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RNI Torp Fitting

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Zhu Dark
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#1 - 2013-07-28 03:35:15 UTC
I've got a Raven Navy Issue I've been thinking about blowing the dust off of. With the bonuses of velocity and explosion radius it just seems like it's begging to have torps fit (even if with the changes to torps and cruise). However, I can't seem to fit 8 tech 2, 3 missile rigs, and the basically required cap booster to it. I either blow the CPU or PG threshold. It's only got 5 lows which with 4 taken by BCUs that leaves one low slot to try to deal with the fitting problem. Anyone have any advice for getting 8 torps, 3 missile rigs and a cap booster wrangled?
Klymer
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#2 - 2013-07-28 04:20:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Klymer
edit: ok after a bit more evehq I came up with this using my Raven pilot, needs no implants. A little bit shiny but it fits and rigs can be swapped for whatever you like. I used them to see what explosion radius would look like, 252m w/Rage and 146m w/T1 if your interested, but range rigs would be more beneficial for actual gameplay.


[Raven Navy Issue, T2 Torp]

Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Co-Processor II

Gist X-Type Large Shield Booster
Kinetic Deflection Field II
Kinetic Deflection Field II
Thermic Dissipation Field II
Target Painter II
Medium Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
100MN Afterburner II

Torpedo Launcher II, Scourge Rage Torpedo
Torpedo Launcher II, Scourge Rage Torpedo
Torpedo Launcher II, Scourge Rage Torpedo
Torpedo Launcher II, Scourge Rage Torpedo
Torpedo Launcher II, Scourge Rage Torpedo
Torpedo Launcher II, Scourge Rage Torpedo
Torpedo Launcher II, Scourge Rage Torpedo
Torpedo Launcher II, Scourge Rage Torpedo

Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I

Hobgoblin II x5
Hammerhead II x5
Hornet EC-300 x5
Shereza
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2013-07-28 04:46:35 UTC
[Raven Navy Issue, Torpedo - Sit & Spin]
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Co-Processor I

Gist C-Type X-Large Shield Booster
Gist A-Type EM Ward Field
Gist A-Type Thermic Dissipation Field
Medium Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Cap Booster 800
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron

Torpedo Launcher II, Mjolnir Torpedo
Torpedo Launcher II, Mjolnir Torpedo
Torpedo Launcher II, Mjolnir Torpedo
Torpedo Launcher II, Mjolnir Torpedo
Torpedo Launcher II, Mjolnir Torpedo
Torpedo Launcher II, Mjolnir Torpedo
Torpedo Launcher II, Mjolnir Torpedo
Torpedo Launcher II, Mjolnir Torpedo

Large Rocket Fuel Cache Partition II
Large Hydraulic Bay Thrusters II
Large Warhead Flare Catalyst I

[Raven Navy Issue, Torpedo - Move & Groove]
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Shadow Serpentis Co-Processor

Core X-Type 100MN Microwarpdrive
Gist C-Type X-Large Shield Booster
Gist A-Type EM Ward Field
Gist A-Type Thermic Dissipation Field
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron

Torpedo Launcher II, Mjolnir Torpedo
Torpedo Launcher II, Mjolnir Torpedo
Torpedo Launcher II, Mjolnir Torpedo
Torpedo Launcher II, Mjolnir Torpedo
Torpedo Launcher II, Mjolnir Torpedo
Torpedo Launcher II, Mjolnir Torpedo
Torpedo Launcher II, Mjolnir Torpedo
Torpedo Launcher II, Mjolnir Torpedo

Large Warhead Flare Catalyst I
Large Warhead Flare Catalyst I
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II

I probably screwed up the rigs on the second one, but they're more for proof of concept on both fits in order to get the CPU costs right. Also, yeah, fitting and rigging skills at 5 is pretty close to a must, especially on the last build which has something like 2.5tf free with that particular CPU.
Goldensaver
Maraque Enterprises
Just let it happen
#4 - 2013-07-28 05:35:03 UTC
I would like to note that DG hardeners use substantially less CPU, have the same resist bonuses and are cheaper than the CN variants, while being not nearly as expensive as CN BCUs. Upgrading to those could have a significant effect on your fit working or not.

If you've got the money, CN BCUs are also an option, but remember that the more bling you put on, the more of a gank target you become. For just about any fit, a co-processor in the 5th low is mandatory. All that aside, not much can be said.

Honestly I'd really suggest cruise missiles as they do decently close to torp damage while applying better and having more range. They're pretty fantastic right now. But if you really do feel you want to torp fit it's up to you, go get 'em, have at it. It's your fit and I can't tell you what to do.
Bertrand Butler
Cras es Noster
#5 - 2013-07-28 09:36:38 UTC
Here is a setup I have made and tested for the job at hand, holds true against any L4 mission. It might give you some ideas...C:

[Raven Navy Issue, Odyssey L4 PvE Raven Navy Issue]
Co-Processor II
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II

Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Dread Guristas Large Shield Booster
Shadow Serpentis 100MN Microwarpdrive
Pith C-Type Kinetic Deflection Field
Pith C-Type Thermic Dissipation Field
Shield Boost Amplifier II
Republic Fleet Target Painter

Torpedo Launcher II
Torpedo Launcher II
Torpedo Launcher II
Torpedo Launcher II
Torpedo Launcher II
Torpedo Launcher II
Torpedo Launcher II
Torpedo Launcher II

Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I


Hammerhead II
Hobgoblin II

Read more: http://eve.battleclinic.com/loadout/66268-Odyssey-L4-PvE-Raven-Navy-Issue.html#ixzz2aKbmpteL
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#6 - 2013-07-28 09:53:39 UTC
If you're doing missions you really should be using Cruise.. Its better...

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Guywood Threepbrush
Motsu Mission Monkeys
#7 - 2013-07-28 12:02:56 UTC
erm yeah.
torps on a CNR is a poor idea.
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2013-07-28 12:10:07 UTC
If its got fitting issues with torps how does that mean it's "begging" to be fit with torps >.>?

Use cruise, they are better.

Art of Explosions
Zhu Dark
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#9 - 2013-07-28 14:32:52 UTC
Those are all good fits. Using cruise does seem to be a better idea. There's only a 12-ish percent difference in raw dps and with the explosion radius and velocity changes it looks like they have more applied dps as well. I've been playing around with a cruise fit and just realized that unless you're using furies, the CN variant launcher does more raw dps than their tech 2 counter part. It comes down to the fact that the rate of fire of the the CN version is more than 10% better than the tech 2 launchers. So even if you have cruise spec V, the CN version still spews missiles faster.

Also, is there much reason to use the RNI any more? I build out a SNI and have exactly the same raw dps with slightly worse application (10% vs cruisers and smaller) with a utility high, utility mid, higher shield/armor, and higher resistances. As far as I can tell the only reduced item is you can carry 3 more backup drones in the RNI.
stoicfaux
#10 - 2013-07-28 15:43:42 UTC
Zhu Dark wrote:

Also, is there much reason to use the RNI any more? I build out a SNI and have exactly the same raw dps with slightly worse application (10% vs cruisers and smaller) with a utility high, utility mid, higher shield/armor, and higher resistances. As far as I can tell the only reduced item is you can carry 3 more backup drones in the RNI.

They're about the same in terms of damage projection and applied damage. The CNR's advantages over the SNI are a free Rigor rig (which isn't really needed if your support skills are at V, but it's still nice when shooting in TP falloff,) a missile velocity bonus that reduces DPS loss from volley miscounting, and the ability to field three sentries versus two for the SNI, assuming you can be bothered to use sentries. Also, the CNR suffers a bit less versus NPC defenders (16.7% loss versus 12.5% loss.)

The SNI's advantages are an easy tank, easy fitting (CNR is tight on CPU due to missile rig CPU penalty,) an extra mid (for prop mods and/or more TPs,) better sensor range and strength, and a six second launcher cycle versus the CNR's eight, which means you can kill faster than the CNR (or at least make up time for miscounted volleys or TP falloff.) Also, tractor beam.

Overall, I would give the CNR a slight to moderate advantage due to the missile velocity bonus.

tl;dr - If the question is CNR versus SNI for level 4s, the answer is "meh."


Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Guywood Threepbrush
Motsu Mission Monkeys
#11 - 2013-07-28 15:47:13 UTC
I would think that the bonuses work out better for missioning with the RNI.
Even if you do the same dps with the SNI it will be at the expense of a lot more ammo.
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#12 - 2013-07-28 15:51:29 UTC
Zhu Dark wrote:
Those are all good fits. Using cruise does seem to be a better idea. There's only a 12-ish percent difference in raw dps and with the explosion radius and velocity changes it looks like they have more applied dps as well. I've been playing around with a cruise fit and just realized that unless you're using furies, the CN variant launcher does more raw dps than their tech 2 counter part. It comes down to the fact that the rate of fire of the the CN version is more than 10% better than the tech 2 launchers. So even if you have cruise spec V, the CN version still spews missiles faster.


You're leaving out one very tiny thing... T2 Fury Cruise missiles... Even with overpriced faction missiles you still do less DPS.

Plus adding 500 mill worth of faction launchers to an already faction/deadspace fit ship is like posting a sign that says "Please... Pretty please gank me!"
stoicfaux
#13 - 2013-07-28 16:13:34 UTC
Guywood Threepbrush wrote:
I would think that the bonuses work out better for missioning with the RNI.
Even if you do the same dps with the SNI it will be at the expense of a lot more ammo.

Actually, the SNI should be cheaper to run in terms of ammo.

I ran the numbers a while ago (there's a thread somewhere,) and the Volleys To Kill numbers on a sub-set of edge case NPCs didn't show an advantage in the CNR's higher volley damage. Meaning, if the CNR could kill it in one or two volleys, then the SNI took one or two volleys as well. If the CNR killed it in three volleys then the SNI killed it in four volleys, which is the same number of missiles (3 * 8 = 24 for the CNR, 4 * 6 = 24 for the SNI.) It also means that the SNI is saving 2-4 seconds against small stuff, and is matching kill times against battleships.

So, if anything, a Raven hull (with both the missile speed and missile RoF bonus) might be better than both the CNR and SNI.

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Roseline Penshar
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#14 - 2013-07-28 21:15:36 UTC
if you use RNI always use 1 rigor and 2 flare for rigs no matter cruise or torp
Goldensaver
Maraque Enterprises
Just let it happen
#15 - 2013-07-28 22:02:06 UTC
Roseline Penshar wrote:
if you use RNI always use 1 rigor and 2 flare for rigs no matter cruise or torp

I disagree. Based on the missile damage formula a stacking penalized Rigor is still better than a stacking penalized flare. Even if you have a bonus to missile explosion radius.
stoicfaux
#16 - 2013-07-28 22:30:01 UTC
Roseline Penshar wrote:
if you use RNI always use 1 rigor and 2 flare for rigs no matter cruise or torp

Nope. 2xRigor and 1 Flare is the best combo for applied damage,

OTOH, the difference should be close enough that it doesn't affect the number of volleys needed to kill.

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Ireland VonVicious
Vicious Trading Company
#17 - 2013-07-29 00:04:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Ireland VonVicious
Don't fit like anything posted in this thread!

If you want to run TP's and disruptors or anything else like that use a cruise fit.

If you want to use a Torp fit, build it for fleet use only. Be the huge DPS and nothing more.
Have 3 or more TP's and 3 or more webs in your fleet. Have logi! No reason to run a torp ship if fleet has no logi.
You just resist/buffer tank/prop mod with a single point or TP. (( Worth full tank if your fleet is worth a damn ))

If you don't have the fleet to fit it this way you should not be using it with torps.

I really hope you are not trying to do this for PvE. Roll
Lojak 2501
Unitum Investigationis et Progressus
#18 - 2013-07-29 02:49:52 UTC
why are ppl fitting 4 BCS?

i was under the impression that 3 was the limit and after that the bonus u get from the 4th isnt enough to cover the lost slot due to diminishing return
Zhu Dark
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#19 - 2013-07-29 02:51:27 UTC
Don't know what I'm going to use it for. I'm just recently back from an extended break from Eve and I'm still trying to catch up with all the changes. I'm really thinking about just wholesaling the hull and switching to the SNI. With the extra mid I can actually fit a point and a web while still having a brick of a tank. I'm sticking with highsec for a while doing missions to relearn how to fly properly and earn a little brainless ISK while I do it.

My secondary ship is a tengu. Even with implants and the kinetic bonus it's still pretty slow kill anything bigger than a cruiser. I'm hoping the BS will have a little more punch while i can just leave the frigs to the drones. BTW, what happened to drone aggro? Even after I pull a group, as soon as i drop drones they seem to be the primary target.
IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome
#20 - 2013-07-29 03:56:34 UTC
Lojak 2501 wrote:
why are ppl fitting 4 BCS?

i was under the impression that 3 was the limit and after that the bonus u get from the 4th isnt enough to cover the lost slot due to diminishing return


This is how I remember it too.

A damage control would be more useful for some extra resists.
Or even though it isn't a drone boat maybe a drone damage amp would help more if missions still have those pesky scramming frigates.

https://soundcloud.com/ibanezlaney
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