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Lag, TiDi, 6-VT and you...

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Job Valador
Professional Amateurs
#21 - 2013-07-29 21:43:38 UTC
I liked many of your pirate blogs, but this, this is just whining and I have already a crate of cheese ready too mail too you friend.

"The stone exhibited a profound lack of movement."
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#22 - 2013-07-29 21:49:22 UTC
I'll take 4000 man tidi fights over 1500 man black holes of waiting to get podded to station.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#23 - 2013-07-30 00:14:53 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
I'll take 4000 man tidi fights over 1500 man black holes of waiting to get podded to station.

....

But black holes are cool.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Alicia Aishai
Perkone
Caldari State
#24 - 2013-07-30 04:27:23 UTC
I hear the technical constraints, though I would suspect that code could be further improved or certain core mechanics could be rethought to optimize processing speed. Though clearly doing so is probably difficult and costly.

However, the op has a point. Technical constraints or not, what matters if the outcome and whether the outcome is attractive for the players. Personally, I have no interest in participating in large scale battles at 10% of normal speed.

Whether it's the best they can do, whether it's better than any other game, it doesn't matter. It's just not good enough to be attractive for me to want to participate.

tl;dr: if you cannot throw the ball far enough, the dog won't bother - even if this is the best you can do.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#25 - 2013-07-30 04:28:32 UTC
Fortunately we had like 4000+ players who were willing to go for it, for one reason or another. Or multiple.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Alicia Aishai
Perkone
Caldari State
#26 - 2013-07-30 04:29:59 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Fortunately we had like 4000+ players who were willing to go for it, for one reason or another. Or multiple.


And that's perfectly fine. If they are happy, good for them.
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#27 - 2013-07-30 04:40:31 UTC
Alicia Aishai wrote:


tl;dr: if you cannot throw the ball far enough, the dog won't bother - even if this is the best you can do.



You need to learn how to train your dogs then.
Aidan Brooder
Dynasphere Ltd.
#28 - 2013-07-30 05:06:54 UTC
I really wonder sometimes how some people got entitled to expect nothing less and only accept... divinity (HD)?

4000(!) players, plus their drones and every other crap they got... Like... Missilies... Bombs... etc...

Eh, really, guys... Please write petitions to Google to hand over the Google cluster. And then raw computing power isn't even touching the 'issue".

I think 4000 players doing battle even at TiDi 10% is pretty impressive.

But perhaps it is because I'm faced with unrealistic fantasies of the voodoo powers of IT myself every day. Pirate

Blog: http://aidanbrooder.wordpress.com My EVE Playlist on YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLSNuHY7z8n1q1BdLvW2verIfH8vvWtz_x
Ersahi Kir
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#29 - 2013-07-30 05:20:02 UTC
The solution isn't perfect, and it would be nice if it was better. I've done a few 10% Tidi fights and this is the first one where it wasn't just slow, but losing commands completely.

But the fact that we were able to have the fight at all was impressive.
Leigh Akiga
Kuhri Innovations
#30 - 2013-07-30 05:21:25 UTC
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:
How as paying EvE users did we come to accept UI razzle dazzle and gimmicks instead of a true remedy to lag? When did nullsec alliances give up the ghost, and like a victim of Stokholm syndrome buy into the notion that TiDi is some kind of answer to the rediculous fail of lag on the single-shard, single-sandbox?

I don't get it.

Can someone explain this please? It wasn't so long ago people were burning Jita because of micro-transactions, yet now with increasing server lag fail the response is 'meh'?


Stockholm. And that fight was only possible because of Tidi. Its getting better, not worse. Quit crying
Evi Polevhia
Phoenix Naval Operations
Phoenix Naval Systems
#31 - 2013-07-30 05:26:31 UTC
Hey guys, I just got back from the EVE 20th year anniversary celebration. We got to watch the Second UUA-F4 War streamed in full HD on Twitch(Well, aside from the stutter issues Twitch was having). It really sucked though when TiDi kicked in when local hit 38,000. You'd think they'd deliver on their age old promise of unending space exploration and combat. But honestly, how can we be expected to watch a fight under this 75% TiDi? I mean Jita was at 17,500 just the other day with no problems. What the hell kinda scam is CCP running? Why are the servers such crap? You'd think they'd improve them or something. But no, systems can't even hit 40 thousand without being on hypercharged nodes.
ACE McFACE
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#32 - 2013-07-30 05:46:35 UTC
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:
Dersen Lowery wrote:
No, you're absolutely right, the answer is "a modern code kernel and underlying infrastructure that can dynamically allocate resources," and there are absolutely no devils lurking in the implementation details. Nope. None whatsoever.

Sarcasm aside, CCP has had some very bright people working on this problem since... Incursion, I believe. If it was a simple problem, they would have solved it long since. It's not a simple problem.

TiDi makes lag equal and predictable for all participants, which is a net win.


So if a wife beater spreads his beatings equally amongst the family, instead of focussing on the wife alone, this is a net win; as opposed to him addressing the root issue and not giving beatings? Did I get that about right?

You sir, are an EvE TiDi Stokholm syndrome victim; seek help immediately....

Yeah, lag in a video game is about the same as someone beating their wife. Did I get that about right?

You sir, are an idiot, seek help immediately...


See what I did there?

Now, more than ever, we need a dislike button.
Alicia Aishai
Perkone
Caldari State
#33 - 2013-07-30 05:46:40 UTC
Evi Polevhia wrote:
Hey guys, I just got back from the EVE 20th year anniversary celebration. We got to watch the Second UUA-F4 War streamed in full HD on Twitch(Well, aside from the stutter issues Twitch was having). It really sucked though when TiDi kicked in when local hit 38,000. You'd think they'd deliver on their age old promise of unending space exploration and combat. But honestly, how can we be expected to watch a fight under this 75% TiDi? I mean Jita was at 17,500 just the other day with no problems. What the hell kinda scam is CCP running? Why are the servers such crap? You'd think they'd improve them or something. But no, systems can't even hit 40 thousand without being on hypercharged nodes.


Hail traveler from the future!
Do you mind sending across (private message please) the winning lottery numbers for next Saturday (8/3/13)?
Thanks!
Joan Greywind
The Lazy Crabs
#34 - 2013-07-30 06:10:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Joan Greywind
http://www.pcgamer.com/2013/06/15/eve-online/

Please read this.


I know that the EVE community is hard to please, but when you have CCP going around looking for the best military hardware in the world, you know you are just being a whiny little b ***** when you are expecting more.

Of course I would like to have no TIDI, but under the circumstances, I'll have to say thank you CCP for providing a place where 4000 people can shoot each other with their big spaceships at the same time.

TIDI isn't lag (as many have mentioned before), is its just the slowing of time, predictable and totally playable.

A milestone has been achieved that day, the biggest number of players playing together simultaneously, in any game ever.


Just an addition: that faye guy that you have linked in your first post op, if he thinks it is so easy to do, why doesn't he provide a solution to it instead of just criticizing it?

I remember some time ago a famous player actually got banned in wow, because he was crashing the whole server by teleporting a mere 500 people to the same place. and that is your almighty blizzard, not the node mind you the whole server crashes.
Kryttos
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#35 - 2013-07-30 06:10:56 UTC
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:
Dersen Lowery wrote:
No, you're absolutely right, the answer is "a modern code kernel and underlying infrastructure that can dynamically allocate resources," and there are absolutely no devils lurking in the implementation details. Nope. None whatsoever.

Sarcasm aside, CCP has had some very bright people working on this problem since... Incursion, I believe. If it was a simple problem, they would have solved it long since. It's not a simple problem.

TiDi makes lag equal and predictable for all participants, which is a net win.


So if a wife beater spreads his beatings equally amongst the family, instead of focussing on the wife alone, this is a net win; as opposed to him addressing the root issue and not giving beatings? Did I get that about right?

You sir, are an EvE TiDi Stokholm syndrome victim; seek help immediately....


What a terrible comparison.
Inxentas Ultramar
Ultramar Independent Contracting
#36 - 2013-07-30 06:24:48 UTC
All of this is done by choice, you don't have to sit in 10% TiDi if you don't want to. 4000 people seemed to want to.
Liafcipe9000
Critically Preposterous
#37 - 2013-07-30 06:38:23 UTC
I was NOT there

so don't you tell me "Lag, TiDi and you"
Lybra
Suddenly Spaceless
Insidious.
#38 - 2013-07-30 06:51:08 UTC
Since this is allegedly the first time 4000 players gathered somewhere in a bunch and started blasting at each other (in an online sandbox MMO) it's UNAVOIDABLE that issues will arise. Not your everyday Jita issues. REAL issues.

If the real issue in this particular scenario is that those people had to endure time passing at 10% of normal (instead of say, total server collapse), then it's only logical to assume further such scenarios will gradually help CCP with resolving a lot of these issues and making 4000 players in a system more manageable in time.

In essence: Until you get to a point where 10000 players want to squeeze in a suystem and blow **** up, you will NEVER know what kind of issues will arise and how "enjoyable" the experience will be. If TiDi helps peeps get to that point then TiDi is a VERY VERY essential feature in this game and I for one would prefer it over some of the things I've come across playing for as long as I have.

Bitching and moaning will not really help reach 5k, or 10k in a fleet battle. TiDi does. I'm gonna go ahead and prefer TiDi to your bitching and moaning.
flakeys
Doomheim
#39 - 2013-07-30 06:54:07 UTC
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:
How as paying EvE users did we come to accept UI razzle dazzle and gimmicks instead of a true remedy to lag? When did nullsec alliances give up the ghost, and like a victim of Stokholm syndrome buy into the notion that TiDi is some kind of answer to the rediculous fail of lag on the single-shard, single-sandbox?

I don't get it.

Can someone explain this please? It wasn't so long ago people were burning Jita because of micro-transactions, yet now with increasing server lag fail the response is 'meh'?



Let me say this is the nicest way , you are an absolute idiot.


It's not the software that's the problem , it's the users .

We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
Aragoni
Black Talon Command
#40 - 2013-07-30 08:47:12 UTC
"CCP FIX LAG!" There will never be a fix on lag as the players will always push the servers to the limits with more players to get more epic pew pew. CCP are working as hard as they can on the issue, and they should get cred for it.