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Is 3 "Magnetic Field Stabilizer II" worth it on a Blaster Talos?
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Angelique Duchemin
Team Evil
#1 - 2013-07-29 18:01:57 UTC
What kind of stacking penalty are we looking at here?


Personally I prefer the lows to be 2 x Tracking Enhancer II 2 x Magnetic Field Stabilizer II and then a damage control/nano

But I see more and more people using 3 Magnetic Field Stabilizer II instead. followed by 1 Tracking Enhancer II or both the damage control and the nano

The very sun of heaven seemed distorted when viewed through the polarising miasma welling out from this sea-soaked perversion, and twisted menace and suspense lurked leeringly in those crazily elusive angles of carven rock where a second glance shewed concavity after the first shewed convexity.

Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2013-07-29 18:05:19 UTC
Talos already has enough damage, what you need to be worried about is range since it's a fragile ship and range dictation is key to success in it.

Art of Explosions
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#3 - 2013-07-29 18:16:47 UTC
Angelique Duchemin wrote:
What kind of stacking penalty are we looking at here?


Same as always. Third mod operates at 57.06% effectiveness. Whether that's worth it on a specific fit is up to you. On a Talos, range/tracking is probably more important and will yield a greater increase in rDPS.
Whitehound
#4 - 2013-07-29 18:45:51 UTC
Angelique Duchemin wrote:
What kind of stacking penalty are we looking at here?


Personally I prefer the lows to be 2 x Tracking Enhancer II 2 x Magnetic Field Stabilizer II and then a damage control/nano

But I see more and more people using 3 Magnetic Field Stabilizer II instead. followed by 1 Tracking Enhancer II or both the damage control and the nano

I believe the numbers are 100% for the first module, 87% for the second and 57% for the third module.

TEs do not benefit blasters as much as they benefit auto cannons. After the nerf even more so. A third mag stab capitalizes on the high DPS of blasters. With Null L and only one TE can you shoot out to 30km and still do some good damage and the ship itself gets a bonus to tracking. A second TE here only gives 8% to tracking and 17% more falloff while the third mag stab still gives ~12% more DPS. And you do not really want to shoot out to 30km, but kill stuff at optimal range.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#5 - 2013-07-29 19:01:14 UTC
Crossover is between 23km and 25km when both are firing Null L against a generic cruiser depending on transversal. Under that, magstabs do more damage. Over that, TEs do more damage.

Against frigates the 2/2 setup pretty much always wins.

Yay for EFT graphs.
Angelique Duchemin
Team Evil
#6 - 2013-07-29 19:08:50 UTC
What about with Meta guns and T1 ammo?

The very sun of heaven seemed distorted when viewed through the polarising miasma welling out from this sea-soaked perversion, and twisted menace and suspense lurked leeringly in those crazily elusive angles of carven rock where a second glance shewed concavity after the first shewed convexity.

Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#7 - 2013-07-29 19:16:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Zhilia Mann
Angelique Duchemin wrote:
What about with Meta guns and T1 ammo?


Besides the obvious "don't do that"?

CNAM highly depends on transversal and if it's significant the extra TE always wins out -- but you're only talking ~400-450 DPS at 20km. CN Thorium crosses over between 15km and 17km depending on transversal (again with the generic cruiser target). CN Iron -- because why not -- crosses over between 22km and 22.5km.

_______________________
Edit for clarification:

At T2 disruptor range the 2/2 T2 is doing ~700 DPS, and the 3/1 T2 is pushing ~690. The 3/1 meta 4 is doing ~350 DPS and the 2/2 meta 4 is doing ~320.

At overheated T2 diruptor range the 3/1 T2 is doing ~575, the 2/2 T2 is at ~535, the 2/2 meta 4 is at ~245, and the 3/1 meta 4 is at ~210.

And that's why we don't fly a kiting Talos without T2 guns.
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
#8 - 2013-07-29 19:20:26 UTC
The third magstab also conflicts with your damagerig, so screw that third one.
Angelique Duchemin
Team Evil
#9 - 2013-07-29 19:24:36 UTC
Lloyd Roses wrote:
damagerig.


two extenders and an em-screen

The very sun of heaven seemed distorted when viewed through the polarising miasma welling out from this sea-soaked perversion, and twisted menace and suspense lurked leeringly in those crazily elusive angles of carven rock where a second glance shewed concavity after the first shewed convexity.

Whitehound
#10 - 2013-07-29 19:30:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Whitehound
Lloyd Roses wrote:
The third magstab also conflicts with your damagerig, so screw that third one.

Good thought, but bad execution.

You should be able to drop the second TE for a Metastasis Adjuster rig, which gives 15% more to tracking. TEs give at most only 10% anyway. If you do not need the extra falloff, but want to capitalise on the tracking as well, then this should be noticeably better.

Edit: Ah, nvm.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
#11 - 2013-07-29 20:24:23 UTC
Using a third magstab or a T2 damagerig is wayne. Both yield approx the same. A second TE is a blessing though, as it (mildly penalized) provides an essential boost for both usable stats on a not much lower scale compared to a rig.
I believe in CDFE+EM-rigs, just cause scorch/mjolnir/emp. Not a fan of DCU though.
Liam Inkuras
Furnace
Thermodynamics
#12 - 2013-07-29 20:27:55 UTC
You really need the second TE to project your damage out to a safe range where you can disengage if needed. A tracking rig isn't a very good idea instead if a 2nd TE on the Talos because the 5% more tracking from the rig is not worth the loss of the range bonuses from the TE. A typical blaster Talos should be fit like this:

Highs:
Neutron Blaster Cannon II (x8)

Mids:
Experimental 10mn Microwarpdrive I
Warp Disruptor II
Large FS-9 Regolith Shield Induction I (x2)

Lows:
Internal Force Field Array I
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II (x2)
Tracking Enhancer II (x2)

Rigs:
Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I (x2)

Drones:
Warrior II (x5)

This is the general outline for all blaster Talos fits. Many people drop the damage control for a nano, and there is no issue in doing so. Others will fit a T2 damage rig instead of the EM rig. It is really all up to personal preference. Regarding T1 guns, the Talos really needs Null L to be effective.

I wear my goggles at night.

Any spelling/grammatical errors come complimentary with my typing on a phone
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#13 - 2013-07-30 09:53:22 UTC
^ Talos 101 right there. I prefer the Nano version now as they nerfed the agility a bit.

.
Whitehound
#14 - 2013-07-30 10:28:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Whitehound
Liam Inkuras wrote:
You really need the second TE to project your damage out to a safe range where you can disengage if needed. A tracking rig isn't a very good idea instead if a 2nd TE on the Talos because the 5% more tracking from the rig is not worth the loss of the range bonuses from the TE. A typical blaster Talos should be fit like this:

Highs:
Neutron Blaster Cannon II (x8)

Mids:
Experimental 10mn Microwarpdrive I
Warp Disruptor II
Large FS-9 Regolith Shield Induction I (x2)

Lows:
Internal Force Field Array I
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II (x2)
Tracking Enhancer II (x2)

Rigs:
Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I (x2)

Drones:
Warrior II (x5)

This is the general outline for all blaster Talos fits. Many people drop the damage control for a nano, and there is no issue in doing so. Others will fit a T2 damage rig instead of the EM rig. It is really all up to personal preference. Regarding T1 guns, the Talos really needs Null L to be effective.

Allow me to clean this up for you. The following has marginally more eHP, a slightly bigger signature and is cheaper:

[Talos, PvP MWD + Blaster + Shield]

Damage Control II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II

Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I
Warp Disruptor II
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II

Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L

Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Processor Overclocking Unit I

Warrior II x5 (or Hornet EC-300)

Or try this. Same eHP, almost same tracking. It has got a shorter range, but it is 400 m/s faster (1900 m/s). Alternatively can you fit nanos, but these cost precious hull hitpoints (-2k eHP):

[Talos, PvP fast MWD Blaster + Shield]

Damage Control II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Overdrive Injector System II (or Nanofiber Internal Structure II)
Overdrive Injector System II (or Nanofiber Internal Structure II)

Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I
Warp Disruptor II
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II

Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L

Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Hybrid Metastasis Adjuster I

Warrior II x5 (or Hornet EC-300)

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
Muad 'dib
State War Academy
Caldari State
#15 - 2013-07-30 12:55:53 UTC
Da Boss

2x mag 2x TE 1x nano
10mn mwd, point, LSE
Neutron IIs
Rig: burst II, extenders
Drones: hobs

Cosmic signature detected. . . . http://i.imgur.com/Z7NfIS6.jpg I got 99 likes, and this post aint one.
God's Apples
Wilderness
IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII
#16 - 2013-07-30 15:29:48 UTC
Your rigs should be anti-em, CDFE, and t2 burst aerator if you're using a damage control. If you're using anti-em and 2x CDFE it would be viable to use triple magstab or triple TE.

"Hydra Reloaded are just jealous / butthurt on me / us because we can get tons of PVP action in empire while they aren't good enough to get that." - NightmareX
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#17 - 2013-07-30 17:37:17 UTC
God's Apples wrote:
Your rigs should be anti-em, CDFE, and t2 burst aerator if you're using a damage control. If you're using anti-em and 2x CDFE it would be viable to use triple magstab or triple TE.



<3 the now cheap t2 gun rigs


If only missile rigs were like that =<

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Angelique Duchemin
Team Evil
#18 - 2013-07-30 21:05:39 UTC
Liam Inkuras wrote:
You really need the second TE to project your damage out to a safe range where you can disengage if needed. A tracking rig isn't a very good idea instead if a 2nd TE on the Talos because the 5% more tracking from the rig is not worth the loss of the range bonuses from the TE. A typical blaster Talos should be fit like this:

Highs:
Neutron Blaster Cannon II (x8)

Mids:
Experimental 10mn Microwarpdrive I
Warp Disruptor II
Large FS-9 Regolith Shield Induction I (x2)

Lows:
Internal Force Field Array I
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II (x2)
Tracking Enhancer II (x2)

Rigs:
Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I (x2)

Drones:
Warrior II (x5)

This is the general outline for all blaster Talos fits. Many people drop the damage control for a nano, and there is no issue in doing so. Others will fit a T2 damage rig instead of the EM rig. It is really all up to personal preference. Regarding T1 guns, the Talos really needs Null L to be effective.


Looks fantastic. Though even a Meta Talos has got to be better than no Talos right?

As for the rigs. I would never undock without the EM screen. Yes it's taking the safe route but if I get pounced by a purifier, it's going to tear my ship open like paper and nest in my drone bay.

3/4 weapon systems have EM as an option and even the missile users "check" for the EM hole these days.

The very sun of heaven seemed distorted when viewed through the polarising miasma welling out from this sea-soaked perversion, and twisted menace and suspense lurked leeringly in those crazily elusive angles of carven rock where a second glance shewed concavity after the first shewed convexity.

Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
#19 - 2013-07-30 22:50:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Lloyd Roses
Muad 'dib wrote:
Da Boss

2x mag 2x TE 1x nano
10mn mwd, point, LSE
Neutron IIs
Rig: burst II, extenders
Drones: hobs


This fitting is my +1. Prefer EC-300s a little.

Also purifiers die on the second return shot. Wouldn't take those for a threat.