Ships & Modules

Nonsense. If you feel like pointing out details then please do, but when you start arguing that it is not true then you are only trolling. Or tell how one can get a 100% sig reduction... You cannot.

One can for example say that "more speed is better". That it does not make a difference when one already is under a ship's guns does not really matter for the truthfulness of the statement. The statement is true enough for most people, some will point out details, and only the trolls object.

When I then say that a 10% speed increase has the same effect as a 10% signature reduction and you do the math will you see that it is right. Both result in lower damage and the amount is almost identical.

If you then point out that a 30% signature decrease is not the exact same thing as a 30% speed increase do you also have to say that a 30% speed increase is easier to achieve than a 30% signature reduction. Your example of a 100% signature reduction is however unrealistic.

The results are almost identical because ur dealing with low value of 10%. If u want to test ur math take it to extreme and see if ur assumptions hold up. Whether u can get 100% sig reduction doesnt matter it helps show whats happening.

At 50% speed/sig u start to see the damage clearly divurge. At 100% sig reductio u are completely immune to damage at 100% speed u are not.

Thanks guys for a ll your replies so far.
But probably as always (in Eve)..matters are not that simple. I will try the mentioned tools EFT and PYFA.
Looking forward to see further contributions to this topic

Regarding the orbit should you look at this. It shows how tracking effects DPS the closer one orbits a target.

While it is true that optimal and falloff are irrelevant to tracking is it also not the tracking that kills your ship, but it is the damage. It is only good to know where one should be and where one should not be when choosing an orbit, and this is what OP was asking next to speed and signature. The graphs are very useful.

OP take a look at this, http://dl.eve-files.com/media/0910/eve-tracking101.swf the chart wizard at the end may be what your looking for.

having a tough time sorting out whos saying what exactly so thought i would lump it all together and just make a blanket statement.

EFT dps graph is an incredible tool for seeing how signature, speed, direction of targets travel(ie speed + direction = vector) compare to your guns sig, tracking, ammo selectionn, your ships movement, your ships modules(webs, target painters) ALL combine to produce DPS at different distances

The link provided to a DPS graph is very difficult to read because its 3D which complicates understanding quite a bit. If I didnt have lots(by my standards) practice looking at DPS graphs i would be very confused by what its showing

I guarantee you this guys. If you use the EFT graphs for DPS you will find out that MANY times your highest DPS is actually in your FALL OFF not on the edge of your optimal. What you lose in DPS due to fall off you frequently make up with tracking which puts max DPS in early fall off range

You will be shocked to see what an AB tengu moving around 1500m/s with a small sig size does to DPS. 800DPS quickly turns into 40DPS maximum

I have explained complex formulas in simple words. The trolls had to get it wrong while they knew what I was talking about and used it to derail the thread. I am assuming they feel insecure to explain it on their own, but can only participate in the discussion in this way. So do not worry about it.

Both EFT and PYFA have graph plotters, but they are making it too complicated for someone who is new to the topic. It can become too many things to do at once and then lead to bad fittings that look good against one particular target, but fail against others.

Klymer above has posted a nice link, which explains the fundamentals in several steps graphically and interactively without the need to fit ships and keeps it simple.

Unless one uses an Halo implant set, X-Instinct boosters or an Evasive Maneuvres gang link is there actually no way one can lower the signature of a ship with a module. Signature tanking is mostly about avoiding unnecessary increases in signature. Anyone who jumps straight to implants and gang links is likely bound to ignore this and then wonders why those expensive implants did not help.

All shield extenders increase a ship's signature and also all shield rigs do. Therefore does one need to avoid buffer shield tanks for signature tanking and uses active tanks instead without any shield rigs. One can use armor tanks, too, but these have their own drawbacks. Plates lower speed and increase inertia, and some (but not all) armor rigs lower speed, too, and here one has to use only active armor tanks as well.

One can rely on speed and signature for tanking alone, but wrecking hits by turrets cannot be tanked this way, because these have a fixed 1%-chance to occur. For longer engagements and when possible should one fit a small, active tank.

The Inertia stabilizer is another module that increases signature, but in exchange for a lower inertia. When a lower inertia is needed then it is better to use nanos (Nanofibre Internal Structure), because these lower the inertia and increase speed and for only a reduction in hull hit points. These are most commonly used. Only for ships with strong hulls like Gallente ships - especially when combined with a DCU - can the drawback of nanos become a problem. Increasing speed with Overdrive Injectors then may be the better choice (but have a loss in cargo space as drawback...).

Afterburners are usually best for speed tanking. MWDs are faster, but massively increase a ship's signature unless when fitted on ships with bonuses to MWD signature reduction such as T2 Interceptors and T2 Assault frigates. While an AB usually increases the speed by about 2.5x times and adds directly to the effectiveness of speed&signature tanking do MWDs at best only add ~25% overall to the effectiveness, but will make the worst cases 6x times (+500%) more worse. When fitted on Interceptors do MWDs improve speed&signature tanking overall by about 2.7x - slightly better than ABs - while making the worst cases only 2.25x times more worse (the gain exceeds the worst cases). When fitted on Assault Frigates, which have a lesser bonus to MWD signature reduction than Interceptors, improve MWDs speed&signature tanking overall by about 1.8x times while making the worst cases 3.5x times more worse.

An alternative to this is to fit oversized afterburners for MWDs. These add however a very high inertia to a ship and make precise piloting very difficult, but they provide high speeds close to the speed of (normal-sized) MWDs without increasing the signature of a ship.

What helps a lot in speed tanking are dual prop fittings. Webs are the most dangerous counter to speed tanking. Counter webbing a target helps with tackling, but does not solve the problem of one's own speed loss. While MWDs get turned off by scrams will ABs still work and even under a web provide their speed bonus. The best webs only provide at most a 60% speed reduction (unless when fitted to ships with a bonus to webbing strength) and thereby only counter the speed increases by ABs one to one. Webs, when overheated, then only provide a range bonus, while ABs give even more speed during overheating and are also available with higher speed bonuses (i.e. faction and deadspace ABs). So it is possible to fit a dual prop fitting for more versatility while it is also possible to counter a single web without using a web on one's own ship and with a chance to break out of a tackle.

Thanks for pointing out the boosters and the Ragnarok. I have mentioned the boosters now, too, but my point actually was that it cannot be done through modules, which I have now added.
*Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal

Well this has always been my favorite resource on the subject. For anyone interested in the math behind speed tanking, since we brought it up.

http://www.evealtruist.com/2011/12/video-tracking-and-spiralling.html