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Tidi is gamebreaking for the smaller side

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Leigh Akiga
Kuhri Innovations
#21 - 2013-07-30 18:21:48 UTC
Kitty Baugh wrote:
Leigh Akiga wrote:
Kitty Baugh wrote:
>Implying that I flubbed any gank
>Implying that the smaller side shouldnt win if they almost flawlessly execute something only to be shot down
>Implying that there isnt already massive amounts of lag in large fleet battles *COUGH*6VDT*COUGH*


pls.


Yes, you did flub a gank. If it was executed flawlessly you would have the undock securely bubbled so carriers undocking couldnt jump, you would have multiple drags set up off of the tackled titan and you would have a fast moving gang to tackle carriers/dreads/titans when they jump out and jump back to the tackled titan.

You flubbed it

Thread is not about flubbing gank, it is about tidi being advantageous to the bigger side.
leigh pls go.


Hello Cult of War member Kitty Baugh, this is an internet spaceship discussion forum- as such I am attempting to discuss why I dont think time dilation is game breaking, many cases and instances where people complain about time dilation would not have been possible to begin with had the mechanic not been in place, all parties would crash to blackscreen.

You have used one specific instance where time dilation did not allow a course of events to go your way, I can put forth many cases where tidi has and will continue to be advantageous to smaller forces. This means that your entire position is arbitrary and relative to your point of view.
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#22 - 2013-07-30 18:23:13 UTC
Murk Paradox wrote:


Or TiDi the entire game when it happens.


If this is implemented, remember you said this. Will be funny when you cry on the forums because your 1v1 in Scalding Pass got suddenly TiDi'd to hell because of a lovers quarrel in Fountain.

Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?
ElQuirko
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#23 - 2013-07-30 18:27:41 UTC
Kitty Baugh wrote:
>Implying that the smaller side shouldnt win if they almost flawlessly execute something only to be shot down


Tactics will only stretch so far. In warfare, there is simply no chance for a force hugely outnumbered to beat its opponent if morale is not an issue in the field. Last I checked, we're all deific immortal spaceship pilots in the ethos of this game and therefore we have nothing to fear from death. So you have little no chance of routing any force bigger than yours. EVE favours weight of numbers; much as I hate it, suck it up. TiDi is a good thing for EVE all told.

Dodixie > Hek
Kirtar Makanen
State War Academy
Caldari State
#24 - 2013-07-30 18:27:52 UTC
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:


Or TiDi the entire game when it happens.


If this is implemented, remember you said this. Will be funny when you cry on the forums because your 1v1 in Scalding Pass got suddenly TiDi'd to hell because of a lovers quarrel in Fountain.

If it's TiDi across the whole game, imagine the tears from people in Jita when things like 6VDT-H have constant tidi for over 5 hours.
tiberiusric
Comply Or Die
Pandemic Horde
#25 - 2013-07-30 18:30:39 UTC
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
I guess youd rather have massive amounts of lag and desyncs.






Are you mad?, what do you think TIDI is? its just lag with an official name. It doesnt help one bit, its just as infuriating as it was before.

All my views are my own - never be afraid to post with your main, unless you're going to post some dumb shit
Chandaris
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
#26 - 2013-07-30 18:33:14 UTC
You're bad.

tidi is awesome, and the only reason massive fleet fights are even possible. Some day the technology will get here where we don't need it. that day is not here yet.

As for OP's point, he is somewhat correct. Since time starts passing at differant rates outside and inside the combat zone, reinforcements for either side are able to arrive 'sooner' .. Really tho, this is the less of of several evils -- the other options being tidiing the entire game (no thanks) or turning off tidi which would just bring us back to the days of 'i was dead before grid loaded'
Leigh Akiga
Kuhri Innovations
#27 - 2013-07-30 18:36:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Leigh Akiga
Since you insist you are talking about generic tidi in general and not this particular instance- heres an example of how tidi benefits a smaller force.

Joe Schmoe gets tackled in system x, his brosefs are all docked in system y, Joe cries for help, all his bros login begin forming fleets and undocking creating tidi, they tidi themselves so bad it takes 10 minutes to complete a warp to a gate let alone the 4 jumps to where poor Joe is tackled.

Meanwhile, the small force happily destroys Joe tidi-free and with plenty of time to spare.
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#28 - 2013-07-30 18:37:16 UTC
Kitty Baugh wrote:
That's right, I said it.
I'll keep it pretty short:

Time dilation is gamebreaking for the smaller side, simply because it gives the bigger side 10x the time to ping and get people online.

Example:
-Fleet of 250 bumps titan out of POS
-Begins killing Titan, gets it to half armour before 100 of the enemy undock and warp to them
-System gets tidi'd to ****
-Before the fleet of 250 can finish killing the titan (Enemy fleet has no serious RR), Tidi goes to insane amounts
-Before the enemy titan or enemy fleet can even be further dented because of how slow it is, enemy sends a ping out and gets hundreds more people online
-More Tidi allows more people to get online
-The people who are much smaller, but would've gotten a monumental victory then lose because Tidi gave their opponents much more time to get online, get organized and get into the fight

Inb4hisecpropvpersjumponthisthread


So you missed the titan that died because we were tidi d to hell and you guys were running real time a single bridge away?

Quit crying.
tiberiusric
Comply Or Die
Pandemic Horde
#29 - 2013-07-30 18:40:29 UTC  |  Edited by: tiberiusric
Chandaris wrote:
You're bad.

tidi is awesome, and the only reason massive fleet fights are even possible. Some day the technology will get here where we don't need it. that day is not here yet.

As for OP's point, he is somewhat correct. Since time starts passing at differant rates outside and inside the combat zone, reinforcements for either side are able to arrive 'sooner' .. Really tho, this is the less of of several evils -- the other options being tidiing the entire game (no thanks) or turning off tidi which would just bring us back to the days of 'i was dead before grid loaded'


Youre bad for saying technology aint here yet lol. Try optimising code, trying optimising databases, try adding more hardware, try harder. Oh and we used to have massive fights before tidi came in just fyi

All my views are my own - never be afraid to post with your main, unless you're going to post some dumb shit
Victor Dathar
Lowlife.
Snuffed Out
#30 - 2013-07-30 18:40:40 UTC
Kitty Baugh wrote:

Thread is not about flubbing gank


Yes it is

^^^ lol that post is so bad you should get back 2 GBS m8 o7

@grr_goons : Wisdom, Insight, GBS Posts
Implying Implications
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#31 - 2013-07-30 18:43:36 UTC
EVE is gamebreaking for the smaller side.

hello
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#32 - 2013-07-30 18:43:55 UTC
tiberiusric wrote:
Are you mad?, what do you think TIDI is? its just lag with an official name. It doesnt help one bit
So you don't think that keeping the game running and working in a predictable and consistent matter counts as “helping” compared to the alternative of the game shutting down and/or no longer being predictable?

No. TiDi is not lag with an official name. It's controlled and graceful degradation of the world simulation, specifically to avoid the inconsistencies, unresponsiveness, and unpredictability of actual lag.

Quote:
Youre bad for saying technology aint here yet lol. Try optimising code, trying optimising databases, try adding more hardware, try harder
They did that. TiDi was first the solution to come out of it.
Moctobot
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#33 - 2013-07-30 18:46:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Moctobot
This thread is going places!

"Almost Flawlessly Executed." <--- There is the problem.
tiberiusric
Comply Or Die
Pandemic Horde
#34 - 2013-07-30 18:46:31 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Flidais Asagiri
Tippia wrote:
tiberiusric wrote:
Are you mad?, what do you think TIDI is? its just lag with an official name. It doesnt help one bit
So you don't think that keeping the game running and working in a predictable and consistent matter counts as “helping” compared to the alternative of the game shutting down and/or no longer being predictable?

No. TiDi is not lag with an official name. It's controlled and graceful degradation of the world simulation, specifically to avoid the inconsistencies, unresponsiveness, and unpredictability of actual lag.

Quote:
Youre bad for saying technology aint here yet lol. Try optimising code, trying optimising databases, try adding more hardware, try harder
They did that. TiDi was first the solution to come out of it.


Tippia listen, open those ears and listen. How do you think that waiting 20/30 mins for 'something to happen' is any better than how it was before? Its exactly the same as it was before!!

It's controlled and graceful degradation of the world simulation? Its still bloody lag.

and yes it is lag with an official name, thats my opinion

Edit: (ISD Flidais Asagiri) Opinions are ok, insults are not.

All my views are my own - never be afraid to post with your main, unless you're going to post some dumb shit
tiberiusric
Comply Or Die
Pandemic Horde
#35 - 2013-07-30 18:47:24 UTC  |  Edited by: tiberiusric
Tippia wrote:
They did that. TiDi was first the solution to come out of it.


How do you know? do you have the change log of everything that was optimised? Are you part of the development team? Do you know exactly what the issues where? Did they completely rewrite every bit of old code?

Well they didnt really did they... lets get that right.

All my views are my own - never be afraid to post with your main, unless you're going to post some dumb shit
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#36 - 2013-07-30 18:51:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
tiberiusric wrote:
How do you think that waiting 20/30 mins for 'something to happen' is any better than how it was before?
Because, unlike before, something actually happens, and you know it is happening (and that it is happening the same way it always does). That's better than it only looking like something might (or might not) be happening, having no idea whether the UI feedback you're getting is real, or wondering what's happening behind the black screen, or trying (and failing) to log in to be allowed to do even one of those three things.

Quote:
How do you know?
Because I followed the development through many a blog and test. So…

Quote:
Well they didnt really did they...
…sure they did.
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#37 - 2013-07-30 18:52:20 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Flidais Asagiri
tiberiusric wrote:
Tippia wrote:
tiberiusric wrote:
Are you mad?, what do you think TIDI is? its just lag with an official name. It doesnt help one bit
So you don't think that keeping the game running and working in a predictable and consistent matter counts as “helping” compared to the alternative of the game shutting down and/or no longer being predictable?

No. TiDi is not lag with an official name. It's controlled and graceful degradation of the world simulation, specifically to avoid the inconsistencies, unresponsiveness, and unpredictability of actual lag.

Quote:
Youre bad for saying technology aint here yet lol. Try optimising code, trying optimising databases, try adding more hardware, try harder
They did that. TiDi was first the solution to come out of it.


Tippia listen, open those ears and listen. How do you think that waiting 20/30 mins for 'something to happen' is any better than how it was before? Its exactly the same as it was before!!

It's controlled and graceful degradation of the world simulation? Its still bloody lag.

and yes it is lag with an official name, thats my opinion if you dont like that opinion you can shove it where the sun dont shine sunny.


Nice sperg, you are either being willingly blind or you never saw a 900 man battle before tidi.

It isn't close to the same thing.
Rodney Pooner
FOUNDRY HEAVY INDUSTRY
#38 - 2013-07-30 18:53:26 UTC
Tidi works both ways.

With the 6VDT titan kill GSF had massive tidi trying to undock from 4-ep, giving time for NC. and test to kill said titan.

Dont try to gank a Supercap in a Staging system where a simple rage ping puts 2000 people in system.
tiberiusric
Comply Or Die
Pandemic Horde
#39 - 2013-07-30 18:53:33 UTC
Tippia wrote:
tiberiusric wrote:
How do you know?
Because I followed the development through many a blog and test. So…

Quote:
Well they didnt really did they...
…sure they did.


Right.... OK.... that proves everything then....dear oh dear

All my views are my own - never be afraid to post with your main, unless you're going to post some dumb shit
Mellisa Jade
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#40 - 2013-07-30 18:54:52 UTC
Its not lag its slow motion graphics - saw this quoted on a T-shirt in the amazing game known as Second life

_'Time is to eternity, as the mind is to what surrounds us.' _