Out of Pod Experience

That's putting the cart before the horse. States are infiltrated by banks because the state political elite own the banks. Not because a bank willed a state into existence due to the implicit power of banking. Banks are limited by the willingness of customers to use their service, only with the power of the state do they become that influential. Hence my assertion that removing the state from the equation renders them powerless.



I think you're giving them the benefit of the doubt here. The explicit purpose of regulation is to strangle the little guy. To prevent competition is to control the market. That is the power of the state and that is why when a powerful state exists, banks and other industries do their best to cozy up to the political elite (if they aren't the political elite already, as is often the case).



Again, I think you give politicians too much credit. They're not after preventing corruption. They profit from corruption. If they somehow eradicated corruption, many of their bureaucrats would be out of a job and their influence over society would massively wane.



Once more, monopolies come from state power. They do not exist in a free market. It's just basic economics. You cannot raise perfect barriers to entry when you don't control the money supply, have coercive power over your competition, or otherwise dominate the legality of entering the market.

Similarly, oligarchies of the current state apparatus are not likely to grow in the absence of the state. As you have pointed out, these oligarchs are both members of the state power elite and the banking oligarchy. So it stands to reason that removing their state authority is tantamount to destroying their business. If your business model relies heavily on your ability to simply print money into your own bank account, when that is no longer an option, you're bankrupt.

So the most probably outcome of removing state regulatory power from the equation is that corrupt and monolithic institutions like these banks disappear over-night and small businesses, previously unable to enter the market, take their place and compete amongst themselves, providing all the goods and services people now want, but cannot get or cannot afford because of the inefficiency and restriction of the state monopoly/oligopoly.

I'm glad we're in agreement, although I don't know what that stipulation entails.



Well, unfortunately this isn't just an opinion. It's an objective fact of our shared reality. Which is precisely why it's such an important point. If more people realize what exactly they need to avoid (coercive power from the state and it's complicit banks and corporations) they are better equipped to make intelligent choices for their own future, for the future of their community, etc.

So to tie it back in to what I was originally talking about here, vis a vi Detroit, I think this is a microcosm for the debt-funded government system anywhere else. The extent to which people here develop voluntary solutions in the absence of failing coercive state institutions paves the way for people who will be facing the same problems across the world in the years to come.

...



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PSY?

That's pretty similar to what's happening here except I think many of the professionals don't know where to go yet. They're moving to parts of the country with less regulation now, but pretty soon they'll be looking outside the continent. The ones who still have job security work for the government, so they will be riding the ship down to the bottom.



I think there's a chance for everywhere. What you describe sounds like Portugal is already well on the way to being Detroit. Maybe people there will also get some of these crazy ideas and start doing business with each other once the system is too weak and collapsed to keep the regulatory burden on everyone.

Ghost towns are scary, but every failure by the state is a market opportunity for people who are creative enough to build something out of the ashes. Best of luck to you!

Macro-level "solutions," are the problem. The real solution, as I said, is voluntary markets between individuals. The simplest form of that is barter, but cash and cryptocurrency industries are emerging everywhere. Chances are you have a skill that someone will compensate you for. The hard part is figuring out how to capitalize on those skills. Living on the grey market isn't easy, which is why lax-enforcement in places like Detroit are so desirable.

The first step is to get your mind out of the "I need to find a job/employer," paradigm. Nobody wants to hire right now, for good reason. Think of a way to start your own business or partner up with someone to do it.

[quote=Tumahub]Macro-level "solutions," are the problem. The real solution, as I said, is voluntary markets between individuals. The simplest form of that is barter, but cash and cryptocurrency industries are emerging everywhere. Chances are you have a skill that someone will compensate you for. The hard part is figuring out how to capitalize on those skills. Living on the grey market isn't easy, which is why lax-enforcement in places like Detroit are so desirable.

The first step is to get your mind out of the "I need to find a job/employer," paradigm. Nobody wants to hire right now, for good reason. Think of a way to start your own business or partner up with someone to do it.[/qu

cryptocurrency doesn't pay your council tax ..or your mortgage

But he's in the EU, couldn't he have moved to London or something?

it's either that, or getting paid with breadcrumbs and water. culture here is, boss wants you to work till you drop dead, 48 hours a day if possible and not getting paid more for that, and he can fire you whenever, wherever, whatever, which means social security and unemployment payments are pretty much the only safety net you have. In sum, in the private sector, you getting paid is a hassle, and you work to keep your work, not to get a bonus at the end of the month. You did something awesome? Great, that's what your paid for, what took you so long? Here's a pat on the back and your job safety for another month/week/day.
Public sector has higher-than-average salary with a much more stable job, but forget about efficiency.

average pay in the private sector here is about 700/800€ month, with a great slice getting no more than 500€, a bit above minimum wage. average housing payment is about 300€. only until a very short time ago, it was much more easy and rentable to buy a house and pay it in 30 years (no joke) instead of actually rent a house.

you get "free" medical service, but it's crumbling under the weight of corruption, bad management and an increasingly old population that has about 200/300€ of monthly retirement pension for like 70% of the elderly. not joking here, there's like a very small group of people that get pay a "golden retirement pension", about 1000 people, and those guys suck up nearly a third of the entire cake. and what are they? former bankers with connection to the state. Hell, since the crisis started, instead of healing, the medical system has been giving only token palliative care to the elder that end up in the hospital. You can't contribute any more? better let you die then, it's cheaper that way.

FYI, as far as utilities go, there are places where you pay an average of 50€ a month for having tap water, 50€ is about what you spend on electricity. luckily gas is cheaper. add up all that with the rent above, and you know why people are going back to living with their parents.



in sum, the fact that we have regulation is what makes it still stand up, or else our unemployment rate would've been of about 25%, and not 19 or something, and there would be a lot more people without a ceiling over their heads.



he could if he had the money. unfortunately, he had to spend a small fortune in his education, like everybody who even started elementary school, so he had to stay to at least having money to eat in the end of the month. It's easy to move out inside the EU, if you have money.

Track down the original perpetrators?

You could start with the city's white, mostly middle-class population which numbered 1,550,000 in 1950 that moved out of Detroit over the last 6 decades, completely destroying the property tax base of the city. There were, in fact, only 75,000 whites left in Detroit in 2010.

Or consider how Ford moved large parts of their production to Mexico, and GM to Ontario in the 70s and 80s, along with auto parts manufacturers, completely destroying the industrial fabric of the city.

The combination of the above two completely destroyed the city's commercial fabric. And the commercial + industrial + residential losses completely eroded the business tax base of Detroit as well.

That's what "led to this". People can backbite, recriminate, and look for scapegoats all they want, but the simple fact of the matter is that no matter how well the city's managers/govt responded to the aforementioned changes, Detroit would likely not be much better off than it is now.

duglas Luven wrote:

60 years of democrat control.
This is what you get:

high taxes. high unemployment

The problem with liberalism is at some point you run out of other people's money.

Hells Merc wrote:

flucking progressives/liberals/lefties flucked up another city I see....
Never ending circle jerk of stupidity propagated by the politicians and people of said city.....

Awwww aren't you two cute. The little neocon pubies are upset that the lefties do it better than their daddies do

EDIT: I will let the good discussion move ahead after my troll. I could not let it slide My apologies.