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T2 Logi Frigs
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Aramis Defranzac
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#1 - 2013-07-29 18:56:05 UTC
Not sure if this is anywhere and died a horrible death but...

With so many frig fleets running around, and the genocide of tiericide, the direction of roles and logistics has left an open hole.

The addition of of T2 logi frigs (SFs, Support Frigates)in combination with AFs, make for a great progression into their larger cousins in fleet concepts and training!!!

Nuff said Big smile

- Aramis

Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#2 - 2013-07-29 18:59:24 UTC
But...why would you want to fly one of those when you could fly a T1 logi cruiser instead and get lots more reps and ehp and not cost nearly as much as a t2 frigate would?

Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?
Aramis Defranzac
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#3 - 2013-07-29 19:08:45 UTC
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
But...why would you want to fly one of those when you could fly a T1 logi cruiser instead and get lots more reps and ehp and not cost nearly as much as a t2 frigate would?


1. Faster - Align time, speed

2. Smaller Sig Radius

3. T2 resists

- Aramis
Ersahi Kir
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#4 - 2013-07-29 19:29:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Ersahi Kir
It's been mentioned in here before, I think it comes up every 2 weeks or so.

My take on the idea:

Make them with a good tech II resist profile and covert ops, and give them the same slot layout as tech I logi frigates + 1 high. Use the same same basic bonuses as the tech 1 logi frigates, except perhaps a bit more range. It violates the "specialist" nature of Tech II ships, but it allows it to either be a covert logistics ship fitting 3 transporters and a cloak, or it can be a 4x remote rep frigate with assault frigate gangs.

Make them look awesome and enjoy the frigate gang killmails that pour in.
Aramis Defranzac
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#5 - 2013-07-29 19:38:26 UTC
Ersahi Kir wrote:
It's been mentioned in here before, I think it comes up every 2 weeks or so.

My take on the idea:

Make them with a good tech II resist profile and covert ops, and give them the same slot layout as tech I logi frigates + 1 high. Use the same same basic bonuses as the tech 1 logi frigates, except perhaps a bit more range. It violates the "specialist" nature of Tech II ships, but it allows it to either be a covert logistics ship fitting 3 transporters and a cloak, or it can be a 4x remote rep frigate with assault frigate gangs.

Make them look awesome and enjoy the frigate gang killmails that pour in.



I think its great other than the covert ops Big smile

I think the specialization rule is critical to keeping everything as stable as possible, x4 reps ....

Logi Swarm!!!!
kraiklyn Asatru
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#6 - 2013-07-29 19:42:31 UTC
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
But...why would you want to fly one of those when you could fly a T1 logi cruiser instead and get lots more reps and ehp and not cost nearly as much as a t2 frigate would?



Because it isn't a frigate and can't keep up with frigates.
Ersahi Kir
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2013-07-29 19:58:22 UTC
Aramis Defranzac wrote:
Ersahi Kir wrote:
It's been mentioned in here before, I think it comes up every 2 weeks or so.

My take on the idea:

Make them with a good tech II resist profile and covert ops, and give them the same slot layout as tech I logi frigates + 1 high. Use the same same basic bonuses as the tech 1 logi frigates, except perhaps a bit more range. It violates the "specialist" nature of Tech II ships, but it allows it to either be a covert logistics ship fitting 3 transporters and a cloak, or it can be a 4x remote rep frigate with assault frigate gangs.

Make them look awesome and enjoy the frigate gang killmails that pour in.



I think its great other than the covert ops Big smile

I think the specialization rule is critical to keeping everything as stable as possible, x4 reps ....

Logi Swarm!!!!


I guess I should have said that I was looking at covert ops because currently there's no covert ops logi ship, and I think that really hurts the use of anything that isn't a stealth bomber. If there was some kind of logi support I think the other non-stealth bomber covert ops ships would see more use.
Drake Doe
88Th Tax Haven
#8 - 2013-07-29 20:01:09 UTC
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2978513#post2978513

"The homogenization of EVE began when Gallente and Caldari started sharing a weapon system."---Vermaak Doe-- "Ohh squabbles ohh I love my dust trolls like watching an episode of Maury with less " Is he my Dad " but more of " My Neighbor took a dump on my lawn " good episode! pops more corn" ---Evernub--
Aramis Defranzac
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#9 - 2013-07-29 20:20:13 UTC
Can we get a Moderator to combine these Posts into one thread???
Aramis Defranzac
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#10 - 2013-07-30 18:17:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Aramis Defranzac
For specialization purposes to further the Tech 2 role maybe adding something like....

Role Bonus: 50% bonus to remote shield repairers and remote armor repairers when repairing frigates Twisted

Something Frigate specific so that Logi frigs can't replace their cruiser counter parts.

- Aramis
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#11 - 2013-07-30 18:34:52 UTC
Ersahi Kir wrote:
Aramis Defranzac wrote:
Ersahi Kir wrote:
It's been mentioned in here before, I think it comes up every 2 weeks or so.

My take on the idea:

Make them with a good tech II resist profile and covert ops, and give them the same slot layout as tech I logi frigates + 1 high. Use the same same basic bonuses as the tech 1 logi frigates, except perhaps a bit more range. It violates the "specialist" nature of Tech II ships, but it allows it to either be a covert logistics ship fitting 3 transporters and a cloak, or it can be a 4x remote rep frigate with assault frigate gangs.

Make them look awesome and enjoy the frigate gang killmails that pour in.



I think its great other than the covert ops Big smile

I think the specialization rule is critical to keeping everything as stable as possible, x4 reps ....

Logi Swarm!!!!


I guess I should have said that I was looking at covert ops because currently there's no covert ops logi ship, and I think that really hurts the use of anything that isn't a stealth bomber. If there was some kind of logi support I think the other non-stealth bomber covert ops ships would see more use.


T3's can serve as very effective and potent covert logi ships. There biggest issue, however, is they lack range. Their reps go 6-9 km's, and that's a bit too short (when you cyno in, you could easily be 10 km's from your fleet mate). A long time ago I proposed a slight tweak to their subsystems to give the t3 logistics ships improved range to remote reps, ideally providing something akin to a 15-25 km range on reps. That way they are limited enough as to not overwhelm the logistics cruiser role, but effective enough to bring through a covert cyno.

As for the t2 logi frigate... I really don't think this is needed, as the t1 version does an excellent job fulfilling this role already! I honestly don't see adding more RR to this game as a good thing!!!
Aramis Defranzac
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#12 - 2013-07-30 18:49:23 UTC
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
Ersahi Kir wrote:
Aramis Defranzac wrote:
Ersahi Kir wrote:
It's been mentioned in here before, I think it comes up every 2 weeks or so.

My take on the idea:

Make them with a good tech II resist profile and covert ops, and give them the same slot layout as tech I logi frigates + 1 high. Use the same same basic bonuses as the tech 1 logi frigates, except perhaps a bit more range. It violates the "specialist" nature of Tech II ships, but it allows it to either be a covert logistics ship fitting 3 transporters and a cloak, or it can be a 4x remote rep frigate with assault frigate gangs.

Make them look awesome and enjoy the frigate gang killmails that pour in.



I think its great other than the covert ops Big smile

I think the specialization rule is critical to keeping everything as stable as possible, x4 reps ....

Logi Swarm!!!!


I guess I should have said that I was looking at covert ops because currently there's no covert ops logi ship, and I think that really hurts the use of anything that isn't a stealth bomber. If there was some kind of logi support I think the other non-stealth bomber covert ops ships would see more use.


T3's can serve as very effective and potent covert logi ships. There biggest issue, however, is they lack range. Their reps go 6-9 km's, and that's a bit too short (when you cyno in, you could easily be 10 km's from your fleet mate). A long time ago I proposed a slight tweak to their subsystems to give the t3 logistics ships improved range to remote reps, ideally providing something akin to a 15-25 km range on reps. That way they are limited enough as to not overwhelm the logistics cruiser role, but effective enough to bring through a covert cyno.

As for the t2 logi frigate... I really don't think this is needed, as the t1 version does an excellent job fulfilling this role already! I honestly don't see adding more RR to this game as a good thing!!!


Again this is about progression and fleet types etc...

That being said, you can make the same argument for assault frigates because T1 and Navy ships do just fine, but they exist and they fulfill a specific role.

T1 ships don't have the staying power that T2 give you with resists and specified roles, so T2 Logi Frigs have a real place within the eve universe.

- Aramis
Rob Otokhan
Asteroid Farm Unlimited
Goonswarm Federation
#13 - 2013-07-31 11:14:20 UTC
Ersahi Kir wrote:
Aramis Defranzac wrote:
Ersahi Kir wrote:
It's been mentioned in here before, I think it comes up every 2 weeks or so.

My take on the idea:

Make them with a good tech II resist profile and covert ops, and give them the same slot layout as tech I logi frigates + 1 high. Use the same same basic bonuses as the tech 1 logi frigates, except perhaps a bit more range. It violates the "specialist" nature of Tech II ships, but it allows it to either be a covert logistics ship fitting 3 transporters and a cloak, or it can be a 4x remote rep frigate with assault frigate gangs.

Make them look awesome and enjoy the frigate gang killmails that pour in.



I think its great other than the covert ops Big smile

I think the specialization rule is critical to keeping everything as stable as possible, x4 reps ....

Logi Swarm!!!!


I guess I should have said that I was looking at covert ops because currently there's no covert ops logi ship, and I think that really hurts the use of anything that isn't a stealth bomber. If there was some kind of logi support I think the other non-stealth bomber covert ops ships would see more use.


i have had mixed succes fielding cov ops logi T3 hulls. its a bit tough but it is doable and can be a saving grace at times.
Vesan Terakol
Trollgrin Sadface
Dark Taboo
#14 - 2013-07-31 12:05:18 UTC
T2 logi frigs could work under the context of covops.

Give them:

- No recalibration time and reactivation down to 10 secs.
- Bonus to repair amount but no bonuses to capacitor use, so they are viable for burst repping (like a remote ASB/ARR) but can't sustain their high repair rates.
- Bonus range should be minimal, allowing reps to land from no more than 25 km, allowing counterplay.
- Decreased amount of received capacitor from energy transfers (so the don't become an unkillable remote repair drone, taht gets feeded by its big brother battleship).
Randy Wray
Warcrows
THE OLD SCHOOL
#15 - 2013-07-31 12:24:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Randy Wray
I think the biggest problem with the tech 1 logi frigs for fleets is the fact that they have a big signature(especially in an mwd fleet) and a very small ability to fit a tank. For t2 logi frigs I agree with some other people in the thread that they should be able to assist AFs efficiently. If you would bring bantams along for a harpy fleet the bantams would just get blapped right away. If there were t2 logi frigs to be made I think they should have the 50% mwd sig bloom reduction role bonus to make 'em synergize with AFs.

LML hawk/t2 bantam gang would be so awesome yaknow ;D

Maybe have different variants? Amarr and caldari are more combat oriented while minmatar and gallente are covops? Or just have both of the variants for every race?

Solo Pvper in all areas of space including wormhole space. Check out my youtube channel @ http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCd6M3xV43Af-3E1ds0tTyew/feed for mostly small scale pvp in lowsec/nullsec

twitch.tv/randywray
Aramis Defranzac
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#16 - 2013-07-31 17:36:57 UTC
I'd definitely prefer as a logi pilot to broadcast for reps instead of spamming warp to the sun in my pod cause I just got insta popped!!

And here is a great name for a T2 Logi Frig:

Serket: Goddess of healing stings and bites

Makes sense Twisted

- Aramis
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#17 - 2013-07-31 17:43:38 UTC
Aramis Defranzac wrote:
I'd definitely prefer as a logi pilot to broadcast for reps instead of spamming warp to the sun in my pod cause I just got insta popped!!

And here is a great name for a T2 Logi Frig:

Serket: Goddess of healing stings and bites

Makes sense Twisted

- Aramis


That is a good name:

I suppose a t2 logi frigate would be alright as long as it wasn't a "straight improvement" over the t1. Give it better resists, and lower sig, so it is much harder to kill. Give it about the same repping power. But make it easy to jam, or easy to damp into ineffectiveness, or easy to neut out.
Aramis Defranzac
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#18 - 2013-07-31 17:46:34 UTC
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
Aramis Defranzac wrote:
I'd definitely prefer as a logi pilot to broadcast for reps instead of spamming warp to the sun in my pod cause I just got insta popped!!

And here is a great name for a T2 Logi Frig:

Serket: Goddess of healing stings and bites

Makes sense Twisted

- Aramis


That is a good name:

I suppose a t2 logi frigate would be alright as long as it wasn't a "straight improvement" over the t1. Give it better resists, and lower sig, so it is much harder to kill. Give it about the same repping power. But make it easy to jam, or easy to damp into ineffectiveness, or easy to neut out.


Agreed,

Make it great but counterable, keep the balance, and please no miticlorians Blink

Aramis
Ersahi Kir
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#19 - 2013-07-31 18:25:36 UTC
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
But make it easy to jam, or easy to damp into ineffectiveness, or easy to neut out.


I think these are already in place because it's a frigate. But lets not lose focus on the most important aspect here: they need to look awesome. Especially the burst.
Shereza
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2013-07-31 18:46:13 UTC
kraiklyn Asatru wrote:
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
But...why would you want to fly one of those when you could fly a T1 logi cruiser instead and get lots more reps and ehp and not cost nearly as much as a t2 frigate would?



Because it isn't a frigate and can't keep up with frigates.


As a part time devil's advocate I'd like to point out that purely from a movement perspective cruisers fitted for speed can keep up with frigates not so fitted. There are sacrifices of course, but when comparing a speed-fit osprey to a bantam you can achieve a faster align time, 90%-98% of the velocity, and still manage 3-4x the base EHP before non-speed mods/rigs are factored in.
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