EVE General Discussion

Slowdown isn't lag. Ok....

I feel SOOO much better now. I mean, the fact the time duration between my client actions and server responses (or other players action) being so slow to the point of maddening, and everything running in slow farking motion, where a fleet fight that should take minutes is extended for 6-8 hours and a pee bucket is required at my desk....its all so clear now....

Why didn't I see it that way before?

Its not lag. Its SLOWDOWN!

AMAZING!

And we can call this slowdown something spiffy, like...I know! TiDi!

Yeah, thats the ticket...

Give 'slowdown' a fancy name so people will feel better, when they are emptying their said pee buckets at the end of a fleet fight...

"Its ok honey, I had to sh|t in a bucket at my desk because of the new TiDi slowdown feature!...don't be upset I couldn't take the girls to the park, it was TIDI baby!..'

That makes it SOOOO much better.

Christ.

You're wrong. It really is that simple.
TiDi is slowing down time so it is possible for the server to keep up with everyone, instead of the lucky few.

It might be lag. I don't know how beefy your PC is, I know my laptop struggled, mainly with graphics.
However, TiDi is not an attempt to disguise lag, and until you accept that, you'll continue to be wrong.

Please, try to understand just a tiny fraction of the facts. You quoted them so I hope your ability to read is undamaged.

Half of the systems I was active in were TiDi:d because they shared nodes with some staging system.

Everyone. Well, everyone except the party that would otherwise be able to jam-pack a system beforehand and cause any newcomers to blackscreen and crash… but that's a horrible meta-tactic so their not being able to benefit from it any more is a good thing too.

…and yet, tons of people had fun. It could have something to do with how “fun” is not some kind of objective and universal truth.

Suddenly everyones an expert. "omg computers can only be so big", what, you've never heard of horizontal scaling?

As someone who was in 6v, the problems apparently weren't just the server - my client crashed because it just couldn't render 4000 ships anymore (and yo, my PC is a brand new i7 4770k, it was only sitting at 10% cpu usage), and lots of other people had the same problem.

So how sharding systems is one way of scaling sure, it's kinda last years way of scaling. Fun fact about Eve, it all uses MSSQL on the backend - seriously, that was cool in 200x but these days we have better persistence methods - but eventual consistency is probably no good in a real time game.

The other issue however is the amount of data, frame rate has not much to do with it since that gets smoothed but the position packets probably need to update a lot, so each ship has a direction vector, call that 16 bytes (standard quad of float precision), projectiles also get those vectors, god only knows how many projectiles were going off in 6v, probably 8 per ship, so that's about 4000*(8*4+4*4) which is about 192KB of information, however many times it updates, probably at least 20 times a second so in 6v I guess around 3.7MBps of information a second needed to be processed by the node.

How can you shard that more without introducing more problems? Message queues and other scale out systems sacrifice too much latency.

I told before they did this crap, when they purged the Aoe titans.
Those titans controlled the numbers. tippia just talking bullsh*t he never was in tidi fight, but lol she was in a staging system. :P
First the main problem is the 12k alliances and the infinite standing numbers with anyone.
That just generating the numbers and create big coalitions with big numbers.
Need limit, before someone talking idiotic thing such as the Eve dont have limits, just look at first to maximum fleet numbers (256 members)
Smaller alliances with limited standings should be genetare smaller numbers.
If the game has no limit they wont fix never this lag and this type unenjoyable play, here a player cant do nothing 1 hours long and when he finaly targeted the broadcasted target cant shot there.

Even if every node was a discreet processor I doubt the northbridges on a HS22 blade can handle the bandwidth, there is a lot of things happening, all of which must be processed and broadcast.

I would love to see the I/O stats from a big fight, we know the proc on a 4000 series x. Server can't, blades have two more io stages.

I love your audacity in saying lag removes lag.

TiDi IS lag!

It's almost like you're implying stepping into the rain after getting out of the shower would keep you from getting wet.

where is that killmails when you got in tidi or that was when you killed a raven with 33 friend one time ? Megalol.
Or you talking about your jita kill ? :P
And you feel big pain in your *ss, thats why you talking about goons, when no one said a single word about them ?

Limit is limit, everyone know what is means.

If you don't like playing under Time Dilation, what alternative do you propose? The obvious one would be to have the server cap the number of people in system when it can't support real time anymore, but then you have this scenario:



As it was, the CFC was already able to take advantage of this somewhat, bringing over 2,000 people into the system before the defenders rallied. If the game had a cap of 2,000 players or so to prevent lag at all, there wouldn't have been a fight at all: CFC could have simply crowded TEST and its allies out of the system, waited for the station to come out of reinforcement, and then killed it. Is that better? Because that's the critical question: If Time Dilation running on their biggest, baddest server was not an acceptable solution for CCP to have deployed at the time of the 6VDT battle, what would have been?

If you're saying that Time Dilation is not as good a solution as a hypothetical fully threaded and highly sophisticated back end, well, duh. The two are not mutually exclusive, and the existence of Time Dilation does not prevent CCP from working on other solutions. Even when they roll out those solutions--as they did with Need for Speed, and CARBON I/O--Time Dilation will still be needed for the next 8,000- or 10,000- or 12,000-player throwdown. 4,070 people in 6VDT sounds huge, but there were many more people trying to get in. The simple fact is that whatever architecture CCP rolls out, EVE players will push to the limit.

for a while there, we were loading the roadster down with kids to the point where it scraped the asphalt, and even then we were leaving some of them behind. But paradox here wants our bus to preform like a roadster and he wants it NOW! Nevermind that the changes to the engine and the chassis is a huge undertaking.