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Tidi is gamebreaking for the smaller side

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Jill Xelitras
Xeltec services
#61 - 2013-07-30 19:43:36 UTC
Mr R4nd0m wrote:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lag

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lag_(online_gaming)

i would be interested to know how tidi IS different?


From your link:
Quote:
Lag is a common word meaning to fail to keep up or to fall behind


TiDi is 100% intentional. It's not failing to keep up or falling behind.

What's next ?
SlowMo in a movie ... OMG lag !
Bullet-time in an FPS ... OMG lag !
Clocks being turned back for Wintertime ... OMG lag !

Big smile

Don't anger the forum gods.

ISD Buldath:

> I Saw, I came, I Frowned, I locked, I posted, and I left.
Lord Charles Gatsby
Doomheim
#62 - 2013-07-30 19:43:42 UTC
Kitty Baugh wrote:
Lord Charles Gatsby wrote:
What is so great about fountain anyhow ? im making billions every day in Jita Amarr and Rens on trades.


Dont be a slave too your 0.0 overlords who expect you to give up your time to defend Thier assets: thier moons thier intrests.

Dont work for someone else's dreams.


Stop derailing the thread
This is not about fountain or the events of the fountain conflict, there are other threads about them and you should go there to discuss them, not here.

This thread is about Tidi and its effects on those fighting under it.



Well theres no real reason to discuss TiDi all it is is LAg under a different name. What happens is everything goes really slowly and it makes the game breakdown so much its just rediculous. Not a lot else to say about it.

What do you expect. Was only 10 years ago that 16vs 16 on Counterstrike source seemed like the future of multiplayter gaming.
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#63 - 2013-07-30 19:44:37 UTC
tiberiusric wrote:

No your right, i havent been involved in it at all.....Roll Your right, tidi as made it so much better....Roll



Does grid load? Yes
Do bombs work? Yes, I remember bombs just staying in place at around 700 local
Drones respond? Yes
Module's work? Yes

CLUSTER CRASH, No.

Yup, sounds a lot better than the bad old days.
Kitty Baugh
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#64 - 2013-07-30 19:45:14 UTC
Sarah McKnobbo wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:
If I can hear someone saying they are pressing a button over comms and 20 minutes later I can see the action start to happen... that's TiDi.

It's not enough. It's not a fix. It's the best currently available answer.


FTFY

TiDi isn't lag. Lag suggests the client and server are out of sync. This doesnt happen with TiDi.

This doesnt happen with Tidi?
In some of the bigger fights which are at max Tidi, I can click my modules ad it takes over 2 minutes for them to activate, changing crystals in beam weapons took the duration of <20 AU warp at max tidi and a few minutes afterwards
Sarah McKnobbo
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#65 - 2013-07-30 19:46:54 UTC
Kitty Baugh wrote:
Sarah McKnobbo wrote:
Kitty Baugh wrote:

Time dilation is gamebreaking for the smaller side, simply because it gives the bigger side 10x the time to ping and get people online.


Umm CFC lost a titan the other day and TiDi worked against them, slowing their logging, forming and reacting so, no, not really.

And the failed titan gank was more to do with the fact it was in a staging system, allowing quick response time for the rescuers.

Stop talking about last nights failed titan gank please
my original post was an example of how Tidi works against smaller forces


It was a perfectly valid example of TiDi working against the larger force. As you explicitly stated the opposite in your OP.
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#66 - 2013-07-30 19:50:25 UTC
Kitty Baugh wrote:
Sarah McKnobbo wrote:
Kitty Baugh wrote:

Time dilation is gamebreaking for the smaller side, simply because it gives the bigger side 10x the time to ping and get people online.


Umm CFC lost a titan the other day and TiDi worked against them, slowing their logging, forming and reacting so, no, not really.

And the failed titan gank was more to do with the fact it was in a staging system, allowing quick response time for the rescuers.

Stop talking about last nights failed titan gank please
my original post was an example of how Tidi works against smaller forces


That wasn't last night, it was Sunday's shananigans after 6VDT, and the titan was successfully ganked that time.

A titan was bumped and tackled and we couldn't get a savior fleet into system because 6VDT was running real time and 1400 raging Clusterfuckians rage logging brought our staging sysetm to 10% TiDi.

We couldn't get there fast enough.
Sarah McKnobbo
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#67 - 2013-07-30 19:51:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Sarah McKnobbo
Kitty Baugh wrote:
Sarah McKnobbo wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:
If I can hear someone saying they are pressing a button over comms and 20 minutes later I can see the action start to happen... that's TiDi.

It's not enough. It's not a fix. It's the best currently available answer.


FTFY

TiDi isn't lag. Lag suggests the client and server are out of sync. This doesnt happen with TiDi.

This doesnt happen with Tidi?

No. The client and server are still in sync with TiDi, it may not keep up with your inputs but it is still in-sync. Its intentional, lag isn't. Yes there's a delay but unfortunately thats unavoidable.
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#68 - 2013-07-30 19:53:03 UTC
Tippia wrote:
..



Slowdown, Tidi, lag... all the same.

If I have 100% real time and I press a button and the server accepts my input and shows me an immediate result, it's working as intended.

Now, in regards to slowdown tidi lag **** all, if I press a button and don't see a result, it's slowdown/tidi/lag/fuckallbadshit.

If I blackscreen from server overload and cannot press a button with immediate result it's slowdown/tidi/lag/fuckallbadshit.

Regardless of the color of sprinkles you want to put on that piece of ****, it's still ****.

Both result in the same thing; me not having a direct response from me pressing a button.

But that's not even the biggest element here in this thread, because TiDi is going to help the smaller guy out more often than not because in a game where client commands creates lag/slowdown/tidi/fuckallbadshit... the larger force is usually the culprit and therefore does not need to depend on skill but brute force basically decapitating the smaller force who has to focus on their reaction times in game that's subject to hardware limitations (contrary to what Eve advertises itself as having).

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Rodney Pooner
FOUNDRY HEAVY INDUSTRY
#69 - 2013-07-30 19:54:01 UTC
Kitty Baugh wrote:
Sarah McKnobbo wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:
If I can hear someone saying they are pressing a button over comms and 20 minutes later I can see the action start to happen... that's TiDi.

It's not enough. It's not a fix. It's the best currently available answer.


FTFY

TiDi isn't lag. Lag suggests the client and server are out of sync. This doesnt happen with TiDi.

This doesnt happen with Tidi?
In some of the bigger fights which are at max Tidi, I can click my modules ad it takes over 2 minutes for them to activate, changing crystals in beam weapons took the duration of <20 AU warp at max tidi and a few minutes afterwards


TiDi is not the perfect solution, but it is a far better solution than the old lag/crash fest of the old days.

You have to adjust your tactics to the mechanics, it was mentioned about the 6VDT gank where the mass undocking in 4-EP cause 10% TiDI while Test ans friends were happily blapping away at the titan in relative safety.

While TiDi in 4-ep last night worked to test and friends disadvantage.

Use the mechanics of the game and adjust your tactics. The game isnt broke, your tactics are lacking.
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#70 - 2013-07-30 19:54:13 UTC
So if there was really any question.

The TiDi givith
http://themittani.com/news/4-ep-titan-gank-goes-awry-capital-battle-results

....and the TiDi taketh away
http://themittani.com/news/alod-third-time-charm


It doesn't only work for the larger party. Trust me.
Sarah McKnobbo
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#71 - 2013-07-30 19:56:14 UTC
Onictus wrote:
So if there was really any question.

The TiDi givith
http://themittani.com/news/4-ep-titan-gank-goes-awry-capital-battle-results

....and the TiDi taketh away
http://themittani.com/news/alod-third-time-charm


It doesn't only work for the larger party. Trust me.


OP, these are the 2 different examples I was referring to.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#72 - 2013-07-30 19:56:35 UTC
Lord Charles Gatsby wrote:
Well theres no real reason to discuss TiDi all it is is LAg under a different name. What happens is everything goes really slowly and it makes the game breakdown so much its just rediculous. Not a lot else to say about it.
…apart from the bit where TiDi very specifically is not lag and that everything goes really slowly and it makes the game not break down. In fact, that's kind of the point of TiDi: to ensure that the game stays the same and none of the gamebreaking effects of serverload-induced lag occur.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#73 - 2013-07-30 19:57:05 UTC
Firstly, TiDi doesn't give any advantage to the larger side. If anything, it gives a huge advantage to the smaller side during a significant fleet action, allowing them time to scramble reinforcements before incurring the same losses they would during normal time against a larger fleet. Duh.

Secondly, I have never heard anyone who played the game before TiDi existed, complain about it. So if you think the game would be better without it, sorry, but you're a noob. "oh, but get better equipment"... it doesn't exist. Google itself could not handle real time client(there's the key term btw, real time) server interactions at this level. If you think it can be done (with your undoubtedly expert network knowledge) then prove CCP wrong and do it yourself. Otherwise, just shut up.

It's the preferable alternative to the game crashing, or warping in and ending up dead. If you think gatecamps are bad now? Try jumping into a system, closing your eyes for 90 seconds, and only then can you start to move your ship.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Kitty Baugh
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#74 - 2013-07-30 19:59:30 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Firstly, TiDi doesn't give any advantage to the larger side. If anything, it gives a huge advantage to the smaller side during a significant fleet action, allowing them time to scramble reinforcements before incurring the same losses they would during normal time against a larger fleet. Duh.

Secondly, I have never heard anyone who played the game before TiDi existed, complain about it. So if you think the game would be better without it, sorry, but you're a noob. "oh, but get better equipment"... it doesn't exist. Google itself could not handle real time client(there's the key term btw, real time) server interactions at this level. If you think it can be done (with your undoubtedly expert network knowledge) then prove CCP wrong and do it yourself. Otherwise, just shut up.

It's the preferable alternative to the game crashing, or warping in and ending up dead. If you think gatecamps are bad now? Try jumping into a system, closing your eyes for 90 seconds, and only then can you start to move your ship.


Scramble reinforcements to the smaller side?
You mean the smaller side who have everybody at a computer online, in fleet and shooting the titain?
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#75 - 2013-07-30 20:01:49 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:


Secondly, I have never heard anyone who played the game before TiDi existed, complain about it. So if you think the game would be better without it, sorry, but you're a noob. "oh, but get better equipment"... it doesn't exist.



Correct, the EvE cluster is a distributed super computer, similar to Sandia's Red Storm (the first of its type if I remember right).

There is NOTHING better on the market, they are the servers that run Google's cloud databases, Amazon's market place, and the rigs that do Wall Streets automated training.
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#76 - 2013-07-30 20:03:14 UTC
Kitty Baugh wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Firstly, TiDi doesn't give any advantage to the larger side. If anything, it gives a huge advantage to the smaller side during a significant fleet action, allowing them time to scramble reinforcements before incurring the same losses they would during normal time against a larger fleet. Duh.

Secondly, I have never heard anyone who played the game before TiDi existed, complain about it. So if you think the game would be better without it, sorry, but you're a noob. "oh, but get better equipment"... it doesn't exist. Google itself could not handle real time client(there's the key term btw, real time) server interactions at this level. If you think it can be done (with your undoubtedly expert network knowledge) then prove CCP wrong and do it yourself. Otherwise, just shut up.

It's the preferable alternative to the game crashing, or warping in and ending up dead. If you think gatecamps are bad now? Try jumping into a system, closing your eyes for 90 seconds, and only then can you start to move your ship.


Scramble reinforcements to the smaller side?
You mean the smaller side who have everybody at a computer online, in fleet and shooting the titain?




Perhaps.

Fact is that when you are fighting in 10% that reinforcements are running ten times faster than you are which can be a blessing or a curse, its situational.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#77 - 2013-07-30 20:05:40 UTC
Quote:
Scramble reinforcements to the smaller side?
You mean the smaller side who have everybody at a computer online, in fleet and shooting the titain?


The answer to that is: Get more friends or it's tough luck. Friends are totally overpowered in EVE. I also find it hard to believe you don't have any unengaged blues.

And if not, then you picked a bad fight. Too bad, so sad.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Sirane Elrek
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#78 - 2013-07-30 20:06:32 UTC
Murk Paradox wrote:
Now, in regards to slowdown tidi lag **** all, if I press a button and don't see a result, it's slowdown/tidi/lag/fuckallbadshit.

If you press a button and don't see a result, that's lag.

Murk Paradox wrote:
If I blackscreen from server overload and cannot press a button with immediate result it's slowdown/tidi/lag/fuckallbadshit.

If you blackscreen from server overload, that's lag.

If you have TiDi and no lag, you press a button and your result is still immediate. Your guns turn on when you press the button. They turn off when you press the button. Your ship starts locking other ships when you press the button.
Locking takes longer, and so do warps, and aligning, and most other actions. But the commands are still processed immediately.

The whole point of TiDi is to slow down the simulation so that the server has enough (wall clock) time per simulation tick to evaluate everything that should happen in that tick. This is in contrast to lag, where the server does not have enough time to calculate everything that should be happening in that tick, and defers some commands to a later tick.
Trin Javidan
Caymen Labs
#79 - 2013-07-30 20:06:48 UTC
This is why giving giving unlimeted amounts of isk to the biggest coalitions has been a bad thing, in the end of the day eve is still a numbers and isk game, have both and you win.... rinse and repeat... ruining the politic's landscape and thus the fun for years to come.... CCP you had been warned.
Jill Xelitras
Xeltec services
#80 - 2013-07-30 20:08:31 UTC
Here just a reminder of what lag was like in 2010 with less than 200 in local.

Don't anger the forum gods.

ISD Buldath:

> I Saw, I came, I Frowned, I locked, I posted, and I left.