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Question about early model Rifters (CCP Falcon's ideas esp. welcome)

First post
Author
Constantly Outraged Sebiestor
Gutter Press
#1 - 2013-07-29 22:03:05 UTC
The Rifter was introduced during the Minmatar Rebellion, which is ~135 years ago.

I'd be interested in knowing what the early model Rifters were like, for any stories I might write.

What I was thinking, initially, was that the Rifter mark 1, instead of having the swivel turrets of modern day Rifters, instead, it had fixed-forward-firing autocannon, with maybe 1 powered turret with a gunner, as point-defence.

Smaller calibre guns than modern ones, maybe 75mm autocannon, rather than the 125mm that's the smallest modern autocannon?

What do you think ?
CCP Falcon
#2 - 2013-07-30 12:15:12 UTC

I'd hazard a guess that given how iconic, effective and successful the Rifter's hull is, that it's probably much the same in appearance as it was when it was first introduced.

Obviously under the skin it'll have had a hell of a lot of upgrades over the years to keep it on the forefront of Matari frigate tech, and of course even more so when the capsule was introduced. Upgrades such as more efficient reactor systems, additional capacitor banks, or the switch to semi-organic capacitor banks, upgraded boosters with a higher thrust output rating, chassis optimization and changes in construction materials to lighten the ship's substructure, stuff like that.

Any ship class that's survived so long will have had to have gone through a lot of revisions and transitions from old to new technology to still be in service. I wouldn't be surprised if the blueprints were also simply modified to accept the capsule's interfacing systems once use became as widespread as it is now. The Minmatar don't screw around in that respect and have a cunning ability to throw things together that just ...work.

In the same respect, given the size of the Rifter (its overall length and wingspan are comparative to that of a Boeing 747) you'd be looking at having at the very least a pilot and a gunner on board in a not so spacious environment if the vessel wasn't being flown by a capsuleer.

I'd disagree personally with the image above in terms of crew allocation though. A crew of 10 is a bit excessive for a non-capsuleer Rifter in my opinion, and in the same respect the Rifter is light, fast and simple enough to be flown solely by a capsuleer when he's plugged in.

I'm currently working on other stuff in terms of writing right now, so Project Clockwork is a little delayed, but once it kicks off, ships, their construction and their histories are something that I really want to tackle.

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CCP Falcon || EVE Universe Community Manager || @CCP_Falcon

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Stitcher
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#3 - 2013-07-30 14:54:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Stitcher
At the very least on a NPC (Non-Pod-Controlled) Rifter you'd need pilot, copilot, engineer, gunnery, and magazine.

Capsuleers remove pilot, copilot and gunner, and tend not to fly long campaigns far from a dock, and could presumably rely on drones to handle the magazine.

I'd suggest one crewmember, to handle any mechanical and maintenance problems that may arise, would be sufficient. That could either a lonely, harrowing and paranoid existence where you're effectively running around a ship that's flying itself and not deigning to acknowledge you. Or it could be a very intimate relationship, with both pilot and crewman communicating and working together very closely. I'm reminded of the "Brain & Brawn" partnership from Anne McCaffrey's novels.

That'd be quite the RP angle.

In the era of the DUST implant, maybe some pilots are looking into the option of outfitting their lone frigate crewman with one. There's no reason that technology has to be confined to mercenaries, after all. fighter pilots, HazMat teams, disaster response workers... there's a whole slew of high-risk, high-reward jobs which would benefit from cloning. Crewing an Empyrean's frigate, which are notorious for going pop pretty fast, might be among them.

I still kind of want a crew mechanic in the game... :D

AKA Hambone

Author of The Deathworlders

Constantly Outraged Sebiestor
Gutter Press
#4 - 2013-07-30 21:49:47 UTC
CCP Falcon wrote:

I'd hazard a guess that given how iconic, effective and successful the Rifter's hull is, that it's probably much the same in appearance as it was when it was first introduced.


What I was thinking, was along lines of how some WW2 fighters, such as the Spitfire, changed over time. And how some more modern aircraft, and also ships and some vehicles change over time too. Spitfire 1, guns were entirely within the wings. Later models, sprouted bumps and lumps to accommodate bigger guns, bigger radiators for the engine. Other modern aircraft, sprout lumps and things, as new systems are added. Ships in particular, have all sorts of odd things appearing over time.

So, a Mark One Rifter, might not have as many aerials, and pointy stick things, and wingy bits, compared to the modern one.
kraiklyn Asatru
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2013-07-30 22:36:44 UTC
Constantly Outraged Sebiestor wrote:
CCP Falcon wrote:

I'd hazard a guess that given how iconic, effective and successful the Rifter's hull is, that it's probably much the same in appearance as it was when it was first introduced.


What I was thinking, was along lines of how some WW2 fighters, such as the Spitfire, changed over time. And how some more modern aircraft, and also ships and some vehicles change over time too. Spitfire 1, guns were entirely within the wings. Later models, sprouted bumps and lumps to accommodate bigger guns, bigger radiators for the engine. Other modern aircraft, sprout lumps and things, as new systems are added. Ships in particular, have all sorts of odd things appearing over time.

So, a Mark One Rifter, might not have as many aerials, and pointy stick things, and wingy bits, compared to the modern one.


Considering its a Rifter, it might have had more wingy bits.. then they fell off..
Stitcher
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#6 - 2013-07-31 15:43:22 UTC
Wingy bits? They have a correct technical name, you know.

AKA Hambone

Author of The Deathworlders

Eija-Riitta Veitonen
State War Academy
Caldari State
#7 - 2013-07-31 15:50:35 UTC
Stitcher wrote:
Wingy bits? They have a correct technical name, you know.

That is the correct technical term!
Ollie Rundle
#8 - 2013-08-01 01:27:41 UTC
Trawling through the Gutter Press archives, I've found some sensational(!) evidence that the Rifter Mark 1 looked a lot like this. Clearly their technology has declined rather than improved over the intervening 135yrs, as the Mark 1 doesn't appear to need a pilot whereas later versions tend to require pilots while still operating satisfactorily without the need for engineering and structural components deemed vital to the ships of other Empires. Conundrum(!).

While in the archives I also located some imagery of Minmatar from the Mark 1's era. I think Shakor is the one in the middle.

P
Katrina Oniseki
Oniseki-Raata Internal Watch
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#9 - 2013-08-01 01:40:26 UTC
The Rifter hull has been increased in size recently ingame. Either that, or the turrets have been scaled down.

Katrina Oniseki

Eija-Riitta Veitonen
State War Academy
Caldari State
#10 - 2013-08-01 02:20:24 UTC
Katrina Oniseki wrote:
The Rifter hull has been increased in size recently ingame. Either that, or the turrets have been scaled down.

I think it's the turrets, as i'm seeing generally similar effects on other frigates as well.
Constantly Outraged Sebiestor
Gutter Press
#11 - 2013-08-03 10:12:52 UTC
well, I wrote a thing on the IGS, about the Mark One Rifter.

Feel free to have Republic event actors comment on things, lol.
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#12 - 2013-08-06 13:41:59 UTC
On crew for a non capsuleer Rifter, a lot would depend on how minor maintenance is done mid-flight.

The 747 comparison is interesting. The only reason a 747 does not need a flight engineer in the crew is because the aircraft can't fly 36-48 hours without refuelling. If it could, it would need a crew that could perform some important inspections mid-flight.

Presumably the Rifter often flies much longer than 2 days nonstop, meaning it likely needs two pilots and a flight engineer at a bare minimum for crew. Then add in a gunner or three and you have a crew of quite a few.

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