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Helios' and their slots

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Duladian
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1 - 2013-07-27 18:59:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Duladian
I was poking around with the Covert Ops ships Helios, Buzzard and the like. When I noticed that the Helios does not have all 3 high slots. The ship gets bonus to two different high slots and the ability to fit a third, yet it does not have enough high slots to fit all 3. Yes, it gets an extra mid slot and low slot, but does that make up for it? I believe it does not! These are ships designed to be able to cloak around scan for sites, analyze/decode and/or scan for ships to drop a covert cyno on someone.

Lets start by having a scenario. These frigates are fast and easy to scan around in, so lets use this to find a good BC/BS in lowsec/nullsec. Once found, you can then warp to them cloaked and decide if its a worthy target to covert cyno a fleet into or not. If you decide that it is then this is where the Helios comes into play wait... maybe it wont be as effective as you thought. This ship can only put 2 high slots so there is only 3 possible combos with the modules. Cyno/Cloak, Cyno/probe, Cloak/probe. Now with these combinations there is only one that is plausible. The Cyno/probe as you can't probe or cyno with out these modules, yet once you land the guy knows your there and you're either dead or hes running as you aren't cloaked.

Now that makes this ship impracticable for the use of covert cynoing a fleet into combat. Yes its still useful for much more uses but this is the only ship of the class that can't do this.

And to answer the first statement that will be said yes you can just fly another ship, but isn't the point of the revamp for ships to give them uses for what they are being designed for. And isn't this ship designed just for this scenario? I believe they should change it. Take away one of the mid/low slots and add a high. They already have a drone with bonus so its not like remove one slot will hamper them to much as they have that bonus. If removing one of the mid slots upsets people could modify the drone bandwidth and capacity and I believe this would appease the masses.

This is just my opinion and does not mean I think the ship is a total bust. I still use it but would like this change.
Scatim Helicon
State War Academy
Caldari State
#2 - 2013-07-27 21:52:36 UTC
For scouting work the Helios is awesome.

Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.
dexington
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#3 - 2013-07-27 21:57:11 UTC
It's the best exploration frig, as long as you don't need the cyno... if you do pick a frig with 3 high slots

I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#4 - 2013-07-27 21:58:48 UTC
It takes 4 days to train in to another covert ops ship that will cater to all of the things you want.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Duladian
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#5 - 2013-07-27 22:09:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Duladian
Mallak Azaria wrote:
It takes 4 days to train in to another covert ops ship


Its closer to 9 days, but that's not the point. As I stated earlier, yes you can just train for another one. But isn't one of the points of being a covert ops ship is the ability to do this.
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings
#6 - 2013-07-27 22:20:01 UTC
I found your problem. You seem to believe that you need to cyno in a fleet to kill a single ship.
GreenSeed
#7 - 2013-07-27 22:56:37 UTC  |  Edited by: GreenSeed
you are confusing a Covops scout with a force recon... if you try to drop with a covops it will get blapped, or it will have to drop offgrid and the locals will gtfo before the gang lands on the target grid. a force recon can cloak, point, ewar, light cyno, survive the blap, and with proper skills it can even probe.

and as far as what cov ops are supposed to do, probe people and scout, the Helios is currently OP, thanks to the stupid amnt of mids for scanning mods and its 4 second warp using a single nano instead of 2 like the buzzard, cheetah and anathema.

people that have been long time users of buzzards and anas are jumping on the helios now.
Duladian
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#8 - 2013-07-27 23:51:01 UTC
Domanique Altares wrote:
I found your problem. You seem to believe that you need to cyno in a fleet to kill a single ship.


I'm not saying that I'm after a single ship. That is just a waste of resources and time on everyones part. Now if you find a group of people running a sites or the like it'd be more reasonable.
Duladian
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#9 - 2013-07-27 23:59:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Duladian
GreenSeed wrote:
you are confusing a Covops scout with a force recon... if you try to drop with a covops it will get blapped, or it will have to drop offgrid and the locals will gtfo before the gang lands on the target grid. a force recon can cloak, point, ewar, light cyno, survive the blap, and with proper skills it can even probe.

and as far as what cov ops are supposed to do, probe people and scout, the Helios is currently OP, thanks to the stupid amnt of mids for scanning mods and its 4 second warp using a single nano instead of 2 like the buzzard, cheetah and anathema.

people that have been long time users of buzzards and anas are jumping on the helios now.


Depending on personal skill of pilots and timing you can use Covert ops ship. I personally use a Arazu as they can point and dampen from a good range making the target a sitting duck.

I have to agree they need to remove a mid slot as they also have the drones. Give them 10 capacity and 10 bandwidth remove a mid slot and I'd be happy with them. Makes them more inline with the others.
Proletariat Tingtango
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#10 - 2013-07-28 00:17:11 UTC
I tend to reroute power to the entire power grid, followers of the apocalypse for life.
Lors Dornick
Kallisti Industries
#11 - 2013-07-28 01:54:34 UTC
Duladian wrote:


Now that makes this ship impracticable for the use of covert cynoing a fleet into combat. Yes its still useful for much more uses but this is the only ship of the class that can't do this.


Since you appear to know exactly what you want from your ship, why are using one that doesn't match your needs?

CCP Greyscale: As to starbases, we agree it's pretty terrible, but we don't want to delay the entire release just for this one factor.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#12 - 2013-07-28 02:04:16 UTC
Duladian wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
It takes 4 days to train in to another covert ops ship


Its closer to 9 days, but that's not the point. As I stated earlier, yes you can just train for another one. But isn't one of the points of being a covert ops ship is the ability to do this.


7 with the right remap & +4 implants, I was thinking of the wrong rank. The point of a covert ops ship is to scout or probe or drop cyno's. You can do all of these things on a Helios, just not at the same time, so if you really want to use all 3 then you need to pick another ship. There is nothing inherently wrong with this.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Scatim Helicon
State War Academy
Caldari State
#13 - 2013-07-28 06:52:26 UTC
A hull that is useful for some things but not others? This is unacceptable CCP, please make all ships exactly the same :( :( :( :( :(

Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.
Blood Viper Johnson
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2013-07-28 06:54:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Blood Viper Johnson
i kill t2 scanner ships with my probe :3 and bombers too http://zkillboard.com/detail/32155193/
Eugene Kerner
TunDraGon
Goonswarm Federation
#15 - 2013-07-31 05:57:22 UTC
Duladian wrote:
I was poking around with the Covert Ops ships Helios, Buzzard and the like. When I noticed that the Helios does not have all 3 high slots. The ship gets bonus to two different high slots and the ability to fit a third, yet it does not have enough high slots to fit all 3. Yes, it gets an extra mid slot and low slot, but does that make up for it? I believe it does not! These are ships designed to be able to cloak around scan for sites, analyze/decode and/or scan for ships to drop a covert cyno on someone.

Lets start by having a scenario. These frigates are fast and easy to scan around in, so lets use this to find a good BC/BS in lowsec/nullsec. Once found, you can then warp to them cloaked and decide if its a worthy target to covert cyno a fleet into or not. If you decide that it is then this is where the Helios comes into play wait... maybe it wont be as effective as you thought. This ship can only put 2 high slots so there is only 3 possible combos with the modules. Cyno/Cloak, Cyno/probe, Cloak/probe. Now with these combinations there is only one that is plausible. The Cyno/probe as you can't probe or cyno with out these modules, yet once you land the guy knows your there and you're either dead or hes running as you aren't cloaked.

Now that makes this ship impracticable for the use of covert cynoing a fleet into combat. Yes its still useful for much more uses but this is the only ship of the class that can't do this.

And to answer the first statement that will be said yes you can just fly another ship, but isn't the point of the revamp for ships to give them uses for what they are being designed for. And isn't this ship designed just for this scenario? I believe they should change it. Take away one of the mid/low slots and add a high. They already have a drone with bonus so its not like remove one slot will hamper them to much as they have that bonus. If removing one of the mid slots upsets people could modify the drone bandwidth and capacity and I believe this would appease the masses.

This is just my opinion and does not mean I think the ship is a total bust. I still use it but would like this change.

choices and consequences

TunDraGon is recruiting! "Also, your boobs [:o] "   CCP Eterne, 2012 "When in doubt...make a diȼk joke." Robin Williams - RIP
Myriad Blaze
Common Sense Ltd
Nulli Secunda
#16 - 2013-07-31 08:20:15 UTC
Duladian wrote:
I was poking around with the Covert Ops ships Helios, Buzzard and the like. When I noticed that the Helios does not have all 3 high slots. The ship gets bonus to two different high slots and the ability to fit a third, yet it does not have enough high slots to fit all 3. Yes, it gets an extra mid slot and low slot, but does that make up for it? I believe it does not! These are ships designed to be able to cloak around scan for sites, analyze/decode and/or scan for ships to drop a covert cyno on someone.

Lets start by having a scenario. These frigates are fast and easy to scan around in, so lets use this to find a good BC/BS in lowsec/nullsec. Once found, you can then warp to them cloaked and decide if its a worthy target to covert cyno a fleet into or not. If you decide that it is then this is where the Helios comes into play wait... maybe it wont be as effective as you thought. This ship can only put 2 high slots so there is only 3 possible combos with the modules. Cyno/Cloak, Cyno/probe, Cloak/probe. Now with these combinations there is only one that is plausible. The Cyno/probe as you can't probe or cyno with out these modules, yet once you land the guy knows your there and you're either dead or hes running as you aren't cloaked.

Now that makes this ship impracticable for the use of covert cynoing a fleet into combat. Yes its still useful for much more uses but this is the only ship of the class that can't do this.

And to answer the first statement that will be said yes you can just fly another ship, but isn't the point of the revamp for ships to give them uses for what they are being designed for. And isn't this ship designed just for this scenario? I believe they should change it. Take away one of the mid/low slots and add a high. They already have a drone with bonus so its not like remove one slot will hamper them to much as they have that bonus. If removing one of the mid slots upsets people could modify the drone bandwidth and capacity and I believe this would appease the masses.

This is just my opinion and does not mean I think the ship is a total bust. I still use it but would like this change.

The Helios is the best ship for exploration because of its slot layout. And you want to change that because you can't do in a Helios what you could do better in another ship?
ElQuirko
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2013-07-31 11:12:08 UTC  |  Edited by: ElQuirko
Because for some awful reason CCP have repurposed the covops frigs as exploration fits that just so happen to be able to be fit as wolfpack ships as well. The extra highslot is to balance out the fact that it can pack a drone; with one blaster and that drone it can get over 100 dps as well as a covops cloak.

Dodixie > Hek
ISD Cura Ursus
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#18 - 2013-08-01 19:31:49 UTC
OK, moved topic to ships and modules.

I also deleted a post that had kill report links in it.

please note from the forum rules:
"34. Posting of kill reports outside of the Crime & Punishment forum channel is prohibited.

More often than not, posts of this nature are made with inflammatory intent and are designed to promote trolling and flaming. Therefore, the posting of links to kill reports from any third party site, or the direct copy-pasting of kill reports from in game is prohibited on all forum channels of the EVE Online Forums, with the exception of the Crime & Punishment Channel.
Specific rules regarding the omission of pilot names apply in this instance. Further details can be found in the rules stickies in the Crime & Punishment forum channel."

ISD Cura Ursus

Lieutenant Commander

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department
Angelique Duchemin
Team Evil
#19 - 2013-08-01 19:33:14 UTC
The missing cyno isn't the problem. It's the missing salvager that is the problem.

The very sun of heaven seemed distorted when viewed through the polarising miasma welling out from this sea-soaked perversion, and twisted menace and suspense lurked leeringly in those crazily elusive angles of carven rock where a second glance shewed concavity after the first shewed convexity.

Praxis Ginimic
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2013-08-02 03:41:02 UTC
The helios has a bonuses drone that will eat any other cov-ops for breakfast.
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