killed in one that was flashing with lightning. Any explanation would be fun.

Well at least you tried. Google bubbles and avoiding them, they're heaps easy to avoid. Usually just dscanning and warping in from a safespot between two points will do the trick.




Someone had tipped me about where a battle was happening so I could go die in a glorious way so from there I stopped going in crazy pattern from planet to planet (I don't have any BM/safe in there obviously) and went gate to gate in the hope of not being late. Died at the last gate IIRC.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#214 - 2013-08-01 04:57:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Alavaria Fera
There are anchorable bubbles and then there's dictor/hictor bubbles. You died to a sabre, so it was an (inter)dictor bubble.

They both do the same time - stop you from warping in an area of effect. They look different, however if I remember.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
SmilingVagrant
Doomheim
#215 - 2013-08-01 05:01:57 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
There are anchorable bubbles and then there's dictor/hictor bubbles. You died to a sabre, so it was an (inter)dictor bubble.

They both do the same time - stop you from warping in an area of effect. They look different, however if I remember.


Dictor bubbles appear oblong and oscillate, you learn to differentiate them fairly easily.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#216 - 2013-08-01 05:02:48 UTC
All I know is sometimes the server gives up rendering them and there are "invisible" bubbles that we welp bombers into.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#217 - 2013-08-01 05:04:12 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Someone had tipped me about where a battle was happening so I could go die in a glorious way so from there I stopped going in crazy pattern from planet to planet (I don't have any BM/safe in there obviously) and went gate to gate in the hope of not being late. Died at the last gate IIRC.

If you use a covert ops frigate, you can easily evade bubble camps (but obviously not smart-bomb camps).

With a covert ops, interdiction nullified T3, you can get much further. But you can still be caught by smart bomb camps, though fairly unlikely given the higher ehp those ships have,

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Chopper Rollins
hahahlolspycorp
#218 - 2013-08-01 06:32:30 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Chopper Rollins wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Cat Casidy wrote:
Flying for three hours in one direction, repeatedly, is boring which is why no one does it. Discuss.

That is not the issue. The issue is there is no incentive to travel out there due to lack of ability to fit, repair, reship and rearm. As stated earlier, nullsec is constant bagging high seccers for being too scared to go to null. My suggestion was rather than fear it has more to do with those problems.

If you are unable to contribute but would rather derail the thread with stupid, go ahead.


*Snip*

Sorry for poast longer than a T-shirt slogan but your oblivious, can't be told anything attitude just doesn't fit with your fail tactics and run-of-the-mill style.

I'm not doing too bad with my fail tactics and fail shield fit - still alive and have 15 kills. Not too bad for high sec carebear imo.


You snipped out my whole point and only responded to the bit that could be construed as an attack on your ego? And a DEM STATS response as well?
Well i rest my case.


Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#219 - 2013-08-01 06:41:57 UTC
Chopper Rollins wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Chopper Rollins wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Cat Casidy wrote:
Flying for three hours in one direction, repeatedly, is boring which is why no one does it. Discuss.

That is not the issue. The issue is there is no incentive to travel out there due to lack of ability to fit, repair, reship and rearm. As stated earlier, nullsec is constant bagging high seccers for being too scared to go to null. My suggestion was rather than fear it has more to do with those problems.

If you are unable to contribute but would rather derail the thread with stupid, go ahead.


*Snip*

Sorry for poast longer than a T-shirt slogan but your oblivious, can't be told anything attitude just doesn't fit with your fail tactics and run-of-the-mill style.

I'm not doing too bad with my fail tactics and fail shield fit - still alive and have 15 kills. Not too bad for high sec carebear imo.


You snipped out my whole point and only responded to the bit that could be construed as an attack on your ego? And a DEM STATS response as well?
Well i rest my case.



I snipped out most of your post because its been suggested and pointed out and responded to many times already. I responded to your attack on my tactics by pointing out they don't appear to be failing that badly.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Xolve
State War Academy
Caldari State
#220 - 2013-08-01 07:28:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Xolve
I can think of at least 20 places to go and get a 'fight' that are less than 30 jumps from Jita; Sov Null is probably the WORST place to go look for anything but ratter kills before you get home defense'd by 20 angry nerds for messing with their isk:hour.

If you're baiting those 20 out though, that's an entirely different story.