These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
12Next page
 

Interstellar Travel vs Crossing The Room (Discuss Thread)
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Lee Hekard
Doomheim
#1 - 2013-07-30 20:44:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Lee Hekard
Space may be big, but only relative to our own perception of size. For example, given a room that we must cross that is, say, six feet wide, we can measure the width of this room and plot an infinite number of points at any position from one side to the other. Now, we have to cross the room; but how do we do this when there are an infinite number of points to visit?
ElQuirko
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2013-07-30 20:45:35 UTC
Mhm, yup, words.

Dodixie > Hek
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#3 - 2013-07-30 20:50:32 UTC
Is this a 'Yo Momma is so fat' thread?

Also, giant moon based slingshot ala Wiley Coyote. Good for crossing rooms, states, countries and any interstellar distance. I wouldn't recommend attempting to cross any kind of canyon though, as it seems slingshot reliability over chasms is somewhat dodgy at best.

Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings
#4 - 2013-07-30 21:44:50 UTC
Whatever you say, Zeno.
Oberine Noriepa
#5 - 2013-07-30 21:46:09 UTC
Use calculus.

∃
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings
#6 - 2013-07-30 21:47:41 UTC
Oberine Noriepa wrote:
Use calculus.


Or just walk across the room.
stoicfaux
#7 - 2013-07-30 21:49:18 UTC
Engineer's approximation will get you across. Also, I'm not a physicist, but the Planck Length/Constant should get you around the infinity problem.

And if you're in management, just have an underling cross the room for you. What good is power if you can't abuse it?

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Kazuma Ry
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#8 - 2013-07-30 21:50:00 UTC
When you run into the problem of infinte numbers of points to visit from your initial starting point, you should plot the quickest route to a liquor source, and get too it asap.

This will solve the problem of visiting points of interest that don't contain liquor.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#9 - 2013-07-30 21:50:10 UTC
Lee Hekard wrote:
Now, we have to cross the room; but how do we do this when there are an infinite number of points to visit?
By realising the that the number of points in both time and space are finite.

As for the space travel, it's a lot easier. You just move space around the ship instead of moving the ship around in space.
Schalac
Apocalypse Reign
#10 - 2013-07-30 21:57:50 UTC
And if we follow M. Night Shaymalan cannon, the super soaker is the best weapon to have in an alien invasion.

SCHALAC HAS SPOKEN!! http://eveboard.com/pilot/Schalac
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings
#11 - 2013-07-31 00:28:23 UTC
Schalac wrote:
And if we follow M. Night Shaymalan cannon, the super soaker is the best weapon to have in an alien invasion.


Water balloons.

OH THE HUMANITY!
KuroVolt
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2013-07-31 01:27:49 UTC
I didnt actually read the OP, but you blew my mind anyway! :O

BoBwins Law: As a discussion/war between two large nullsec entities grows longer, the probability of one comparing the other to BoB aproaches near certainty.
Lipbite
Express Hauler
#13 - 2013-07-31 01:41:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Lipbite
You can force [part of] room to move you while you are staying "immobile": thing is called Alcubierre drive, I heard there are laboratory experiments already to confirm its possibility (NASA sponsor experiments to find out if it's possible to bend space-time in laboratory).
EvilweaselSA
GoonCorp
Goonswarm Federation
#14 - 2013-07-31 02:34:03 UTC
Lee Hekard wrote:
Space may be big, but only relative to our own perception of size. For example, given a room that we must cross that is, say, six feet wide, we can measure the width of this room and plot an infinite number of points at any position from one side to the other. Now, we have to cross the room; but how do we do this when there are an infinite number of points to visit?

because an infinite series (the time it takes to go between each point between you and the end of the room) can add up to a finite number
Ptraci
3 R Corporation
#15 - 2013-07-31 23:56:19 UTC
This is where "the shortest distance between two points is a straight line" comes in to play. If you know your starting position and your destination, it becomes trivial to visit all the infinite points that are on that line by taking advantage of the fact that motion really doesn't care about "points" since those are an artificial construct that don't actually exist.
Rhys Thoth
Endland
#16 - 2013-08-01 00:23:24 UTC
For some reason, this thread makes me want to drink a bottle of cough syrup and watch philosophy lectures while posting to GD.

I don't always undock, but when I do... no wait, I acutally never undock.
Klandi
Consortium of stella Technologies
#17 - 2013-08-01 01:02:03 UTC
Does it really matter if there is no bacon? Eating cakes that are had maybe but THE BACON!!!!!

I am aware of my own ignorance and have checked my emotional quotient - thanks for asking
Inokuma Yawara
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2013-08-01 01:23:24 UTC
Lipbite wrote:
You can force [part of] room to move you while you are staying "immobile": thing is called Alcubierre drive, I heard there are laboratory experiments already to confirm its possibility (NASA sponsor experiments to find out if it's possible to bend space-time in laboratory).


They should really be doing that in deep space - out by the asteroids. You know, so that time-space don't warp and bend and cause the Earth to implode.

Watch this space.  New exciting signature in development.
Jonathan Peak
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2013-08-01 03:28:39 UTC
Stories of NASA attempting to confirm the feasibility of the Alcubierre drive are a bit overblown. The theory behind the drive requires the existence of exotic matter with negative energy density. There is no evidence that such exotic matter exists. Currently the drive is a fun mathematical curiosity which may not be physically meaningful.

As for the subject of the OP, as mentioned previously, solvitur ambulando. :P

More seriously, attempting to directly apply concepts involving infinity to the real world can be problematic. For instance, it can be shown that there are as many points in the interval [0,1] as there are in the interval [0,2], but at the end of the day, a length of 2 is greater than a length of 1. Of course, using a different context (maybe involving the hyperreal numbers or something similar), it probably makes more sense to say that [0,1] contains half as many points as [0,2]. Mathematics isn't nearly as set in stone as one might think given standard primary and secondary education. Choices of axioms, models, languages, etc. can have a big impact on the conclusions that can be drawn. For a fun example maybe somewhat related, check out the Banach-Tarski paradox.

Also, spacetime may be discrete. Whether there exists a quantum of spacetime is an open question, but if there is one, then the paradox can be resolved that way. Of course, discretization of spacetime leads to its own problems.

Reading up on Zeno's paradoxes of motion and their proposed solutions might be worthwhile.
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#20 - 2013-08-01 03:38:35 UTC
Since there are infinitely many points across the room, you must necessarily always be travelling with infinite speed even when standing in one place, breathing.

The major flaw in your logic was assuming a fixed rate of travel from point to point, then increasing the number of points per unit distance without altering the rate of travel from point to point. This error could have been corrected in any number of ways, my favourite being to adjust the frame of reference to the abstract space containing the room and the infinite number of points,with all measurement done in absolute units based on that a strict frame of reference rather than the multitudinous possible frames within that space.

Thus it will always take you the same amount of time to cross the room, no matter how many points you can plot in the space contained by the room. You will simply travel through more points per time unit as the number of points per length unit increases.

Day 0 Advice for New Players
12Next page